White Nationalist leads torch-bearing protestors against removal of confederate statue

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

43 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

we need to take down that vietnam memorial too, we lost that war.

Good luck with that.

[smilesammich 10,727]

14 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

You make a controversial argument, but one for another topic.

 

In line with this thread however, if you want to attempt to desecrate the memory of those who died in Vietnam, you should propose that we build statues to all the communist leaders against whom they were fighting.

 

Good luck with that. You may find a few who might disagree with you.

 

 

build statues to all the communist leaders and take a good long look at how well we've taken care of our vietnam vets, imo that latter is far more important that any memorial. 

 

i think it's important to note that while the some of the protesters might actually be concerned about the removal of robert e lee's statue, spencer and his crew do not give a damn about the statue or preserving history. they're using the proposed removal of the statue as a springboard to promote white pride and to create some space to ease in their white supremacist agenda. virginia has quite a few monuments to robert e lee. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memorials_to_Robert_E._Lee

a little off topic, but i went to 4th and 5th grade at "stonewall jackson elementary school"

[smilesammich 10,727]

10 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Nope Hillary supporters are 1st

i think you're going to have to wait about a 150 years to see if that's accurate..

[Ban Hammer 12,836]

14 minutes ago, ccneat said:

Good luck with that.

wait about 150 years.......

[smilesammich 10,727]

just like you can't compare colombine with the us civil war, you can't compare vietnam with the us civil war just because we lost vietnam. 'we' as a country didn't 'lose' the civil war. 

 

civil war history is everywhere where i am, you can find a reenactment of some sort going on just about any weekend during spring/summer. there are historical markers and buildings preserved, etc etc. harpers ferry west virginia is one of my favorite places to go for civil war history, although i'm sure spencer is not a fan of john brown. i'd put big money on it.

 

 

[yuna628 9,528]

1 hour ago, Ban Hammer said:

we need to take down that vietnam memorial too, we lost that war.

That's an impressive red herring you caught.

 

13 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

build statues to all the communist leaders and take a good long look at how well we've taken care of our vietnam vets, imo that latter is far more important that any memorial. 

 

i think it's important to note that while the some of the protesters might actually be concerned about the removal of robert e lee's statue, spencer and his crew do not give a damn about the statue or preserving history. they're using the proposed removal of the statue as a springboard to promote white pride and to create some space to ease in their white supremacist agenda. virginia has quite a few monuments to robert e lee. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memorials_to_Robert_E._Lee

a little off topic, but i went to 4th and 5th grade at "stonewall jackson elementary school"

Of course. I think Spencer just wants a safe space, maybe he should create some sort of private museum for all the 'heritage' he'd like to save.

[Cyberfx1024 7,978]

1 hour ago, CaliCat said:

 

The statues and memorials, as do the confederate flag, are symbols of a dark period in American history. True, they are part of the country's history, but these statues were erected for and represent an ideal that is contrary to what our country states it is in its Constitution. Yes, there were slaves when the document was written, but how can anyone take our country seriously when we state that all men are created equal, yet, some are less equal than others? That type of thought has no place in today's America.

 

The slavery issue is not an anti-white-men proposal as you state. Black people owned slaves, and it doesn't make slavery any less inexcusable for that. I'd propose then that we take down the statues and do away with the flag no matter who owned the slaves. Whoever fought on the confederate side ended up in the wrong side of history, no different than those who fought on the side of Nazi Germany in WWII - and yet we don't see statues of Hitler or any of his men in Paris or Warsaw, or even Rome, that was part of the axis.

 

My 2-cent worth is that what you call an identity crisis in the south is the process of modernization and industrialization that many states are undergoing. The south is catching up with the present and becoming more educated, affluent, and better equipped to compete in the modern world. It has nothing to do with losing an identity. It's the joining the rest of the country in the 21st century. 

 

In terms of heritage, wouldn't it be a better one to pass on to your children and their children that you once stood on the side of what is right, human, and decent, by calling out on these symbols of a country that no longer exists, and for the better of the entire United States? Just a thought...

 

I agree somewhat in what you just said but I want to add this... Hitler was did not fight on the side of France, Poland, or even Italy before he became the leader of Germany. Robert E. Lee was a decorated field commander for the United States Army before the Civil War. He stated numerous times that the hardest decision in his life was to hang up his US Army uniform and put on the Confederate uniform. But he was a big fan of state's rights at the time, and how he could not ever go against Virginia. 

 

I have always passed on to my children that you need to stand up for what is right no matter what and fight for what is decent in this world. But in order to do that you can not just go and white wash history that you don't like or even try and forget about it. That does not help at all when you are trying to raise the moral consciousness of children and society as whole. That is what gets me angry is that the Liberal PC Leftists want us to forget everything about history but their narrative on what they think history is and what should be taught in schools. 

Edited May 15, 2017 by cyberfx1024

[Cyberfx1024 7,978]

37 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

build statues to all the communist leaders and take a good long look at how well we've taken care of our vietnam vets, imo that latter is far more important that any memorial. 

 

i think it's important to note that while the some of the protesters might actually be concerned about the removal of robert e lee's statue, spencer and his crew do not give a damn about the statue or preserving history. they're using the proposed removal of the statue as a springboard to promote white pride and to create some space to ease in their white supremacist agenda. virginia has quite a few monuments to robert e lee. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memorials_to_Robert_E._Lee

a little off topic, but i went to 4th and 5th grade at "stonewall jackson elementary school"

That's like what I said before they are the fringe element on the Right. They don't care about the history or the heritage of anything, they just want to further their narrative no matter how hateful it is. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

2 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

That's like what I said before they are the fringe element on the Right. They don't care about the history or the heritage of anything, they just want to further their narrative no matter how hateful it is. 

and like i said, i see confederate flags everyday. flown on the beds of pickups, in people's yards. the city just voted to remove the confederate flag from our city seal..http://www.your4state.com/news/confederate-battle-flag-is-no-longer-part-of-the-city-of-winchesters-official-seal/238182267, the last of the schools around here weren't desegregated till the EIGHTIES, if you can believe it. anyway.. civil war history is a very prominent feature of this area. that being said, for every history buff who loves taking a metal detector out in his property to try and find a civil war bullet, you've a racist who loves to drive around town with his confederate flags flying on the bed of his truck screaming at cars 'the south will rise again'. someone says that around here, they're not talking about heritage or history. they're talking about putting whites back on top, giving them something to be proud of. non racist confederate flag flyers might not like it, but, the confederate flag has in fact become a symbol of white pride.

[smilesammich 10,727]

20 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

I have always passed on to my children that you need to stand up for what is right no matter what and fight for what is decent in this world. But in order to do that you can not just go and white wash history that you don't like or even try and forget about it. That does not help at all when you are trying to raise the moral consciousness of children and society as whole. That is what gets me angry is that the Liberal PC Leftists want us to forget everything about history but their narrative on what they think history is and what should be taught in schools. 

please give me an example of where pc leftists are revising history to fit a 'narrative' concerning the civil war. i had no idea this was occurring, and you'd be hard pressed to find evidence of it here. i'm interested to see how california handles this part of history, cause out here there's no escape or rewriting it. 

that's why i love going to harper's ferry, john brown's raid wasn't really discussed to much in history class - although we did go on multiple field trips to the wax museum etc over my school career..i always felt like john brown was a white person from that time that i could be proud of, because he is a perfect example of standing up for what he felt was right and fighting for what he knew was decent. i don't get that vibe from robert e lee. 

[IAMX 3,055]

3 hours ago, yuna628 said:

The seditionists lost the Civil War and had to go through an extensive and harsh reconciliation process to pay for what they had done. So ask yourself why southern governments choose to still 'honor' it? We are a United America, not a United-except for those states that still keep hanging onto the past. Their ancestors knew what the war was about and the causes of it. The fact is people seem to become a little triggered when they have to face reality of the past, so it's comforting to think of other excuses to make things a little more palatable to them. Falsehoods in textbooks only get you so far, and believe me I grew up having to ''learn'' from a good many of them.

 

S'ok. I'm not here for armchair therapy. The fact is you're never going to get someone that is convinced it's all about 'heritage' (what heritage exactly..? because if you keep probing on this issue it gets more and more disconnected and weak). If a good chunk of America could manage to move on we could have healed as a nation long ago. Imagine that huh?

 

Yep a cheesy confederate flag made with the blood of true patriots... er I mean, made in China. And yes, with everything else I agree.

Posts like this actually help me understand why people from other parts of the country despise Californians. Not only because those on the left like to revise history to fit the "white devil" theory (much of my mothers side, that isn't in Germany, live in the South, so I'm fairly knee-deep into that culture the left like to target), but because you can't have rational discussion with people who've convinced themselves it's some holy crusade against racism. The fact that this is what you believe stands between the USA healing and doesn't, you've gone off the deep end.

 

2 hours ago, Ban Hammer said:

we need to take down that vietnam memorial too, we lost that war.

[IAMX 3,055]

50 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

That's like what I said before they are the fringe element on the Right. They don't care about the history or the heritage of anything, they just want to further their narrative no matter how hateful it is. 

I can tell especially with yuna's post, this is 100% about revising history to fit the narrative. The south must have been amazingly rich slave owners where everyone had plantations and thus were overwhelmingly gripping onto their ability to have slaves. This is the narrative the left tries to hold onto, and even the argument they try to make today about culture, much like the attitude in California where, when I speak to a fellow German in either Hochdeutsch or Boarisch, or if I'm listening to German music, I must be a Nazi. If all the left are going to do is try and make other cultures akin to racism, they can **** themselves. I have no tolerance for that kind of stupidity. The left have been way too used to getting their way when they invoke the "outrage", "dats racist", etc. cards. I think it's time to stuff it right where the sun doesn't shine.

Edited May 15, 2017 by IAMX

[smilesammich 10,727]

love to see some actual links to back up this revisionist 'white devil' history.. where is this happening?  

[CaliCat 3,957]

1 hour ago, smilesammich said:

build statues to all the communist leaders and take a good long look at how well we've taken care of our vietnam vets, imo that latter is far more important that any memorial. 

 

i think it's important to note that while the some of the protesters might actually be concerned about the removal of robert e lee's statue, spencer and his crew do not give a damn about the statue or preserving history. they're using the proposed removal of the statue as a springboard to promote white pride and to create some space to ease in their white supremacist agenda. virginia has quite a few monuments to robert e lee. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memorials_to_Robert_E._Lee

a little off topic, but i went to 4th and 5th grade at "stonewall jackson elementary school"

 

I agree, but that doesn't belong in this thread, though. You'll get no lip from me on that argument. But I don't think our fallen vets should be fodder for trolling on this or any site. 

[CaliCat 3,957]

1 hour ago, cyberfx1024 said:

I agree somewhat in what you just said but I want to add this... Hitler was did not fight on the side of France, Poland, or even Italy before he became the leader of Germany. Robert E. Lee was a decorated field commander for the United States Army before the Civil War. He stated numerous times that the hardest decision in his life was to hang up his US Army uniform and put on the Confederate uniform. But he was a big fan of state's rights at the time, and how he could not ever go against Virginia. 

 

I have always passed on to my children that you need to stand up for what is right no matter what and fight for what is decent in this world. But in order to do that you can not just go and white wash history that you don't like or even try and forget about it. That does not help at all when you are trying to raise the moral consciousness of children and society as whole. That is what gets me angry is that the Liberal PC Leftists want us to forget everything about history but their narrative on what they think history is and what should be taught in schools. 

 

I see your point, and to that I would then echo the opinion of another poster who said these statues and symbols should be places in a museum, or in a consecrated place where they belong. There are confederate cemeteries in many places, and maybe that should be a better place. The problem we have is not with the history, but with a group of people who unlike you interpret their heritage as their mission. Even the most southern of all southerners should be able to realize the ideals behind the Confederacy were less than just, otherwise they would still hold true today. Time is the ultimate litmus test. The reason we don't have statues of Hitler in Germany is because his legacy couldn't possibly stand on its own today any more that it did 90 years ago. The same is true of the Confederate cause. The ideals it represented are far more objectionable today than they were back in the day. Surely you are one of those people who can see this distinction, but many in our country feel the south and the Confederacy should rise, and my question to them, would be how that would the values of slavery and white-male privilege possibly make the world a better place. And for the record it's not that I'm against all-white-male privilege because it is white, but because it can only exist at the exclusion of the rights and privileges of every single American who doesn't fit that bill.