Dylann Roof Sentenced To Death

[OriZ 3,157]

1 hour ago, Eric-Pris said:

The alternative to the death penalty is work camps.  I'm against life in prison because it's too easy.  TV's, pool tables, workout equipment, computers, etc. etc.  Some of these are things that righteous people don't have on the "outside" because they can't afford them and these animals get it for free.  I'd support abolishing the death penalty in exchange for work camps for everybody, not just capital cases.  You do hard labor to pay your debt to society.  And not for pay like they do now (even though prisons make very little, it's still too much, they don't deserve it.).

 

 

 

Have you ever tried spending life in prison that you think it's so easy? Hell, why life...try spending 5 years, let me know how it went.

[bcking 3,157]

1 hour ago, Eric-Pris said:

 

Not true, it's something that the anti-death penalty bleeding hearts came up with.  A death penalty case requires a lot more time in the court (with hearings, appeals and more appeals) and they claim that it costs the government more money.  But it doesn't.  The judges, prosecutors, court staff are still going to be working and getting paid whether or not the death penalty case is there.  So where's the extra expense?  A bunch of hokum...

 

People use that argument for all sorts of things. Why does it matter if I burn fossil fuels? They fuels have already been collected and are waiting for me at the gas station. It's not like they aren't there if I don't show up. Why does it matter if I buy fur that was sourced unethically? The animal was already killed and the fur coat was already made whether I bought it or not.

 

Unfortunately the argument just isn't logical. While yes on that given day the judge/procesutors etc... will all still be working regardless, in the grand scheme of things if we have less cases, that would effect the number of staff required, the number of cases needed to go to a judge etc... It would reduce costs.

 

That being said, I think the better argument is the fact that prison for life can get very bloody expensive. Regardless of the extra "administrative costs", I have a hard time believing that those make up for a life sentence of say 60 years for a 20 something year old mass murderer. The life sentence would surely cost more.

 

As for the question of whether the victim's families should choose - I personally think yes, but I agree that logistically it just doesn't work. I would also say if I were a victim's family member I would want the killer to serve life in prison with no contact with the outside world (or as limited as possible) in maximum security with no option of parole. I want that even though I'm not related to a victim because I think it is a greater punishment.

 

Also, I personally see a distinction between a case that is fairly black and white, where someone was arrested at the scene of the crime, holding the gun, covered in blood, with eye witnesses compared to even a case of mass murder where the person was found weeks later. If you are caught in the act I don't really think you are "innocent until proven guilty". I know legally you still are, but I always find it crazy when I read news about an "alleged" killer who was caught at the scene carrying the assault rifle used to kill everyone.

[smilesammich 10,727]

just to clarify, i don't think the victim's families should be able to choose, i was just wondering how much weight people put on the wishes of those most affected by the crime..

i realize that roof is clearly guilty, however, redemption (from grief and loss) and peace are not going to come from his death for those still suffering his actions. i think that's sort of important. keeping him alive actually gives them a better chance of getting to a better place - eventually.

[Eric-Pris 1,602]

41 minutes ago, bcking said:

People use that argument for all sorts of things. Why does it matter if I burn fossil fuels? They fuels have already been collected and are waiting for me at the gas station. It's not like they aren't there if I don't show up. Why does it matter if I buy fur that was sourced unethically? The animal was already killed and the fur coat was already made whether I bought it or not.

 

Unfortunately the argument just isn't logical. While yes on that given day the judge/procesutors etc... will all still be working regardless, in the grand scheme of things if we have less cases, that would effect the number of staff required, the number of cases needed to go to a judge etc... It would reduce costs.

Wrong.  It's very logical, especially when it come to a bureaucracy like our government.  There would not be less staff, nor less costs. 

[bcking 3,157]

19 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

just to clarify, i don't think the victim's families should be able to choose, i was just wondering how much weight people put on the wishes of those most affected by the crime..

i realize that roof is clearly guilty, however, redemption (from grief and loss) and peace are not going to come from his death for those still suffering his actions. i think that's sort of important. keeping him alive actually gives them a better chance of getting to a better place - eventually.

I'm not sure him being alive or dead will make any difference for the victims. I don't expect them to ever "visit" with him in prison, so not sure what being alive would do to help them?

[smilesammich 10,727]

10 minutes ago, bcking said:

I'm not sure him being alive or dead will make any difference for the victims. I don't expect them to ever "visit" with him in prison, so not sure what being alive would do to help them?

it isn't about speculating if they'd visit, but about ending his ability to suffer consequence and the victims (i'm considering surviving family victims) ability to obtain closure - if they choose.  i've read of killers/victims who ultimately have a relationship of sorts or at minimum are able to gain some closure from communication (correspondence not necessarily visits) years and years after the fact. killing a murderer is just too easy for me. death is the ultimate freedom for roof. he wants it.

[OriZ 3,157]

2 hours ago, smilesammich said:

just to clarify, i don't think the victim's families should be able to choose, i was just wondering how much weight people put on the wishes of those most affected by the crime..

i realize that roof is clearly guilty, however, redemption (from grief and loss) and peace are not going to come from his death for those still suffering his actions. i think that's sort of important. keeping him alive actually gives them a better chance of getting to a better place - eventually.

Agreed

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

All this talk about cost associated with jailing this scumbag and which sentence is worse are boring me. If he is locked away all that will be remembered is 15 mins of fame for murdering all those folks. Unless of course we have a live cam in his cell 24/7 and get to see a daily visit from his 6'5 300 lb jail boyfriend. 

 

This is a case where there is a zero percent chance he did not do it. We can all agree on that.

 

Fry Him on pay Pay per view and move on.

 

Why.. Because instead of the next copy cat seeing all the attention he gets, they will see him screaming in pain, crying like a sissy, and soiling his pants as he gets fried on live TV.

 

Then his death will serve a public good and reduce all this copy cat stupidity.  

 

Give the Millions in PPV royalties to the families 

Edited January 14, 2017 by Nature Boy Flair

[Daisy.Chain 317]

4 hours ago, bcking said:

People use that argument for all sorts of things. Why does it matter if I burn fossil fuels? They fuels have already been collected and are waiting for me at the gas station. It's not like they aren't there if I don't show up. Why does it matter if I buy fur that was sourced unethically? The animal was already killed and the fur coat was already made whether I bought it or not.

 

Unfortunately the argument just isn't logical. While yes on that given day the judge/procesutors etc... will all still be working regardless, in the grand scheme of things if we have less cases, that would effect the number of staff required, the number of cases needed to go to a judge etc... It would reduce costs.

 

That being said, I think the better argument is the fact that prison for life can get very bloody expensive. Regardless of the extra "administrative costs", I have a hard time believing that those make up for a life sentence of say 60 years for a 20 something year old mass murderer. The life sentence would surely cost more.

 

As for the question of whether the victim's families should choose - I personally think yes, but I agree that logistically it just doesn't work. I would also say if I were a victim's family member I would want the killer to serve life in prison with no contact with the outside world (or as limited as possible) in maximum security with no option of parole. I want that even though I'm not related to a victim because I think it is a greater punishment.

 

Also, I personally see a distinction between a case that is fairly black and white, where someone was arrested at the scene of the crime, holding the gun, covered in blood, with eye witnesses compared to even a case of mass murder where the person was found weeks later. If you are caught in the act I don't really think you are "innocent until proven guilty". I know legally you still are, but I always find it crazy when I read news about an "alleged" killer who was caught at the scene carrying the assault rifle used to kill everyone.

I agree that the case was black and white.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

6 minutes ago, Daisy.Chain said:

I agree that the case was black and white.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

5 hours ago, Daisy.Chain said:

I agree that the case was black and white.

I see what you did there...

[Nitas_man 3,100]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 9:49 PM, OriZ said:

 

I could give you a really long list of cases where it was so "clear" that it only took 20 years to figure out they were innocent. Law should apply equally to everyone and everyone deserves an appeal. 

I understand that.  I believe we both agree that this one was far beyond reasonable doubt.

[Daisy.Chain 317]

10 hours ago, IDWAF said:

I see what you did there...

[Transborderwife 4,666]

Perhaps we should ask the pastor what the proper punishment is...oh wait...

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/families-dylann-roof-victims-address-killer-sentencing-article-1.2943481

 

this broke my heart