What to do differently for second try (B-2)?

[DaveSana 13]

Regarding possible babysitting activities as a reason for denial -

I suspect that there are plenty of foreigners who can get a tourist visa, even if their offspring are having kids.

If you are a wealthy, well-to-do Brit, or even Filipino, and you have significant ties in the PHs, that could be persuasive.

Whether the visitor babysits or not, and some might, is not really the concern, in their regards. And I am sure if they did babysit they would not be getting paid for it.

The problem is not so much that someone might babysit (for free or otherwise) or not, it is that they might not return home as required.

That they have little to return to the PHs for, if their ties are not strong enough.

THAT is a bigger consideration, in my view.

Hoping you get a more favorable Consular Officer... Meh....I would not count on it.

But if you guys can sponsor her as an alien relative - if either of you actually want that - then, if you can afford it, that might be a more successful approach.

Just one thought. (I have others.)

Best,

Dave

Edited December 29, 2016 by DaveSana

[Transborderwife 4,666]

Regarding possible babysitting activities as a reason for denial -

I suspect that there are plenty of foreigners who can get a tourist visa, even if their offspring are having kids.

If you are a wealthy, well-to-do Brit, or even Filipino, and you have significant ties in the PHs, that could be persuasive.

Whether the visitor babysits or not, and some might, is not really the concern, in their regards. And I am sure if they did babysit they would not be getting paid for it.

The problem is not so much that someone might babysit (for free or otherwise) or not, it is that they might not return home as required.

That they have little to return to the PHs for, if their ties are not strong enough.

THAT is a bigger consideration, in my view.

Hoping you get a more favorable Consular Officer... Meh....I would not count on it.

But if you guys can sponsor her as an alien relative - if either of you actually want that - then, if you can afford it, that might be a more successful approach.

Just one thought. (I have others.)

Best,

Dave

wrong. a great many have been turned aroundat poe or visa interviews stating that they're there to babysit. I did myself after myhusbands mother died.

[DaveSana 13]

Not WRONG...nuanced.

If THAT is what was said - "I am here to babysit", then they should not get a visa period, much less make it to the POE.

"Babysitiing" is NOT an acceptable principal activity for B visas. Clearly.

If THAT is the reason for the visa, it must be denied.

But that does not mean that a person CANNOT babysit while in the country, for a day, an evening, or longer.

It is not about babysitting. It is about the reason for entry, and ties.

Dave

Edited December 29, 2016 by DaveSana

[KierenHby 897]

Whatever differently an applicant wants to do for the 'next' try, why didn't they think of it at the most previous failed attempt? Having seen many such threads, it just comes across as a ruse to show a change of circumstance when there really isn't.

[DaveSana 13]

And I agree with KierenHby (again).

It is not about luck, getting an easy consular, or spin.

It is about circumstances, ties,...

Dave

[Transborderwife 4,666]

Not WRONG...nuanced.

If THAT is what was said - "I am here to babysit", then they should not get a visa period, much less make it to the POE.

"Babysitiing" is NOT an acceptable principal activity for B visas. Clearly.

If THAT is the reason for the visa, it must be denied.

But that does not mean that a person CANNOT babysit while in the country, for a day, an evening, or longer.

It is not about babysitting. It is about the reason for entry, and ties.

Dave

I'm from Canada so I didn't need to apply for a visa we have a defacto b1/2 on entry. some grandparents already have visas as well. I've readarticles about visas revoked for something as simple as hanging a picture frame or painting. it does happen

[DaveSana 13]

To be even more specific -

It is about:

"For what purposes do you seek a visa?"

"For what purposes do you seek entry?"

"What will you do while here?"

"What will ensure that you will return home as required?"

"What overcomes the presumption that you are, in fact, an intending immigrant?"

That is how I look at it, regarding B visas.

Best,

Dave

[DaveSana 13]

Yes, clearly.

See the post I was making while you were making your last one.

And yes, I have been to Canada, many times, over many decades.

(I have been to 24 countries and have lived in 10 countries, with and without diplomatic passports.)

(Might be working on "immigration issues" as a senior government administrator in the next administration. We shall see.)

I like this forum. Gives me a chance to see what people are thinking, doing, etc. and gives me a chance to get feedback, opinions.

Learn some stuff.

Share some experiences that might be helpful to others.

Cheers,

Dave

Edited December 29, 2016 by DaveSana

[DaveSana 13]

@TransBorderWife

Yes, if your reason for seeking entry IS to babysit, then denial is appropriate, because that is a service that is not afforded to B Visa, or VWP, visitors.

In much the same way that a person with a B visa can attend work-related meetings, but once they start DOING the work, they are in violation.

To meet with co-workers, and discuss work to be done, is allowed, to some extent. To sit there and DO the work might very well not be, depending on the very nature of the work to be done, or activity to be performed.

And don't get me started on what happens if you are getting paid to do it! hee hee

How I view it

There are valid, supported activities for each visa type. As long as that is not violated, great.

When one starts providing "services" that is an issue for B visa holders (and their VWP equivalents). And it can be a reason for denial of entry (Visa holders or VWP beneficiaries), or total denial of visas (visa applicants).

Just because you have a visa does not mean you can do whatever you like, clearly. We all pretty much understand that, I suspect.

The question comes down to who can get permission to enter, what do they plan on doing while here, what they actually do while here, and will they leave as required.

There are probably a number of people who read this form, who have lots of experience, and maybe are immigration lawyers, so that is great.

More than happy to hear what people think, their experiences, etc.

Cheers,

Dave

Edited December 29, 2016 by DaveSana

[Unlockable 7,306]

Even if the intent is legitimately go on vacation, if found that babysitting MAY occur is grounds for refusal. Read the story below. A German teen just wanted to spend the summer with relatives. But because they found out she would be occasionally babysitting, the officer denied her entry.

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2015/08/babysitter_versus_the_border_p.html

Edited December 29, 2016 by NuestraUnion

[DaveSana 13]

Thanks NuestraUnion, will read it.

.....

Just read it.

Here are my thoughts -

The person in the article stated, under interrogation, that she would - "occasionally babysit for Holmes and her co-workers at Oberlin College".

The person admitted, honestly to her credit, that she had offered to occasionally babysit for a number of people. That, for me, is not allowed.

Here is some of that nuance I mentioned -

Say, you go to visit your son. He has a wife and newborn.

Say, while he is out bowling one evening, his wife has to run to the store, for, say ketchup.

Are you allowed to "babysit" the newborn, for an hour or so?

Or are you required to insist that one of them take the baby because for you to be left alone with the baby constitutes "illegal babysitting activities".

I think if you offer babysitting "services", in general, as the person in the article offered to do, that is not allowed under the B visa.

But the actual "act" of babysitting is not the issue, here. What is at issue is an activity...a service...is being envisioned and even offered to others.

That is the rub. The nuance.

I do not think legislative intent is to disallow a grandparent from sitting alone with their grandchild for some period - one definition of "babysitting".

I do think offering to do that as a part of your planned activity, and offer it to others - as a "service" - raises a flag, and can get you denied.

Others' views are most welcome.

Best,

Dave

Edited December 29, 2016 by DaveSana

[David & Diana R 1,005]

My guess is that her self-employment status was unacceptable unless she had records to prove filing of income taxes, income reports, etc... On the other hand if she was employed by a large company for a reasonable period of time and was making good money in the Philippines she might get by. She would want to show that her employer wanted her back upon her return to the Philippines.

[DaveSana 13]

@David & Zoila

Yep, as mentioned: TIES. CIRCUMSTANCES (financial and otherwise), etc.

After living in SE Asia for eight years, I have quite a few Filipina friends. Some make $300K/year plus.

They could get, and have gotten, visas, and can spend, and have spent, months in the US.

If they wanted to spend "some alone time" with their grandchild while in the states, would we really start deportation proceedings against them?

Not really.

They have significant ties to the PH. In terms of jobs, careers, property, assets, income, friends, a life, etc.

Ties that many would not believe, a priori, that they will abandon willy-nilly.

All that is considered when one applies for a B Visa, or for entry at the port.

Now, if one of them decided that they would offer themselves as an au pair on-and-off for a few months, that would be an issue.

Why? Because that is offering a service. One that people get paid to do in this country.

While babysitting might be "vacation" from their "real job" for them, some people in America actually DO that AS their job.

The set of activities that are allowed while here does have constraints.

Even if you enjoy doing it, and consider it fun, and don't get paid, that, alone, would not make it allowed under the law.

So, although the person in the article was willing to do it for free, and for fun, that does not make it okay.

Sorry to see her reaction to ever applying again, and possibly ever visiting. Maybe she will change her mind or plans one day.

That is part of how I view it, at least at this time.

Dave

Edited December 29, 2016 by DaveSana