K1 or CR1? American Woman Engaged to Indian Man (merged)

[Kastrs 723]

Ok so I just wrote you a very lengthy response to your most recent post, which I see was deleted so my comments did not go through.

A summary of what I said:

Make sure you have a copy of your divorce decree and his divorce decree

Yes you can get married in India or a 3rd country, although I am not clear on why it would be a bad idea for him to marry in India again

Yes you should expect the USEM to apply the same level of scrutiny as the German Embassy

It would be very beneficial for you to meet at least his parents (and definitely more facetime with your fiance before filing), if you are uncomfortable going to Kashmir meet in a more touristy location in India

If you have any questions on desi mixed marriage or Islam feel free to PM me

Hi Zoe. Thank you so much for replying. He says that under Sharia Law in India (and he has spoken to his lawyer about this), all he has to do is sign a document stating that he divorces her stating the reason (her affair), and that's it. It can then be stamped by the Indian government as proof of divorce (marriage papers were signed only by/through external affairs). He got back to Kashmir literally just a few days ago, and will be telling them about me soon. (Introducing a "girlfriend" early on is not seen in his culture; it takes time to get to know someone well enough to trust introduce them to your parents who have lived in a village with those cultural values for so long!) They accepted his ex enough that she and her son moved and lived there in India with him for awhile, so... But I will definitely have met them (on Skype) prior to applying for ANY visa.

As for what you will need for his divorce from the USCIS website:

Marriage Certificates

Available. All marriages in India can be registered with the appropriate government authority. While Hindus and Muslims do not always register marriages, marriages by Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, or Sikhs may be voluntarily registered under the Hindu Marriage Act of 1955. This Act does not apply to Muslims, Parsis, Jews, or Christians, who may register their marriages under the Special Marriage Act of 1954 or the Christian Marriage Act. Marriage certificates for marriages registered under these Acts may be obtained from the offices of Government Registrar of Marriages, which are located in the headquarters of each district. The certificate will be issued by the Registrar only if the bride and groom personally appear before the official and pay the required fee.

A certificate of marriage between Muslims is usually issued by the officiant (“Kazi”) who performed the ceremony. The document is in the Urdu language, and a certified English translation is acceptable. Certificates of marriages between Christians are usually obtainable from church records, which are also acceptable.

Note: A document termed as "Marriage Agreement" or "Deed of Marriage" to live as man and wife (under the Registration Act of 1908) is not confirmation of a marriage solemnized legally under the Indian Marriage Acts now in force. Such a document does not confer upon the contracting parties’ legal marital status under the law.

Same-sex marriages are not legally recognized in India.

Divorce Certificates

Available. Certified copies of divorce decrees of Christian, Hindu, Parsi, and Sikh divorces can be obtained from the courts of jurisdiction. A certificate from the Kazi or the head of the Jamaat must document divorce between Muslims.

Note that some Hindu communities practice divorce by mutual consent outside of the judicial system, resulting in a “divorce deed.” However, only a final “divorce decree,” obtained through a court, is proof of final dissolution of a Hindu marriage.

[Kastrs 723]

I've heard (per my "friend's" knowledge and experience with the visa process as it pertains to India specifically) that even getting an Indian here on a tourist/visitor visa is a challenge... I don't know... It's just what she's told me has been her and "400+ other members" experience with the fiancé visa. Maybe India is as different and difficult as she says...

Do not bother with the tourist visa application when your intent is for him to move to the US anyway

I do not believe that a K1 is particularly difficult from India, but Kashmir could definitely cause additional scrutiny, and if I were you I would anticipate AP after your visa interview

Yes the USEM can/does do field investigations (not frequently, but they happen)

[Kastrs 723]

I see some issues up front. He is 7 years younger (is that common in his culture?),

a bit of a red flag here, but sort of depends on your age range, if you are both of child bearing age then this should not cause an issue, normal for desi culture would be the woman no more than 2 or 3 years max older than the man

different religions (is that common in his culture?),

No this is not common in desi culture, but not impossible to overcome (with lots of facetime)

a very short relationship (only 6 months and already engaged),

This is not abnormal at all, it is common in Islam and desi culture to have a quick engagement

He is not divorced from his previous wife who also filed a petition for him.

This is a red flag for sure, make sure you have plenty of relationship evidence/facetime

In some countries and cultures I can see this being an issue. I do not know if this would be an issue in your fiance's culture or not. Perhaps post this in the regional India forum because I think a lot of your questions can be answered there with respect to what is considered 'normal' in his culture.

Good luck

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

I would say marry and file a CR1 and listen to the couples who went before you and are there to share their experiences.

A group of 400 members should give a good idea how many are denied with a K1, I have seen quite a few myself on VJ.
You can take the K1 chance if you are prepared to re file with a spousal visa.
You will likely be in AP for weeks or months.
Field investigations are done at times and there is probably even more scrutiny than with the German embassy.
Some embassies share data on applicants in their systems so they may very well be aware of more than what you think.
I know the UK - US does for sure.
Visit often and stay as long as you can, it is a big red flag that he is not divorced yet, so take your time for another year or so

before you file whatever visa you decide to go with. The fact that you are his 2. wife not from his country and without a gap of
some years as a believable gap, may be perceived that he just wants immigration benefits and that the marriage is not bona fide.

We also had a 5 year long visa journey, were in AP for 16 months and then denied and had to re file so I know what you may

be facing. Again, listen to your FB group who know the culture well and have been there done that.

Take it very slow.

[canadian_wife 1,791]

Kastrs - Thanks for answering my questions. The OP seems to need much more facetime in her relationship based on what you said.

Good luck OP

[apalachidoremi 10]

just to add - a K1 visa tends to be quicker, but proving you have a bonafide relationship in the eyes of the CO is your challenge. Expect that they might scrutinize the "flags" that were mentioned in the earlier posts.

A CR1 may be your best bet, however, you can't file that as soon as you two get married wherever, you need to let the soup simmer .. in other words you have to prove the whole thing was not rushed, and you both have made adjustments together (merging of bank aaccounts, etc) plus dealing with the potential "red flags" - so this will take more time.

these marriage and love visas were created in the pretense of love itself but come to think of it, the way you approach these applications has to be calculating and on point.

[KierenHby 897]

It's a little complicated... Problems arose in his village in Kashmir during the investigation by the German Embassy when he and his ex-wife were filing for the German marriage visa for him. They had a Muslim marriage in India in which she converted to Islam. But when the Embassy left a neighbor's house after questioning/validation, that neighbor decided to spread rumors in his village that Ashiq had, in fact, been the one to convert, to Christianity, causing conflict for him with the locals in his Muslim state--conflict that could, potentially, put him and/or his family in danger. He was denied twice by the German Embassy, simply on the basis of doubt. Then, after fighting/appealing it in court, she cheated on him just before their final meeting with the Embassy, in which the visa was finally going to be approved. This has, in turn, complicated OUR process, as he is afraid something like this (false religious accusations) could happen again and put his family in danger (Kashmir is...well...unique...) Step back and grasp that someone from a disputed region going for a German\US spouse would give an embassy CO pause.

He says his parents and family would accept me with open arms, as they did his ex, but because of the accusations against him there in the past and the fact that his family has never traveled outside of Kashmir, my meeting them in person will prove to be difficult (I still haven't even met them on Skype, as Ashiq has stayed away from Kashmir these last few months to escape the recent conflict, up until just a few days ago. Not easy for a foreign national to travel to Kashmir without explicit government approval in advance. Where is he now?

I was raised Christian and, although I am open to Islam and have researched the Quran and its teachings, he knows I am not ready or willing to convert. His previous wife did, how would you be different. These things have a funny way of creeping up as disputes later on in life. I've never heard of a muslim man converting; always, always the wife who converts. I've asked him about how we would/will raise our children if/when we have them, if I don't convert, and he told me (and I agreed) that we will teach them what is common between Muslims and Christians, and let them choose for themselves. Very poetic and all, but unrealistic. He is seven years younger than I (he lied about his age at first, Already started. the brat!). I am a high school graduate with some college; he has his 10th grade standard. He is going to sign for/finalize his divorce in February when he goes back to Delhi, which he claims will be simple, Nothing is simple in Indian red tape as it was a Muslim wedding that took place in India and is under Sharia Law (he has rights in Islam because of her affair, which he also has proof of, and because their marriage never became valid in Germany due to his initial visa denials and voiding/withdrawing their application for it). My divorce was finalized in 2014.

Plenty of flags I see, and having dealt with the new delhi embassy, they too will. This won't be easy.

[jamie916 1]

Yes, it is supposed to be in the pretense of love, which is the most frustrating and upsetting aspect of this whole thing. We get so upset about the fact that, as two mature adults, we still cannot make our own decisions about who we choose to love and what we want to do with our lives without answering to someone (the Embassy) who wants all of this proof and validation from others (family, neighbors, etc.) What if our families or cultures DIDN'T approve? Does that then mean that we should not continue following our own hearts and desires but should instead bow down to everyone else's wishes and beliefs and end what we have worked so hard for?? Why not keep us under our parents' thumb then, as adults just as we were as children? It's ridiculous...

In regards to the comments about not having spent enough time together on video chat: We have spent HOURS, which adds up to DAYS, on video chat since we started talking in mid-June! How much more time do you need to spend with someone for them to consider it "bonafide"? He has met my family on Skype/FaceTime and talks my mom and son pretty regularly. We talk every morning and every night; there hasn't been a day that's passed that we haven't. Obviously I won't be applying at all until his divorce is final and I have proof of that, so we will have that much more time to "spend" together... Shouldn't that suffice when it comes to this requirement?

About the US Embassy investigation: I don't know what problems could occur for him if we were to marry in India, exactly, as I am not in his shoes; I can't imagine what it's like to live in such a conflicted area. But I want to ensure his and his family's safety however possible, and with the Indian law being the way it is (I read that you must notify them of your intent to marry if marrying there in India), it seems that marrying in another country may be a good way to avoid the risk involved in our wedding being published in the local paper or word getting around about his choice to marry yet another Westerner and facing the same accusations as before. He then wouldn't even be required to register our marriage in India, avoiding any potential problems that could occur from it.

Who knows? Maybe he would still end up facing problems when it comes to the investigation process, even with the marriage visa... What I do know is that he shouldn't have to live in fear of something happening because the decisions he chooses to make differ from the views of those around him--no one should. Because of his situation, I've even talked to him about the possibility of getting him over here as a refugee somehow; after all, he was staying away from home the last several months to avoid the conflict there, making him technically an asylee there. But I'm not sure what our chances would be for that either...

It says I can only make 1 more post here until Dec 20 @1:55 AM... Is there any way around the designated 10 posts they give you here?? If not, I apologize for any delayed responses and will reply via personal message or as soon as I am allowed to post again later tonight! Thank you to everyone for all of your help! This is so complex...?

You guys are awesome! ?

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

I know that India is very picky about who attends the wedding and often couples are asked for a complete guest list with addresses and phone numbers. They like a traditional wedding with family in attendance. If you marry somewhere else and get interviewed in India expect scrutiny again.

[KierenHby 897]

COs in India are picky with cases that have flags.. large age diff, she older than him, religious diff, weddings sans families, etc.

Cos are aware that some Indian men are known to be desperate to meet western women online, many offering hush hush money to marry in hopes of landing a visa; COs look to weed these out.

[Cathi 5,609]

The Indian government has nothing to do with approving a K1 fiance visa, that is up to USCIS/ the US government.

The main thing is that you can prove a bonafide relationship- you know you have one, but would an outsider see the same? For example, you have only met once; "face time", ie time spent together, is important; the longer/ the more visits the better, and also meeting eachother's families. You can absolutely get approved with one visit, but the more visits you have, and the longer those visits are, the better your chances. Also, you say he is Muslim. One question that will come up is about the religious difference; will you convert, and if not, how will you manage that? What does his family think about your relationship? How will you bring up any kids you may have?

Do you have any other "red flags", such as a big age or educational difference, recent divorce, has he tried to immigrate to the USA before?

Just going to chime in here. I am Catholic, my husband Muslim. I attended his interview in Amman for his CR-1, we were both questioned and the CO never asked if I planned to convert, as a matter of fact not a single question about our different religions was asked at all. Not to say it won't be asked, but it is not an automatic.

[Cathi 5,609]

I am 21 years older than my Muslim husband and we were never asked if we planned to have children together(I was at his interview and I have 2 adult children from a previous marriage). I've heard that it's asked often, but for us it wasn't.

[jamie916 1]

This is beginning to seem nearly impossible, with him being from Kashmir... BUT there is love there. And love never fails. Love can conquer all mountains. So who the HELL has any right to try and stop anyone?? ???

I will not give up on my love...??

This is beginning to seem nearly impossible, with him being from Kashmir... BUT there is love there. And love never fails. Love can conquer all mountains. So who the HELL has any right to try and stop anyone?? ???

I will not give up on my love...??

[jamie916 1]

Thank you so much, to everyone who has helped me with answers to my many questions. I genuinely appreciate each and every one of you for your time. ❤️

Edited December 21, 2016 by Ryan H
Reason for edit: to remove multiple posting.