General questions specific to me

[baron555 934]

IMBRA by its own definition deals with entities called 'International Marriage Brokers' their services, are what are interpreted as mail order brides, and those that delve more into illegal trafficking.

How you describe your meeting in your profile, is a dating webpage of mutual interest, it does not sound like a Marriage Broker as defined by IMBRA

Definition of an International Marriage Broker. “International marriage broker” is defined as an entity (whether or not U.S.-based) that charges fees for providing matchmaking services or social referrals between U.S. citizens/permanent residents and foreign nationals. The definition also exempts non-profit religious or cultural matchmaking services, and dating services that do not match U.S. citizens/residents with aliens as their principal business and that charge comparable rates and offer comparable services to all clients, regardless of gender or country of citizenship.

At any rate, choose what you wish to believe, if you say they don't exist, then fine, I'll continue to believe they do. The world will carry on spinning.

Good luck with your journey.

No where in the definition above does it mention mail order brides.

From the definition: entity that charges fees for providing social referrals between U.S. citizens/permanent residents and foreign nationals.

I paid a fee for the contact information. Seems to be a match to me.

And from the definition: exempts non-profit religious or cultural matchmaking services, and dating services that do not match U.S. citizens/residents with aliens as their principal business and that charge comparable rates and offer comparable services to all clients, regardless of gender or country of citizenship.

Again, providing this contact information was/is the primary business of the service I used. So I listed the service as an IMB on the 129f and never had an issue.

This really is a non-issue and there is NO HARM to listing one even if it may not be. I really don't see the need to further this discussion. One would hope that USCIS cleans up the information requirement and language they use so that so many are not confused as they are.

[JonasSobieski 17]

No where in the definition above does it mention mail order brides.

From the definition: entity that charges fees for providing social referrals between U.S. citizens/permanent residents and foreign nationals.

I paid a fee for the contact information. Seems to be a match to me.

And from the definition: exempts non-profit religious or cultural matchmaking services, and dating services that do not match U.S. citizens/residents with aliens as their principal business and that charge comparable rates and offer comparable services to all clients, regardless of gender or country of citizenship.

Again, providing this contact information was/is the primary business of the service I used. So I listed the service as an IMB on the 129f and never had an issue.

This really is a non-issue and there is NO HARM to listing one even if it may not be. I really don't see the need to further this discussion. One would hope that USCIS cleans up the information requirement and language they use so that so many are not confused as they are.

I don't really want to jump into this, but really, you're grabbing at straws. Just because they don't OPENLY identify themselves as "mail order bride agencies" doesn't mean that they're not.

Look at a wikipedia article on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail-order_bride.

It clearly states "Mail-order brides work with "international marriage agencies". An international marriage agency (also called an international introduction agency or international marriage broker) is a business that endeavors to introduce men and women of different countries for the purpose of marriage, dating or correspondence."

They don't use the term "mail order bride" simply because it has a bad connotation to it and seems derogatory. Just like we no longer used the words "cripple" (handicapped person), "the dump" (landfill), "trailer home" (mobile home), "old people" (senior citizens)... Just because you change the name of it, it doesn't really change the meaning.

[cdneh 3,118]

You're naive if you don't recognize that mail order bride services exist. However, I'm only referencing that all K1's that initially met online are requested to submit evidence of non-IMBRA. Sorry if my choice of words got you confused.

No they are not. I met my husband online and we were not requested to submit evidence of that. This is incorrect.

[baron555 934]

I

They don't use the term "mail order bride" simply because it has a bad connotation to it and seems derogatory. Just like we no longer used the words "cripple" (handicapped person), "the dump" (landfill), "trailer home" (mobile home), "old people" (senior citizens)... Just because you change the name of it, it doesn't really change the meaning.

I'll buy that. I just get upset when people use this term because it unfairly stigmatizes these agencies. The connotation is that one can pay a fee, select their bride and then get married. It is far from that; these type of agencies to not legally exist, so why use the term.

And do you see any harm to them? I know my wife and I met through one but our relationship evolved and exists just as most everyone else

[JonasSobieski 17]

I'll buy that. I just get upset when people use this term because it unfairly stigmatizes these agencies. The connotation is that one can pay a fee, select their bride and then get married. It is far from that; these type of agencies to not legally exist, so why use the term.

And do you see any harm to them? I know my wife and I met through one but our relationship evolved and exists just as most everyone else

Oh, I agree with you on both points. That connotation just comes from ignorance on the part of people who know nothing about it. If they choose to believe such nonsense, that's their problem. I see nothing wrong with using such agency.

[A'n'L 735]

No they are not. I met my husband online and we were not requested to submit evidence of that. This is incorrect.

Well, I've seen quite a few posters on here over the last year that have received RFE for this when they answered q34a on the I129F with "met online". You must've got lucky.

No they are not. I met my husband online and we were not requested to submit evidence of that. This is incorrect.

Well, I've seen quite a few posters on here over the last year that have received RFE for this when they answered q34a on the I129F with "met online". You must've got lucky.

[A'n'L 735]

Thank you for your reply. My answers:

- I am 37 she is 28

- Yes we meet online, just a normal dating site.

- We didn't think she would be able to work on a K-1 Visa. Also, it's going to be a big culture change for her, eventually she will work, but not at first. We both thought she should have some time to adjust. And we don't need the extra income.

Well, she can't work until after you've married, applied for AOS and EAD (work permit). Typically takes 3 months to get the work permit. As another professional moving to the US for the first time, I would advise that getting a job as soon as possible is the best way to integrate and adjust, as she would be making new friends and feel like she is contributing to society :-)

[Cali_D 43]

No. My wife is from a "mail order bride" online service also. I picked her out of an online catalog, paid my $99 and voila she came over and we were married.

If anyone believes it was as simple as that....then....

What many many folks don't understand is that USCIS defines IMBs differently than what they think is the definition. If you read the 129f form instructions, they specifically mention that an IMB (by their definition) is an online service that charges a fee for contact information and facilitates the communication. I understood that and wrote the name and address of the service we used and had no problems. Now is this service providing marriage brokering? No. But this did charge a fee for her contact information. Many folks interpret this differently (and you will see them surface again once I hit the send button on this posting) and don't put anything, but do mention that they first met online. In the old days, nothing was heard about it. In recent years USCIS is RFEing a lot for this.

So, if you were charged a fee for contact info, then write the name down. If not, then you still could write the name down or provide specific information from the service stating that they are not an IMB. Remember USCIS defines IMB differently than the commonly thought definition should be.

For some sites they state this in their T&C conditions. Some will provide a statement and many will not do anything. There is no harm to listing one as an IMB even if they are not.

It never was an issue for us.

Thanks for the info. To be clear, we meet on a general international dating website. There was no "middle man" or service. I paid $20 to use the site, thats it. I can find the credit card payment to the website, but my profile is long gone. Should I pull the credit card statement for the website we used? Will that help us?

[nygnyy 7]

No they are not. I met my husband online and we were not requested to submit evidence of that. This is incorrect.

Good to know. My fiancee and I also met online, and my response to Part 2, Question 34a and other parts of my package explicitly stated we met on a game we both played. I was getting discouraged and thinking I should pre-empt an RFE by sending more details about the game, but this puts my mind at ease a bit.

[baron555 934]

Thanks for the info. To be clear, we meet on a general international dating website. There was no "middle man" or service. I paid $20 to use the site, thats it. I can find the credit card payment to the website, but my profile is long gone. Should I pull the credit card statement for the website we used? Will that help us?

No the payment statement doesn't mean anything. Personally I would list the site on the IMB question section since, IMO, it does meet the definition since you paid a fee to gain access to the information.

There is no harm to list a site here....and as stated and as we've been seeing, lately USCIS is sending out a lot of RFEs for folks who do not. Usually the RFE is taken care of, but it's just a delay that may be avoided.

[cdneh 3,118]

Good to know. My fiancee and I also met online, and my response to Part 2, Question 34a and other parts of my package explicitly stated we met on a game we both played. I was getting discouraged and thinking I should pre-empt an RFE by sending more details about the game, but this puts my mind at ease a bit.

I've got three friends from NZ scattered around the USA who met their now husbands playing WOW. They weren't asked to prove anything either. I rang one of them up last night in CT for confirmation. Newp, not asked.

[Cali_D 43]

No the payment statement doesn't mean anything. Personally I would list the site on the IMB question section since, IMO, it does meet the definition since you paid a fee to gain access to the information.

There is no harm to list a site here....and as stated and as we've been seeing, lately USCIS is sending out a lot of RFEs for folks who do not. Usually the RFE is taken care of, but it's just a delay that may be avoided.

Good advice. To be clear the site was not a site that once paid I was granted access to list of girls to contact. It was a site that you can't send messages without paying, just like all the traditional american dating sites you see advertised on TV. I only mention this because it seems my "mail order bride" comment from my first post kicked off a fierce debate. :-)

Thanks for all the feedback.

[nygnyy 7]

I've got three friends from NZ scattered around the USA who met their now husbands playing WOW. They weren't asked to prove anything either. I rang one of them up last night in CT for confirmation. Newp, not asked.

Very nice, thanks much! Should I mention the game we met on has the word 'alien' in it (as in the mysterious green creatures in outer space )

[Cali_D 43]

I'm digging up an old post of mine to settle the debate that started many months ago about mail order bride services in Eastern Europe. I'm sure someone will use the search function in the future and want a clear answer.

I have been to Russia 6 times in the last few months. I've spent a total of 15 weeks there (I'm lucky my job allows this). My fiancée has a twin sister that we have been helping find dates through internet dating sites. I am a "self-proclaimed" expert on mail order brides. In general, they don't exist in Russia. To clarify there may be one rogue underground small time business that is trying to offer this service, but it's not like you think. There is no website or catalog of girls that are so poor they will do anything to escape poverty. I have been all over Russia and Siberia and it's nothing like what us folks in the west would expect. It's safe, clean and modern. So to be clear, when I say mail order brides don't exist in Russia, I'm talking about the stereotypical mail order bride system that did exist years ago. Of course there are websites dedicated to matching people for the purpose of marrying, but the girls on these sites have complete control of the people they are matched with.

To suggest that Eastern European girls are willing to marry any man, site unseen, is absolutely untrue. There is no mail order bride system, it simply doesn't exist. Having said that, there used to be. This is why the US government has the IMBRA Act of 2005. I've read many people (during K1) needing to prove that they did not meeting through a marriage broker, so I have some advice. Check the "terms and conditions" of the dating website, then print this and keep it. You may need it for a possible RFE in the future.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Darryl_F