Cologne attacks: mayor lambasted for telling women to keep men at arm's length

[Darnell 8,478]

Maven (The) - crikey ! Burn yer uggs, lass, you had to use notational footnotes !!!

[JayJayH 546]

everything you're mentioning from the koran can be pulled from the bible too. big old religions are patriarchal and treat women as tools to be used by men. these books come from a time when women were possessions, so not really surprising women still get treated as such - everyone is still following the same archaic religions and leaving the nasty "sell your daughter's virginity to get out of a bind" parts of their scripture up to individual interpretation.

The Quran and the Old Testament are equally violent, barbaric and downright medieval.

Here's the difference: Not a single group of any significance in any country takes the Old Testament literally (or seriously). Only for purposes of converting gays (note, not killing them). We have no culture in the US or the West for oppression of women or killing atheists, gays and coverts. This is the culture in virtually every Muslim majority country in the world

The Quran is taken quite literally in virtually every Muslim majority country on Earth, except perhaps for the notoriously secular Turkey and some of it's former 'colonies' (Albania and Bosnia).

Christianity and Judaism have both gone through a reformation over the past centuries, while large swathes of the Islamic world still clings onto medieval, literal interpretations of the Quran.

Bringing up equally appalling verses from the Old Testament as a way to discredit criticism of Islam would be relevant if there actually were significant populations in the west that took the Old Testament literally. There are none. Actually, perhaps the Westboro Baptist Church.

then is it the "culture " of the Syrian refugees rather than the religion aspect that has caused all the rapes and groping that is happening all over Europe ... We have not any reports of thousand of German Christians groping and raping Muslim women that night.

Combination of culture, fueled by varying degrees of literal interpretations of medieval texts and religious laws.

Edited January 7, 2016 by JayJayH

[smilesammich 10,727]

The Quran and the Old Testament are equally violent, barbaric and downright medieval.

Here's the difference: Not a single group of any significance in any country takes the Old Testament literally (or seriously). Only for purposes of converting gays (note, not killing them). We have no culture in the US or the West for oppression of women or killing atheists, gays and coverts. This is the culture in virtually every Muslim majority country in the world

The Quran is taken quite literally in virtually every Muslim majority country on Earth, except perhaps for the notoriously secular Turkey and some of it's former 'colonies' (Albania and Bosnia).

Christianity and Judaism have both gone through a reformation over the past centuries, while large swathes of the Islamic world still clings onto medieval, literal interpretations of the Quran.

Bringing up equally appalling verses from the Old Testament as a way to discredit criticism of Islam would be relevant if there actually were significant populations in the west that took the Old Testament literally. There are none. Actually, perhaps the Westboro Baptist Church.

Combination of culture, fueled by varying degrees of literal interpretations of medieval texts and religious laws.

where do you get that i'm arguing to discredit criticism of islam? criticize all you want, but if you want justice for the people attacked the only effective approach is to go after the attackers. folks want to argue that islam is the problem, i think religion is.

[JayJayH 546]

where do you get that i'm arguing to discredit criticism of islam? criticize all you want, but if you want justice for the people attacked the only effective approach is to go after the attackers. folks want to argue that islam is the problem, i think religion is.

I agree completely.

The problem in Europe has long been a failure by media and politicians to admit that first and second generation immigrants from Muslim-majority countries in the Middle East and parts of Africa are over-represented in these statistics by a very large margin. Rather than actually taking a good hard look at those statistics, politicians and media in Europe have been taking the politically correct approach of ostracizing and effectively silencing anyone who brings it up.

[ExPatty 502]

again, you misunderstand me. of course religion motivates the religious. without a doubt. but show me where all rapists/misogynists are of one particular religion...you can't. rapists can be both religious and non religious. i'm no scientist but i think that blows your common thread into pieces.

Nobody can. Because nobody has ever claimed it.

where do you get that i'm arguing to discredit criticism of islam? criticize all you want, but if you want justice for the people attacked the only effective approach is to go after the attackers. folks want to argue that islam is the problem, i think religion is.

But as jay jay's post points out, not all religions are the same. As I've pointed out. You keep trying to draw an equivalence where one does not exist. boko haram isn't killing thousands of people because they love Jesus, nor is ISIS putting grown men into mazes and having armed children chase them around as a game because they worship the Virgin Mary, nor are they making snazzy videos of men burning to death because they surround themselves with Buddha statues. They are doing it because "allahu akbar".

first and second generation immigrants from Muslim-majority countries in the Middle East and parts of Africa are over-represented in these statistics by a very large margin.

Bingo. Edited January 7, 2016 by ExPatty

[ExPatty 502]

I shall invoke my esteemed former colleague Penny Lane's well-known statement: "I never said that." I believe my comments in this thread have been limited to:

A.) This is gross; women are treated like scum in some societies that also proclaim them to be domestic angels; women have a right to be people out in the world without being assaulted¹;

B) Sweet Jesus, I love the West Wing²;

C) I defer to the Patriarchy like a good little woman, and savor the irony of a demand made for my reply in a thread about how men disrespect the agency of women³; and

D) This summary.

Unless you are creeping in the little green "+1" counts to determine who likes posts that you don't. Are +1's speech? It's actually a topic that has been considered at law. In the case Bland v. Roberts, 730 F.3d 368 (4th Cir. Va. 2013), the Fourth US Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that Facebook "likes" are protected speech under the First Amendment. Potentially a VJ +1 could then be considered speech. Under such an argument, when I gave a +1 to Rob L⁴ for his question:

it is arguable that I was endorsing this question. However, I only gave a +1 because I thought it was a relevant question to ask. I don't know you, so I don't know the answer to this question, and I think in the circumstances it can give some context. Granted, the phrasing is snarky, but hey, this is VJ. Nevertheless, I did not directly challenge you.

Most pertinently, creeping in the +1s is weird. But hey, I'm out of my depth and should go back to posting gifs.

• http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/580980-cologne-attacks-mayor-lambasted-for-telling-women-to-keep-men-at-arms-length/?p=7957085
• http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/580980-cologne-attacks-mayor-lambasted-for-telling-women-to-keep-men-at-arms-length/?p=7957249
• http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/580980-cologne-attacks-mayor-lambasted-for-telling-women-to-keep-men-at-arms-length/?p=7957316
• http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/580980-cologne-attacks-mayor-lambasted-for-telling-women-to-keep-men-at-arms-length/?p=7957207

Oops, my bad; I thought you had asked it, not Rob L. I'm proud of you for your post, though. It was very empowering and I know it was a lot of fun to write! +1 for you, in fact.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Nobody can. Because nobody has ever claimed it.

But as jay jay's post points out, not all religions are the same. As I've pointed out. You keep trying to draw an equivalence where one does not exist. boko haram isn't killing thousands of people because they love Jesus, nor is ISIS putting grown men into mazes and having armed children chase them around as a game because they worship the Virgin Mary, nor are they making snazzy videos of men burning to death because they surround themselves with Buddha statues. They are doing it because "allahu akbar"..

basically, all you've done is list atrocities and blamed them on islam essentially taking accountability away from the people committing the atrocities. but whatever, let's go with your take. the assaults on new years were because islam. how on earth are we going to keep islam from attacking women? Edited January 7, 2016 by elitesthuglib

[JayJayH 546]

basically, all you've done is list atrocities and blamed them on islam essentially taking accountability away from the people committing the atrocities. but whatever, let's go with your take. the assaults on new years were because islam. how on earth are we going to keep islam from attacking women?

I don't think it can be blamed on Islam per se. But I do think it's both productive and realistic to be honest about the fact that certain demographics (immigrants from Muslim-majority countries in the Middle East and Africa) have different views on women and society than what is generally acceptable in the west, and are less willing to adopt to western standards than other groups.

Europe's problem is that it has been admitting millions of people from majority-Muslim countries in the Middle East, while at the same time dismissing any concerns regarding significant cultural differences as "racism" and "xenophobia." Absolutely amazing article (not Fox News) written by a Belgian cultural anthropologist http://www.politico.eu/article/molenbeek-broke-my-heart-radicalization-suburb-brussels-gentrification/

Immigrants in Europe from Latin America, east Asia and southern parts of Africa are rarely represented in these types of statistics at all.

Edited January 7, 2016 by JayJayH

[JayJayH 546]

[...] but whatever, let's go with your take. the assaults on new years were because islam. how on earth are we going to keep islam from attacking women?

By not hiding the fact that immigrants from Muslim-majority countries are significantly over-represented in various crime statistics in western countries where they form a significant part of the population (Western Europe and even to a degree Australia).

Denial and political correctness in Europe has given rise to a number of neo-fascist political parties which have gained a significant amount of seats in parliaments and legislative bodies across Europe. Sadly, it's giving rise to political figures like Donald Trump here in the U.S.

Edited January 7, 2016 by JayJayH

[ExPatty 502]

basically, all you've done is list atrocities and blamed them on islam essentially taking accountability away from the people committing the atrocities. but whatever, let's go with your take. the assaults on new years were because islam. how on earth are we going to keep islam from attacking women?

A man runs a business. He has many employees. For a time he hires anybody who wants to work with him. But, he is an observant man, paying close attention to the behavior of his employees. He notices some employees perform their duties well. They show up for work on time, work efficiently, and steal nothing. He notices other employees who are bad employees. They show up late, often not at all, they do badly at their job, and they regularly steal things. The man tries to figure out which employees are good employees and which ones steal his stuff. He interviews all his employees and finds a strong statistical correlation between the employees who profess to exercise a lot and eat well doing a good job, and a strong correlation between those employees who shoot heroin, smoke crack, and take meth doing a bad job.

One day he catches an employees stealing thousands of dollars worth of equipment. He fires this employee and presses charges. The employee pleads that it's not his fault, he is simply a crack head and doesn't make good choices. The man feels that the employee is to blame for what he's done, and deserves to go to jail. But the man also realizes that had this employee never started smocking crack, maybe he would be one of the good employees. Nonetheless, the man must conclude that smoking crack increases the odds of stealing.

The man stops hiring crack heads.

Edited January 7, 2016 by ExPatty

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

A man runs a business. He has many employees. For a time he hires anybody who wants to work with him. But, he is an observant man, paying close attention to the behavior of his employees. He notices some employees perform their duties well. They show up for work on time, work efficiently, and steal nothing. He notices other employees who are bad employees. They show up late, often not at all, they do badly at their job, and they regularly steal things. The man tries to figure out which employees are good employees and which ones steal his stuff. He interviews all his employees and finds a strong statistical correlation between the employees who profess to exercise a lot and eat well doing a good job, and a strong correlation between those employees who shoot heroin, smoke crack, and take meth doing a bad job.

One day he catches an employees stealing thousands of dollars worth of equipment. He fires this employee and presses charges. The employee pleads that it's not his fault, he is simply a crack head and doesn't make good choices. The man feels that the employee is to blame for what he's done, and deserves to go to jail. But the man also realizes that had this employee never started smocking crack, maybe he would be one of the good employees. Nonetheless, the man must conclude that smoking crack increases the odds of stealing.

The man stops hiring crack heads.

Common sense

[Darnell 8,478]

basically, all you've done is list atrocities and blamed them on islam essentially taking accountability away from the people committing the atrocities. but whatever, let's go with your take. the assaults on new years were because islam. how on earth are we going to keep islam from attacking women?

Ya know, this is a great question for the Sharia Council there in Cologne. I am thinking to fire off an email, soonish, and ask them about it.

[Boiler 43,426]

I can help but think that if VJ had been around in the 1930's there would be some on here, the usual suspects, that wouyd be defending Nazi's and saying that the good Nazi's should not be tainted with the actions of the bad Nazi's.

Somethings are just plain evil, the apologists as they say would be the first against the wall.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Boiler

[smilesammich 10,727]

Common sense

muslims are crackheads?

I can help but think that if VJ had been around in the 1930's there would be some on here, the usual suspects, that wouyd be defending Nazi's and saying that the good Nazi's should not be tainted with the actions of the bad Nazi's.

Somethings are just plain evil, the apologists as they say would be the first against the wall.

and nazis

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

I can help but think that if VJ had been around in the 1930's there would be some on here, the usual suspects, that wouyd be defending Nazi's and saying that the good Nazi's should not be tainted with the actions of the bad Nazi's.

Somethings are just plain evil, the apologists as they say would be the first against the wall.

Amen

muslims are crackheads?

and nazis

No crack and meth heads are crack and Meth heads. They make terrible employees and will steal from you