FORGERY - what to do?

[Cathi 5,607]

She just arrived in Oct 2014 and my wife left me the day she arrived and filed for divorce. She didn't even try to cover up her motives.

and it took over a year to find out your wife forged your signature? Or did you know prior to the divorce and did nothing until now because of the divorce?

[darstar007 7]

and it took over a year to find out your wife forged your signature? Or did you know prior to the divorce and did nothing until now because of the divorce?

I did not know who the sponsor for her mother was until I had my lawyer demand to my ex that she provide the AOS as part of my trial for annulment. I finally got the damning document from her last week.

Edited August 1, 2015 by darstar007

[Villanelle 4,121]

Oh my what a mess.

I usually post things that are dramatically different from the consensus so no surprise here---

I do agree the proper steps are to contact USCIS and the local police dept. HOWEVER> I dont think much is going to be done about it. (sorry thats just my opinion). Theres this thing called signing with permission/ where a lot of people may be surprised but forgery laws are complex and you can infact sign something on someone elses behalf if you have permission to do so.

Please see this link as reference as it explains it better then I can- http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/if-someone-gives-me-permission-sign-their-name-have-i

Its recommended that you sign in a way that identifies that you are doing it with permission. You can get into tricky waters when the person (like in this case) insists they never gave permission then it becomes a he said she said scenario and there are never any winners in that.

As far as I am aware the law does not require it to be noted that it was done with permission BUT an appeals judge did hold up in 2009 that doing so (signing with out noting it was done with permission) was deceptive in a ruling http://www.oncontracts.com/signing-someone-elses-name-with-permission-butwithout-so-indicating-is-dishonest-7th-circuit-posner/

Oral permission counts as permission- Forgery involves "intent to deceive": SO with out the deceive part youve got nothing. http://www.lawqa.com/qa/if-someone-gives-you-oral-permission-to-sign-your-signature-that-breaking-law

The police/authorities (including USCIS) would have to believe that there is no way you would have given permission for her to sign that on your behalf- if they even get as far.

So first they would have to compare the signatures- if its not a match the signer is going to argue they did so with permission, You would have to prove or convince them you didnt. I doubt you have any proof of emails or communication where you are declining to sign. Its not unreasonable to assume a spouse would assist in signing such a form to bring their spouses family member over. (and now that it went bad they want a way out) So its an uphill battle and what kind of proof you have matters.

-

I personally find it very unlikley that the police will act on your complaint. They will take the complaint because thats what they do- but I wouldnt hold my breath in seeking/waiting for them to prosecute because your case is your word (Im assuming you have no evidence where you flat out refuse to sign it and it turns up signed)-

I also browsed through the 864 and no where do I see anything about not accepting signatures on behalf but I suspect if it was attempted to be filed like that it would get rejected. So what is USCIS going to do with it. Im not sure and I am curious as to how this plays out. You wouldnt be the first person (from their POV) to have a signed 864 for a divorced family member that is trying to undo it by any means necessary.

Im inclined to say their FDNS is going to take the same outlook as the police- what proof do you have its not your signature?

But again I do recommend going to both the police and USCIS - specifically the fraud unit and seeing what they tell you.

[darstar007 7]

Oh my what a mess.

I usually post things that are dramatically different from the consensus so no surprise here---

I do agree the proper steps are to contact USCIS and the local police dept. HOWEVER> I dont think much is going to be done about it. (sorry thats just my opinion). Theres this thing called signing with permission/ where a lot of people may be surprised but forgery laws are complex and you can infact sign something on someone elses behalf if you have permission to do so.

Please see this link as reference as it explains it better then I can- http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/if-someone-gives-me-permission-sign-their-name-have-i

Its recommended that you sign in a way that identifies that you are doing it with permission. You can get into tricky waters when the person (like in this case) insists they never gave permission then it becomes a he said she said scenario and there are never any winners in that.

As far as I am aware the law does not require it to be noted that it was done with permission BUT an appeals judge did hold up in 2009 that doing so (signing with out noting it was done with permission) was deceptive in a ruling http://www.oncontracts.com/signing-someone-elses-name-with-permission-butwithout-so-indicating-is-dishonest-7th-circuit-posner/

Oral permission counts as permission- Forgery involves "intent to deceive": SO with out the deceive part youve got nothing. http://www.lawqa.com/qa/if-someone-gives-you-oral-permission-to-sign-your-signature-that-breaking-law

The police/authorities (including USCIS) would have to believe that there is no way you would have given permission for her to sign that on your behalf- if they even get as far.

So first they would have to compare the signatures- if its not a match the signer is going to argue they did so with permission, You would have to prove or convince them you didnt. I doubt you have any proof of emails or communication where you are declining to sign. Its not unreasonable to assume a spouse would assist in signing such a form to bring their spouses family member over. (and now that it went bad they want a way out) So its an uphill battle and what kind of proof you have matters.

-

I personally find it very unlikley that the police will act on your complaint. They will take the complaint because thats what they do- but I wouldnt hold my breath in seeking/waiting for them to prosecute because your case is your word (Im assuming you have no evidence where you flat out refuse to sign it and it turns up signed)-

I also browsed through the 864 and no where do I see anything about not accepting signatures on behalf but I suspect if it was attempted to be filed like that it would get rejected. So what is USCIS going to do with it. Im not sure and I am curious as to how this plays out. You wouldnt be the first person (from their POV) to have a signed 864 for a divorced family member that is trying to undo it by any means necessary.

Im inclined to say their FDNS is going to take the same outlook as the police- what proof do you have its not your signature?

But again I do recommend going to both the police and USCIS - specifically the fraud unit and seeing what they tell you.

Damara, thank you for the detailed and thoughtful response. Contrarian views are welcome too. I would just say that my case is more complex than I am able to reveal in this forum. There are multiple supporting evidence which would be used to bolster my case. When presented with this evidence my ex seems to have panicked that her act has come to light. She was willing to leave a few hundred thousand dollars on the table and cash out with a settlement for much less than she would have gotten if the divorce had played out. I am unsure of her or her mother's whearabouts at this point, but I just want to make sure the government is aware so that I am not on the hook if they decide to stay in the USA. I am under no illusions that it will be easy or quick, but it is something that I will need to follow through on.

[uniquelyJo 34]

I would also suggest checking your Credit if you haven't already done so, just to make sure there are no loans or credit cards under your name, that they might be using.

[Cathi 5,607]

I did not know who the sponsor for her mother was until I had my lawyer demand to my ex that she provide the AOS as part of my trial for annulment. I finally got the damning document from her last week.

yikes

[Villanelle 4,121]

Well I hope you keep updating in this thread because its a curious situation and the outcome will be interesting no matter which way it goes.

The only other advice I can give you is to keep in mind USCIS does not function under the same general laws that courts do. They have their own policies and procedures. So it can be a little infuriating. Things like "due process" and being innocent until proven guilty dont (always) apply to the USCIS. This is hard to understand for many Americans, they operate on their own terms in their own way ans its not always easy to deal with.

For a general court and obtain a prosecution for forgery it comes down to the "intent to deceive" as mentioned above but there are also a lot of other considerations. Often the courts wont get involved in 'domestic matters' even if you have solid proof of the crime because its domestic. It becomes complicated and it can also be political. They can be reluctant to pursue a case that they dont think they will win because its costly and it will leave a mark on their record if they lose. You also have to take into account that the document you are bringing them- (the 864) is a complex form that doesnt have-- lets say a solid track record in court. If that makes sense. Most are not going to know what it does- so they probably wont have a good understanding of the 'crime'. Its not like its a contract they come across. So you need first proof the paper was actually filed and not just a signed sheet of paper.

You may find yourself on an endless loop where the police are reluctant to act with out proof from USCIS showing it was used and USCIS reluctant to look into it with out a police/prosecution case showing a crime was committed.

For USCIS- you dont have to look far not only in these forums but on the net in general to see that quite a bit of sour relationships end up with one party at USCIS complaining of fraud. Because of the sheer number of often unsubstantiated complaints USCIS does not jump when a USC comes in and claims some kind of fraud.

Typically when anyone brings up the 864- they completely shut down and shut you out. For example it is perfectly acceptable to withdraw the 864 at certain points but countless people have been told in person and over the phone they couldnt do it and needed to fight to get USCIS to play ball. (Fight meaning a variety of things from multiple requests to going in person several times and insisting)

So Im just imagining a person going in and claiming the 864 submitted was done so with out their consent- How is USCIS going to deal with that- because I am sure you are not the first person to try that line. But I havent been able to find any examples of someone doing so/what was tgheir response/outcome- so Im very interested in any updates of how this plays out.

From observations of how the FDNS operates when a fraud complaint is reported- well dont expect them to roll out the red carpet for you and be eager- this of course depends on your evidence. The 864 is one of the cornerstone documents. If they do go forward and undo it your MIL will end up in immigration court. Your wife however, being a USC probably wont face any immigration consequences as she wouldve been a citizen before she filed- So she would just be facing forgery charges as a USC.

Here are two statements taken from Dept of state-

“Visa fraud is a crime and will render an individual permanently ineligible for any type of visa to the USA,” ..."assisting or facilitating individuals to commit visa fraud can also render an individual permanently ineligible for any type of visa." (your wife doesnt need visas but can be pursued for the crime. Your MIL will be ineligible to ever come back.)

"Be truthful and bear in mind that you are responsible and accountable for your own application and everything written in it. If someone fills out the form for you it must be indicated on the form."http://nigeria.usembassy.gov/pe_07312013.html

[Sandra G. 5,006]

You just need to inform the FDNS,and they will investigate the case. We have several cases decided by the Court of Appeals regarding signature forgery. In the trial case the Government probably will have a handwriting expert to confirm the signature in the form I-864 was forged. Your ex wife and her mother will be screwed.Just take the case to the FDNS.Forgery is considered a felony by the Federal Government.

[darstar007 7]

Contacted USCIS and they told me to send an e-mail describing the situation to FDNS. Haven't heard back in a week yet, not sure how long I should expect, I assume USCIS is worse than the DMV!!! As a precaution, I made an InfoPass appointment to talk to someone face to face. Hoping this will gain me some traction.

[TBoneTX 42,988]

Good for you. Keep us apprised.

[darstar007 7]

Wow, I've never been treated more rudely and with disrespect today at USCIS. After my first sentence where I mentioned my divorce he just said "Oh you are a vindictive ex-husband" and would not listen to anything else I had to say or evidence to show him!!!! When I asked him to listen to my evidence he just had security guards escort me away. Unbelievable!!!

[darstar007 7]

Unfortunately it looks like this is a crime that she got away with. The AOS is hers and there is absolutely no way for me to get it even though I was used as a sponsor.

[TBoneTX 42,988]

Wow, I've never been treated more rudely and with disrespect today at USCIS. After my first sentence where I mentioned my divorce he just said "Oh you are a vindictive ex-husband" and would not listen to anything else I had to say or evidence to show him!!!! When I asked him to listen to my evidence he just had security guards escort me away. Unbelievable!!!

Holy mackerel.

Didn't you immediately insist on speaking with the supervisor?

File an immediate complaint with the Ombudsman, and notify your U.S. Senator/Congressman.

[darstar007 7]

Holy mackerel.

Didn't you immediately insist on speaking with the supervisor?

File an immediate complaint with the Ombudsman, and notify your U.S. Senator/Congressman.

The guy made his decision as soon as I mentioned divorce that he would not listen to anything I said. I even asked to speak with a supervisor or FDNS officer and instead he called security to escort me out. I have never experienced such a thing, was totally out of the Twilight Zone. He flashed his badge at me but then refused to give me his badge number. The security guys felt bad for me, but they couldn't do anything to help.

I tried once again to contact USCIS by phone. They cannot even tell me if I am a sponsor for somebody, ANYBODY. My ex has found a loophole in the system. Her petition for her mom is HER property and I have no possible way of getting that. Without the actual I-864A, I have zero recourse. All I can do is send email to FDNS to have a record of reporting this fraud so that if the government comes for me for money in the future, I can fight it saying that they refused to act, but my ex has gotten away with it.

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

You wife did a very silly thing, my ex tried the same BS , opening credit cards with "my signature" and having them delivered to a PO box. Fortunately community property does not include the right to sign for me. I was off the hook because I didn't personally sign and community property was exempt from fraudulent acts by one of the parties. He on the other hand could discharge the debts through bankruptcy without having the card issuers come after him for fraud.