Travel VISA after inadmissibility

[sadavis5 46]

How can you say getting informed about your legal options is an illegal immigration?

If you had no intention of immigration, why would you talk to an immigration lawyer? If I told you I might talk to a realtor on my next foreign vacation, a reasonable person would assume I was interested in buying property, right?

They took your statement to mean that you had intent to immigrate, not necessarily illegally to be an apple picker. For all they know, you have a girlfriend or family here, and wanted to talk to a lawyer about AOS.

From your posts, it sounds like you are open to moving to the US, and that probably was obvious to CBP as well. Their job is to prevent people from entering on tourist visas for the purpose of immigration, and you gave them extremely good cause to deny you. Refusing to go home until you had talked to an immigration lawyer was another really good indication that you had immigration in mind.

[MUXAGIRL 69]

You did all these just to consult a lawyer? Couldn't you just have called from your home country? Many reputed law groups have representations and offices outside the United States, you could have just gone that way instead of showing up at the doorstep of the U.S. with all that money spent and expressing your desire to speak with a lawyer and spending two months in jail, and you eventually did that consultation over the phone anyway!

By all means go for the B visa if you feel like it, but taking into account the past events, the chances are very slim. However all you can lose is the $165 application fee at this point.

[researcher123 1]

If you had no intention of immigration, why would you talk to an immigration lawyer? If I told you I might talk to a realtor on my next foreign vacation, a reasonable person would assume I was interested in buying property, right?

They took your statement to mean that you had intent to immigrate, not necessarily illegally to be an apple picker. For all they know, you have a girlfriend or family here, and wanted to talk to a lawyer about AOS.

From your posts, it sounds like you are open to moving to the US, and that probably was obvious to CBP as well. Their job is to prevent people from entering on tourist visas for the purpose of immigration, and you gave them extremely good cause to deny you. Refusing to go home until you had talked to an immigration lawyer was another really good indication that you had immigration in mind.

In your question you assume that every immigration to the US is illegal. Can you see how your question is flawed? Ask yourself whether a lawyer is any good for an immigration which is really illegal, and what immigration lawyers can help people working in special occupation fields with. Surely the assumption that all immigrations are illegal is the whole problem. If that were true, all immigrants in the US would right now be there illegally, and the CBP would have to send all of them home using the terrible prison-like system. In the US they have an immigration problem, I understand, but elsewhere in the world people think it is absurd to assume.

What is the CBP trying to do? Protect the borders from illegal immigrants. Is asking for information about a legal immigration (may be H1B or other) something that the CBP is protecting the US from? I thought there was a huge demand in Cali and SF for highly experienced professionals and that it is the biggest boost for the economy, creates new work places for Americans, etc. Of course the CBP is meant to prohibit immigration on a non-immigrant VISA, certainly I agree that a tourist VISA is not ought to be used for immigration, and I have explained I am not using mine for that purpose.

Legal immigration sounds the same to CBP as illegal immigration, and asking for information about immigration sounds the same to CBP as intending immigration. That is only because the US has a huge illegal immigration problem. I, coming from Europe, was very unaware of how big a problem the US has with illegal immigrants. Only later I have found there are 12 million of illegals, if not more, and I do understand why the CBP are so paranoid. The fact of the matter is my trip was a tourist trip for 6 days for holiday purposes. I could have asked for information about my future legal immigration via email without mentioning it.

I guess I was

a) unaware of the US problem with illegals

b) unaware of the paranoid and strict CBP

c) unprepared for such a serious questioning when nothing was a big deal for my holiday trip

d) unable to understand the impact of being controlled by the CBP who blamed me for their immigration problem and took it out on me

If I had any previous visits to the US, I would have known better about all of these points, and I would never mention the word "law" or "immigration" or anything that someone paranoid can misinterpret.

CBP keeps people who come to the US from staying illegally. We all know that. But who would ever tell about asking for legal information is any intended illegal stay. The CBP and half of America. But people in other countries in the world, particularly in Europe would not be so paranoid to say that.

If you someone from Europe visits the US for 6 day holidays, maybe some Americans will be paranoid that people are coming from Europe, and thus they may want to illegally stay in America. I was totally unaware of this paranoia, and did not realize how serious they might be. I could not have underestimated their suspicion more. It was my first trip outside Europe. To my defense, I am used to traveling in Europe as a European Union member just as easy as showing my passport. No questions asked, I am used to taking it easy, looking forward to holiday like a whole year, imagining the sun and the awesome weather. I was never more shocked and wronged. This was what happened because for the first time I traveled outside Europe, assuming that it is just like traveling inside. I thought the US only has stricter searches for prohibited items, no idea who CBP were, what GEO was, or anything about their fear of getting illegals. I would be however surprised, if the illegals could ever be more than apple pickers or road sweepers. Certainly they are not doctors, lawyers, engineers, are they?

[sadavis5 46]

In your question you assume that every immigration to the US is illegal.

I'm sorry that I didn't make my point clear.

My point is that you were entering with intent to immigrate. I said "not necessarily illegally" which means legally or illegally.

Once in the US, you can speak to a lawyer and figure out how to legally immigrate. This is abuse of the tourist visa that CBP was preventing.

[sadavis5 46]

For example, if you visit the US, meet someone, and get married, you can legally apply to adjust status. This is legal immigration.

If you visit with the intention of immigrating, "meet someone" and get married, you can still apply for AOS, but your intention of immigrating on the tourist visa is what makes it illegal. It's hard to determine after the fact if you entered with intention to immigrate, which is why CBP is so strict about it.

You demonstrated clear immigration intention when you tried to enter on the tourist visa, hence the problems you had.

Now that you've shown clear immigration intention (at least as far as USCIS is concerned) getting a tourist visa will be very difficult, and you'll need a lot of evidence to overcome this.

PS....I know engineers who have immigrated illegally!

Edited June 19, 2015 by sadavis5

[Boiler 43,388]

I find it hard to believe that you would think US does not have a similar issue with illegals as Euroland.

Applying for asylum did not strike you as an odd thing to do?

What happened happened, and I can assure you it is not normal.

[researcher123 1]

I'm sorry that I didn't make my point clear.

My point is that you were entering with intent to immigrate. I said "not necessarily illegally" which means legally or illegally.

Once in the US, you can speak to a lawyer and figure out how to legally immigrate. This is abuse of the tourist visa that CBP was preventing.

Uh huh, so the CBP has been serving the public by banning also legal immigration. Is it so? [because of illegal immigrants we ban legal ones too]

"intent to immigrate" is easily stretched to mean just about anything. I believe the definition was a bit longer, i.e. the intent to immigrate on a non-immigrant VISA. The literal meaning of that is that you request 3 month non-immigrant stay and you use it to stay longer than 3 months, or to stay indefinitely. That is the spoken abuse.

I understand the term can be easily streched to say I abuse my non-immigrant VISA because for over 10 years I have been intending to one day get an H1B or EB2. But in my case, have I really abused that non-immigrant VISA by having an interest in more information about H1B, EB2, or other options I am legally entitled to? I did not intend to stay in the US on the ESTA, and I would have to exit the US first before I could get issued a different type of VISA if there was one applicable for me.

So to my best knowledge there is no way to abuse the non-immigrant VISA by "speak[ing] to a lawyer and figur[ing] out how to legally immigrate", nor it is the goal of CBP to deprive the US of legal immigration.

I have the impression you are perfectly explaining what the CBP must have been thinking though. Perhaps they believe exactly what you said, i.e. that intent of any immigration, legal or illegal, is worth of punishing, and that tourist VISA must be denied to anyone with such an intent.

Given your very useful insights, perhaps not applying for any VISA except the said H1B or EB2 will fully resolve the "intent to immigrate" problem, since I would be applying for an immigrant VISA for which I am eligible. Now there is only one problem which is overcoming the medical. Just between us it is way too easy to attack somebody we disagree with and say he or she is "mentally unstable" in the report, while smiling and denying information to the person we accused. But how to clear that? I am assuming they will be as paranoid and suspicious, as can be. To get cleared of any medical accusation, I would need to get medically cleared for travel to the US. I guess that is done for profit. How much could any psychiatrist charge for asking me silly questions based on his unscientific, pseudomedical, profiteering racket?

[Boiler 43,388]

Now there is only one problem which is overcoming the medical. Just between us it is way too easy to attack somebody we disagree with and say he or she is "mentally unstable" in the report, while smiling and denying information to the person we accused. But how to clear that? I am assuming they will be as paranoid and suspicious, as can be. To get cleared of any medical accusation, I would need to get medically cleared for travel to the US. I guess that is done for profit. How much could any psychiatrist charge for asking me silly questions based on his unscientific, pseudomedical, profiteering racket?

You were the one who said you were unwell.

I assume most of us assumed you are receiving medical help and that would be the documentation you would need to supply. It is likely that the Consulate would refer that to their own medical advisers.

You have quite a few other issues, top one is the asylum claim.

[MUXAGIRL 69]

US immigration is not perfect, but it is what it is. If you are coming to a foreign land, you must abide by their rules, however absurd that might sound to an outsider. I am curious as to why would want to come back here at all, after having such unsavory experience? There are enough scientific jobs in the EU, believe me it's not easy to get a job here in the scientific / engineering filed either, as US produces way too many PhDs and there are not enough jobs for even the U.S. produced PhDs.

Edited June 19, 2015 by MUXAGIRL

[researcher123 1]

You were the one who said you were unwell.

I assume most of us assumed you are receiving medical help and that would be the documentation you would need to supply. It is likely that the Consulate would refer that to their own medical advisers.

You have quite a few other issues, top one is the asylum claim.

Wait, the asylum claim or the credible fear? I was presented with the option to claim asylum, and I have refused. But I went through the credible fear procedure first. That could be a problem. I was mistaken with my assumptions. When I say I was unwell, that is because the CBP wrote "seemed mentally unstable", but the CBP really just meant that what I said was mistaken, and irrational. They obviously have this intimidating, exaggerated expression "mentally unstable" to punish you when they disagree with you. What *they* wrote was so crazy that anybody who reads it would believe the "mentally unstable" is true. I cannot even write it here.

The credible fear report is a real problem. Asylum is not my issue because I've never petitioned.

I said I was unwell, but only because I need some explanation when I am asked by people about the credible fear thing. What can I say when I have no explanation apart from how embarassing is it to have some fear and then find that it was all just being mistaken.

If anyone needs an explanation more explaining than what can be explained, that is a job for charlatans who can explain anything and everything, for as long as they get paid. Especially they explain what they do not understand. They do it very convincingly using word play and rhetoric. The talk is about situations when something happens to you and there is no explanation why it happened.

Historically the society sought answers in believing in gods, burning "witches" (innocent victims) for unusual things that happened, superstition, shamans, some people are very religious even today and worship someone or something beyond reasonable boundaries. And that is where these profiteering charlatans working in psychiatry make a fortune. In these modern days our modern society believes in the omnipotence and god-like properties of doctors of medicine. Everybody is influenced by the unregulated propaganda from doctors of rhetoric who promote themselves as gods (doctors of medicine) and are preaching religion about mental diseases according to DSM, which is whole a great work of fiction.

Nearly everybody believes doctors of medicine are right no matter what they say, and people assume these doctors know everything, no matter what they really know. These beliefs make it possible to endlessly profit on human problems. We say about others they are "unwell", we get paid for listening 5 minutes, and when we disagree with them we label them one or more of our invented fictious diseases.

Doctors of medicine lack any god-like properties, are ordinary people with a degree in health, have no idea why I had anything to do with credible fear, but regardless of the facts they can always explain everything because of the belief of our society that they know everything.

This is why today for every human problem there are 20 different diagnoses and different pills that in the better case are a placebo, and in the worst case a chemical restraint likened to a "chemical lobotomy".

My point is that I know as much about the metaphor of "mental health" that is purely rhetorical as those who abuse this rhetoric for power and profit. It is very good to say I am fit, always was, and that I have tried borrowing the "unwell" rhetoric to explain something hard to find any explanation for.

Playing with "mentally unstable" comes around, and "medical advisers" can kill themselves to be the first ones to make profit on it, providing their explanations for anything as a favorable rhetoric and invented ficious methaphorical diseases as an explanation of anything in the world, while charging heavy money. If you come unprepared, you will end up worse than I did in hands of CBP. These psychiatrists have nothing to do with science, health, or medicine. They are a rhetorical enterprise, not interested in the truth, just creating convincing rhetoric and applying it unscientifically, nonmedicaly to create strong-sounding false justifications and attach them using violence to a victim for life. These are then used for coercively drugging people into a semiconscous state. Their drugs are extremely harmful, very toxic, and have always tranquilizing or anesthetizing effects on said victims, as to avoid reciprocation and to avoid receiving any further complaints about the victim and from the victim. The psychiatrists are hyeenas helping themselves to money, and helping everybody else because there will be no more reasons to complain about the victim. It is not any disease which disables people, it is the psychiatrist who disables people using drugs that make them semiconscous and unable to defend. Meanwhile, money and powerful rhetoric are making charlatans filthy rich, just like uniting with the superpowerful pharmaceutical companies, lawyers, judges, immigration officers, all of that gives the psychiatrists lucrative careers, kickbacks from the pharma, billions of dollars on sold drugs that are considered highly toxic and very harmful, drugs that nobody needs, and our society trusts unquestionably these gods, doctors of medicine, all they say.

(Sorry, I could not help it but point out the scam artists who pretend they are practicing medicine when they are just rhetoricians, who only use medicine in form of drugs, and a street-dealer can sell drugs too, and he is actually more trustworthy than these fake doctors, his drugs actually make people feel good. The rhetoricians deceive by making themselves seem god-like super powerful, infallible, always right, knowing how to create convincing answers for everything in the world including for cases where there are no answers. Charlatans always know everything. The biggest help in the world for people who have something to do with the metaphorical rhetoric of "mental health" is to ban involuntary coercive treatment, and to acknowledge human rights, incl. that everybody is responsible for what he or she is doing.)

[Boiler 43,388]

What was the Credible Fear?

[researcher123 1]

US immigration is not perfect, but it is what it is. If you are coming to a foreign land, you must abide by their rules, however absurd that might sound to an outsider. I am curious as to why would want to come back here at all, after having such unsavory experience? There are enough scientific jobs in the EU, believe me it's not easy to get a job here in the scientific / engineering filed either, as US produces way too many PhDs and there are not enough jobs for even the U.S. produced PhDs.

I agree with you. My experience could have been the best holiday imaginable, 6 days near the beach in Los Angeles, in a beautiful hotel with a pool, palm trees around, and many other conveniences. If I sent any request for information about immigration into this forum instead of suggesting that I ask in person, or if I called the immigration lawyer from home, I would have a great holiday time, and nothing bad would happen. I have been punished too harsh, part of it is my fault that I did not know the US has such terrible problems with illegal immigrants.

Nevertheless, for many many years I have been thinking about topping up my career in the US. I have 9 years of experience in my special occupation field, that is in addition to the soon finished highest achievable education, and there are extremely few people in my field with so many skills. In every company more are needed. Useful knowledge creates new jobs, great products that improve peoples lives, and the biggest companies in the US always need more and more skilled professionals.

Now, without being able to attend conferences, make business trips, and with an uncertain ability to work in the US in the future, the top of my career will be forever struck off. I qualify for an immigration to the US unless the bummer with credible fear ruins it, to Canada (based on the program targeted at experts), and to Australia which has a similar program. I can freely work in all EU countries, now I am choosing the UK. But when I am finished there, I need things sorted to achieve the full potential in the US, and to benefit the US. It is a mutual benefit both for me and for the company where I will put my know-how to use, as well as for people who will use the products. I have already cooperated with US companied and have largely contributed. I love creating great things with great people. It would be foolish to give everything up for one ruined holiday.

Edited June 19, 2015 by researcher123

[Boiler 43,388]

What was the credible fear?

[Cathi 5,607]

What was the credible fear?

I keep asking the same thing, the OP is being elusive with his answers, he won;t even divulge which country he is from.

OP, I would love to know why you were coming here for a supposed 6 day vacation then all of a sudden tried to claim asylum because you were "unwell", you obviously knew before entering you were going to seek asylum. The whole situation seems convoluted and confusing, and by not answering what your credible fear was/is it seems like you are trying to hide something. You cannot expect to get any answers or help from members when you just keep talking in cryptic circles.

[sadavis5 46]

Fear of doctors and rhetoricians?

Maybe persecution by psychiatrists?