Israelis Were Asked to Name the ‘Worst’ U.S. President for Israel of the Last 40 Years. Guess Who They Chose.

[Tahoma 2,291]

The problem is, America is not ignorant. It's only a few patronizing, condescending people that think they are better than their fellow Americans who are ignorant.

^^^ You set the bar extremely low for defining ignorance. Most Americans don't even know who their local, state, and national reps are, so never mind discussing foreign policy, world events, or history with them. My European friends laugh about the average American's ignorance. They more accurately describe it as "willful ignorance."

[OriZ 3,157]

I rest my case.

^^^ You set the bar extremely low for defining ignorance. Most Americans don't even know who their local, state, and national reps are, so never mind discussing foreign policy, world events, or history with them. My European friends laugh about the average American's ignorance. They more accurately describe it as "willful ignorance."

[Expat1 971]

Oh, always do, always will. Israel will keep contributing more to the world than most countries which will keep driving you crazy, the US and Israel will keep being allies...and you and your other buddies that talk like they came from outer space will end up bitter, frustrated old people.

A Vermont moderate? Gary? lol actually despite the stigma of being a liberal haven, alot of people here are actually pretty moderate. I consider myself one as well. Some people on this forum will try to tell you that I'm extreme but that's only because they are like on the extreme left that you wouldn't even believe exists. My opinions on most things are actually moderate compared to most on both sides.

Oh, I also LOVE fighting ignorance in America. The problem is, America is not ignorant. It's only a few patronizing, condescending people that think they are better than their fellow Americans who are ignorant.

Your "marketing" of your so-called contributions will not change the fact that for thousands of years, different societies have tried to set themselves up to oppress others based on a misguided belief in their own racial and religious superiority at the expense of those around them and every single one has failed.

Israel, as all of the racist and oppressive societies before it, will either change these beliefs and practice new things or fail.

Me? I hope you succeed by setting up your own borders, staying inside your borders, and respecting the resources, borders, and property of your neighbors, and treating all of your citizens equally regardless of race or religion but I do not believe that you are capable of that. Doing so requires humility and there is no humility to be found in a society with an ingrained sense of their own superiority over others. Pathetic to watch - like watching someone walking around who's wet his pants but doesn't realize it - but not really an issue to go crazy over.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Expat1

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Oh, always do, always will. Israel will keep contributing more to the world than most countries which will keep driving you crazy, the US and Israel will keep being allies...and you and your other buddies that talk like they came from outer space will end up bitter, frustrated old people.

A Vermont moderate? Gary? lol actually despite the stigma of being a liberal haven, alot of people here are actually pretty moderate. I consider myself one as well. Some people on this forum will try to tell you that I'm extreme but that's only because they are like on the extreme left that you wouldn't even believe exists. My opinions on most things are actually moderate compared to most on both sides.

.

Same with me. Its called the Muddy left ditch of liberalism

[Tahoma 2,291]

I rest my case.

You don't have a case. You haven't offered even one shred of evidence to back your assertion that Americans aren't ignorant. You simply pulled your opinion out of thin air, and when you were called on it, you had nothing to back it up. Instead, you predictably went down the path of a failed argument...a personal attack. An epic fail!

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

You don't have a case. You haven't offered even one shred of evidence to back your assertion that Americans aren't ignorant. You simply pulled your opinion out of thin air, and when you were called on it, you had nothing to back it up. Instead, you predictably went down the path of a failed argument...a personal attack. An epic fail!

I don't know how he could read your replies and still not think some Americans are ignorant

[OriZ 3,157]

Pathetic to watch - like watching someone walking around who's wet his pants but doesn't realize it - but not really an issue to go crazy over.

Indeed, I agree. Some things - are just pathetic to watch(or read).

I don't know how he could read your replies and still not think some Americans are ignorant

I don't know how they don't get tired of spewing the same old same old hatred, ignorance, racism, incitement and bigotry, and yet at the same time claim they are against all those. Some people just baffle you, I tell ya.

[Expat1 971]

Indeed, I agree. Some things - are just pathetic to watch(or read).

I don't know how they don't get tired of spewing the same old same old hatred, ignorance, racism, incitement and bigotry, and yet at the same time claim they are against all those. Some people just baffle you, I tell ya.

Nothing baffling about people who spit on Christians because of their religious beliefs, allocate water according to racial background, throw stones at the accredited diplomats of their "allies", and use access to food and medical care to oppress and control others.

Nothing baffling about that at all. If you see me supporting or doing or justifying these actions, as you consistently do, they by all means please feel free to call me out for the "hatred, ignorance, racism, and bigotry" that these actions represent. Otherwise accept the label and move on.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Expat1

[OriZ 3,157]

The truth from the mouth of a Palestinian.

Ahh...how refreshing, you should try it sometimes.

During a lecture tour of South Africa some three months ago, Bassam Eid, a Palestinian resident of East Jerusalem and human rights activist, voiced harsh criticism of the BDS movement – and this in a country where the boycott campaign has particularly strong public support. "The leaders of the movement were stunned to hear a Palestinian who says that Israel is not an apartheid state," Eid says in an interview with Ynet's sister publication, Yedioth Ahronoth.

Eid's comments, which sparked widespread coverage in the local media, forced the Palestinian diplomatic mission in Pretoria to release a statement noting that Eid does not represent the Palestinians and that the Palestinian ambassador recognizes the importance of the BDS movement.

You're a strange bird, aren’t you?

"True," Eid says with a smile. "I'm a very strange bird. But it's the truth. Every word I say is based on facts."

Born in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem's Old City in 1958, Eid grew up in the Shuafat refugee camp in northeast Jerusalem and moved some 15 years ago to Beit Hanina in East Jerusalem.

In the late 1980s, he teamed up with the group of people who founded B'Tselem and worked for the organization for seven years. Thereafter, he set up a new human rights organization, the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group.

Unlike B'Tselem, Eid's organization focused only on human rights violations perpetrated by the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and the Hamas regime in the Gaza Strip.

"There are many human rights organizations in Israel, whereas there are and were hardly any organizations in the Palestinian Authority that monitored its actions in this regard," Eid says.

The beginning looked promising. Eid's organization received significant funding from European states and managed to employ researchers who operated in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Five years ago, however, things changed, and the funding from Europe came to an end.

"I think it happened because European policy in recent years has been to come down hard on Israel and not the Palestinian Authority," Eid says. "They view Israel as the main obstacle to the peace process and want to support the PA. One of the ways to show this support is to stop funding organizations that are critical of the PA."

Unable to survive without the funding, Eid's organization was shut down. Ever since, he's been traveling the world, lecturing and giving interviews, criticizing the PA, and, more recently, trying to explain to the world that the activities of the BDS movement are only undermining the dream of a Palestinian state.

Isn't it more natural for a Palestinian to support such actions?

"I'm opposed to the boycott because it only ends up harming the Palestinians themselves. Take, for example, the SodaStream plant in Mishor Adumim that is now moving some of its operations to Be'er Sheva. I've met with Palestinians who worked at the factory and were fired because of the move. They told me they were earning an average of NIS 5,000 a month there, and that today they are being offered salaries of just NIS 1,400 in the PA.

"People there are deep in debt because they have taken on long-term commitments based on the understanding that their work at the plant would continue; but reality has slapped them in the face because of the pressure created by BDS movement. Today, they are running between the courts and the bailiff offices and is anyone taking any notice of them? Do you think the boycott movement cares about them at all?"

Proponents of the boycott movement believe that economic pressure will force Israel to reach a peace settlement with the Palestinians and withdraw from the West Bank.

"I don't agree with that argument. Over the coming period, Israel is going to invest all its efforts in combatting the boycott, thus the option of peace negotiations won't be on the agenda at all. The proponents of the boycott, backed by the European states, have opened another front in the conflict, instead of investing all their efforts in the most important thing – negotiations."

But there were no negotiations over the past year.

"True, but opening a new front in the form of a boycott will only delay the opening of talks by another two or three years. They're claiming after all that there is apartheid in Israel, and therefore what worked in South Africa can work here too; but Israel is not an apartheid state."

Tainted with anti-Semitism

Many believe that the BDS movement is tainted with anti-Semitism, and Eid has no doubts in this regard. "There are many anti-Semitic elements that have hopped onto the BDS bandwagon," he says. "I wonder why those same people remain silent when Palestinians are slaughtered in the Yarmouk refugee camp in Syria. Of that I say: No Jews – no news. This is also the reason why the thing that bothers me the most is the fact that there are Jews among the BDS movement leadership."

Eid doesn't think the BDS movement has the ability to create a domino effect that would lead to intense international pressure on Israel. "Look how many apologies and clarifications have been published since Orange CEO Stephane Richard spoke out against Israel. " he says. "You have to understand – the balance of power between the BDS movement and Israel is the exact same as the balance of power between Hamas and Israel. Hamas will never defeat Israel in any war, and the same goes for the BDS movement. The Israeli public gives it a lot more credit and power than it actually deserves."

Eid notes, however, that nothing lasts forever. "The world remains relatively quiet when it comes to (human rights) violations perpetrated in the West Bank by Israel as a democratic state," he says. "This is convenient for the Israeli government, but the international pressure will come eventually. Nevertheless, I expect this pressure to come in the form of carrots, not sticks – for the world to make it clear to Israel what it will gain from ending the occupation rather than adopt boycotts that will only distance the dream of a Palestinian state."

So what do you see as the right solution?

"If the Israelis don't fight the occupation themselves, we will never be able to fight it. Instead of calls for a boycott, I'd like to see a million Jews standing outside the Prime Minister's Office in Jerusalem and demanding a solution that will put an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; but I know, too, that Netanyahu is a stubborn man and it won't be easy."

Do you think the Palestinian leadership sees you as a traitor?

"Maybe they think I'm a traitor or a collaborator or a CIA agent. I don't care. I know what pains the Palestinian man in the street and what really concerns him – and that's his economic security and not boycotts. Palestinian leaders like Jibril Rajoub are trying to use the boycott weapon to climb the political ladder. I go to Nablus, Bethlehem and Ramallah and know that many Palestinians agree with me."o

As a Palestinian, what is your message to the BDS movement?

"I want to tell them that we have had our fill of wars here; and as long as the Palestinian people aren't boycotting Israel, they don't need to do so for us."

Do you have criticism for Israel too?

"The Israeli public is a little dazed. It doesn't know who is leading it and where he is leading it to. The main problem is the occupation, and the Israelis have yet to internalize the fact that the occupation comes with a very high price, which the Israelis themselves will pay."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4667098,00.html

But...the Israel bashers don't really care about the Palestinians or about human rights. No no...I've proven that in countless conversations in the past. All they care about is bashing Israel for even breathing wrong. That, to me, is nothing but sheer hatred. There is a way to voice criticism and some people do it respectfully and I have no problem with that as I do it myself. But some people are just bigots in disguise and I've already shown that, in the past, too.

[OriZ 3,157]

Maybe you should actually read what I write from time to time, it might help you avoid making wrong assumptions. I've been very vocal against occupation for years. It's all over this forum too. There's a huge gap between legitimate criticism of Israel, or some of its policies, and obvious hatred, distortion, distraction and divertion, which is the group you belong in. All your pretending that acts committed by a tiny minority of Israelis, are unique to Israel, and don't happen anywhere else(as if no Jew has ever been spat on by a Christian in the US or anywhere else), and that they actually represent the people of Israel, are a pathetic attempt to paint the whole Israeli and Jewish population(with all your "rabbinic scripts"), distort the truth and incite against a whole people, and I've already ripped any shred of credibility from it in the past. Lucky for you, I'm too tired and busy to do that again. That, is not legitimate criticism. That is hatred and racism, that is what you're made of, those are YOUR values.

Edited June 21, 2015 by OriZ

[OriZ 3,157]

Same with me. Its called the Muddy left ditch of liberalism

I would probably put me in the right when it comes to guns. center-right when it comes to the economy. center when it comes to world affairs and politics and abortions(I don't think should be illegal but shouldn't be used as a form of birth control). center-left when it comes to health insurance and gay rights, and left when it comes to drugs and the death penalty. I think that about sums the major things up lol

I don't understand why some people feel the need to fit in an exclusive mold on everything instead of thinking for themselves.

[Jacque67 7,328]

Maybe you should actually read what I write from time to time, it might help you avoid making wrong assumptions. I've been very vocal against occupation for years. It's all over this forum too. There's a huge gap between legitimate criticism of Israel, or some of its policies, and obvious hatred, distortion, distraction and divertion, which is the group you belong in. All your pretending that acts committed by a tiny minority of Israelis, are unique to Israel, and don't happen anywhere else(as if no Jew has ever been spat on by a Christian in the US or anywhere else), and that they actually represent the people of Israel, are a pathetic attempt to paint the whole Israeli and Jewish population(with all your "rabbinic scripts"), distort the truth and incite against a whole people, and I've already ripped any shred of credibility from it in the past. Lucky for you, I'm too tired and busy to do that again. That, is not legitimate criticism. That is hatred and racism, that is what you're made of, those are YOUR values.

So true!

[TBoneTX 43,042]

A post has been removed, and the poster has been thread-banned and subjected to additional administrative action, for violation of these principles from the VJ Terms of Service:

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and

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In addition, another post has been removed for unnecessarily assaultive language; the poster may repost it without the two-word exclamation at the end, and perhaps with an explanation of the Latin phrase, for those who aren't familiar with the term.

Return to the original topic of the thread and stop bickering, or thread-bans or more will result. Thanks for your attention.

TBoneTX

VJ Moderation

Edited June 21, 2015 by TBoneTX

[iwannaplay54 985]

Maybe you should actually read what I write from time to time, it might help you avoid making wrong assumptions. I've been very vocal against occupation for years. It's all over this forum too. There's a huge gap between legitimate criticism of Israel, or some of its policies, and obvious hatred, distortion, distraction and divertion, which is the group you belong in. All your pretending that acts committed by a tiny minority of Israelis, are unique to Israel, and don't happen anywhere else(as if no Jew has ever been spat on by a Christian in the US or anywhere else), and that they actually represent the people of Israel, are a pathetic attempt to paint the whole Israeli and Jewish population(with all your "rabbinic scripts"), distort the truth and incite against a whole people, and I've already ripped any shred of credibility from it in the past. Lucky for you, I'm too tired and busy to do that again. That, is not legitimate criticism. That is hatred and racism, that is what you're made of, those are YOUR values.

Most people read what you write and ignore what you copy and paste

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You don't have a case. You haven't offered even one shred of evidence to back your assertion that Americans aren't ignorant. You simply pulled your opinion out of thin air, and when you were called on it, you had nothing to back it up. Instead, you predictably went down the path of a failed argument...a personal attack. An epic fail!

Here are the numbers:

One in four Americans do not know that the U.S. declared its independence from England. One in three cannot name a single branch of government. Three in four don’t know why the Civil War was fought. ...More than 90 percent of students take a civics class in high school, but on a national test given in 2010, only 27 percent of high school seniors demonstrated proficiency in the subject.

Fully a third of Americans cannot pass the US citizenship test that every immigrant has to pass to be naturalized. Speaking for myself, I did not need to study for that test since it only requires civic knowledge that's very, very basic in nature. And one only has to get 60% of the questions right - yes, 6 out of 10 and you pass. How, given that, one out of three citizens in this country could possibly fail that simple test is beyond me. What it does show is that ignorance is truly widespread in this country. And that's just US civics. Now try and get into world affairs and you're staring into the abyss.