Freddie Gray's Death Ruled A Homicide; Officers Will Face Murder Charges

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

the circumstances and location are not the same, this might turn out different.

his charges are mostly drug charges, and i can't tell you how many articles i've read recently talking about - stop putting people in jail for drugs/end the drug war.

did you read this? http://www.vice.com/read/david-simon-talks-about-where-the-baltimore-police-went-wrong-429

Reading it now. Not really surprised...

quite a lengthy one at that.

And yet, at the time of his so called arrest, he wasn't breaking the law...

[Ban Hammer 12,829]

and another wrench in the gears..........

A Fraternal Order of Police lodge is asking Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby to appoint a special prosecutor to the Freddie Gray investigation because of her personal connection to the Gray family's attorney, William H. "Billy" Murphy Jr., and her marriage to a city councilman.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-riots/bs-md-fop-letter-20150501-story.html

[yuna628 9,527]

So, I just read he has a criminal record. The chances these police men will be acquitted just went up about 80%...

Not denying or defending his criminal record, it certainly exists. However, many of the charges listed are stets or nolle prosequi. Essentially they claim to bring you in on charges, but can't really be bothered in proving those charges in a court of law. The charges remain on your record and are not exactly dropped, but yet you aren't prosecuted for them either.

Not entirely clear on the knife he was carrying. I presume since it was legal it would of been a swiss army type knife. Absolutely a farce that the BPD thought they would of gotten those charges to stick. He would of been released without charge, had he survived, in an effort to sweep the probable cause and false imprisonment charge under the rug.

Edited May 1, 2015 by yuna628

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Not denying or defending his criminal record, it certainly exists. However, many of the charges listed are stets or nolle prosequi. Essentially they claim to bring you in on charges, but can't really be bothered in proving those charges in a court of law. The charges remain on your record and are not exactly dropped, but yet you aren't prosecuted for them either.

Not entirely clear on the knife he was carrying. I presume since it was legal it would of been a swiss army type knife. Absolutely a farce that the BPD thought they would of gotten those charges to stick. He would of been released without charge, had he survived, in an effort to sweep the probable cause and false imprisonment charge under the rug.

Oh I know they aren't relevant to the present. But it's been a long standing habit when this happens to black men or women, whatever they can find in your past to paint you less than perfect is used. John Crawford's fiance was grilled for over 90 minutes because they were desperate to find anything they could use to say he caused his own death. Basically, backdating his shooting to fit some unrelated crime. They didn't find one, but his shooters are still free and remain on the force...

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Oh I know they aren't relevant to the present. But it's been a long standing habit when this happens to black men or women, whatever they can find in your past to paint you less than perfect is used. John Crawford's fiance was grilled for over 90 minutes because they were desperate to find anything they could use to say he caused his own death. Basically, backdating his shooting to fit some unrelated crime. They didn't find one, but his shooters are still free and remain on the force...

Why is it in almost every one of these cases the person has a criminal record, usually many incidents? I'm not suggesting that justifies the police actions in these cases, but these people all seem to have a history of being on the wrong side of the law. Why?

[decocker 7,198]

Why is it in almost every one of these cases the person has a criminal record, usually many incidents? I'm not suggesting that justifies the police actions in these cases, but these people all seem to have a history of being on the wrong side of the law. Why?

Why are so many Americans criminals? Look no further than Washington, which has spent the past century devising the most complicated — and nonsensical — criminal code known to man.

The federal criminal code includes over 4,500 laws and counting, not to mention government regulations for which there are criminal penalties. The list of federal crimes is so long, so broad and so vague that you and I likely commit three felonies every day, unwittingly breaking numerous federal laws as we go about our daily business.

No wonder America's prison population is out of control. Americans aren't addicted to crime; our politicians are addicted to criminalizing things.

Sadly, the criminalization of Americans also traps them in poverty. According to the Pew Charitable Trusts, incarceration leads to reduced wages (11% drop), employment (nine weeks lost annually), and earnings overall (40% annually). Making matters worse, over half of new prisoners are at or below the poverty line and three-quarters of former prisoners are sent back to jail within five years of their release.

The deck is stacked against my generation in particular. Young adults are 10% of the population yet comprise 29% of the country's arrests. Young African-Americans are particularly at risk: They're 15 times more likely to be in prison than whites. No wonder 18-to-29-year-olds have the lowest level of trust of any age group that our justice system treats everyone equally.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/20/opinions/feinberg-criminal-justice-reform/index.html

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Why is it in almost every one of these cases the person has a criminal record, usually many incidents? I'm not suggesting that justifies the police actions in these cases, but these people all seem to have a history of being on the wrong side of the law. Why?

John Crawford didn't have a record, and he was still killed. Nor did Tamir Rice, he was 12. You don't need to have a criminal record to have problems with the police if you're black. The 52 old granddad who was beaten almost to death didn't have a record either and the cops planted drugs in his car.

Like I said, preemptive target selection. If you have any type of record, makes it harder for the public to believe you're innocent. Not to mention, growing up in a place like B-more, you'd be hard pressed to not have a record...

[spookyturtle 9,465]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/20/opinions/feinberg-criminal-justice-reform/index.html

I think there are too many people in prisons and jails for petty offenses too. Steal a credit card and you go to jail, murder someone and you get off with probation. There are big problems with our criminal justice system and prisons too. Put a white collar criminal in with the murderers and violent criminals and they can't figure out why they are victimized. I firmly believe that there is a hard core group of criminals who can never be rehabilitated and are even a danger to their fellow murderers in prison. Once a guy is in for life, what happens to him when he kills his cellmate? He gets another life sentence. What's the deterrent for in prison murder and assault? Nothing. The ones committing murder in prison are animals.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

John Crawford didn't have a record, and he was still killed. Nor did Tamir Rice, he was 12. You don't need to have a criminal record to have problems with the police if you're black. The 52 old granddad who was beaten almost to death didn't have a record either and the cops planted drugs in his car.

Like I said, preemptive target selection. If you have any type of record, makes it harder for the public to believe you're innocent. Not to mention, growing up in a place like B-more, you'd be hard pressed to not have a record...

I know there have been some with no criminal history, but it seems like the big headline cases have some sort of lengthy rap sheet. It is hard for the public to believe someone is innocent if they have been arrest dozens of times. Innocent people don't get unjustly arrested 25 times. It could happen once but dozens? No way. Again, this doesn't justify police brutality, but many of these guys are trouble makers in some way.

[decocker 7,198]

I think there are too many people in prisons and jails for petty offenses too. Steal a credit card and you go to jail, murder someone and you get off with probation. There are big problems with our criminal justice system and prisons too. Put a white collar criminal in with the murderers and violent criminals and they can't figure out why they are victimized. I firmly believe that there is a hard core group of criminals who can never be rehabilitated and are even a danger to their fellow murderers in prison. Once a guy is in for life, what happens to him when he kills his cellmate? He gets another life sentence. What's the deterrent for in prison murder and assault? Nothing. The ones committing murder in prison are animals.

do the majority of americans think that jail serves to rehabilitate? i don't. you know since i'm a hippie i have very liberal ideas concerning crimes of property and prohibition. but even when someone kills another person, what exactly does giving them an extended adult time out do?

[spookyturtle 9,465]

do the majority of americans think that jail serves to rehabilitate? i don't. you know since i'm a hippie i have very liberal ideas concerning crimes of property and prohibition. but even when someone kills another person, what exactly does giving them an extended adult time out do?

Would you suggest letting the murders be exempt from punishment?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I know there have been some with no criminal history, but it seems like the big headline cases have some sort of lengthy rap sheet. It is hard for the public to believe someone is innocent if they have been arrest dozens of times. Innocent people don't get unjustly arrested 25 times. It could happen once but dozens? No way. Again, this doesn't justify police brutality, but many of these guys are trouble makers in some way.

But it helps when the cops brutalize or kill the person. Having a rap sheet pretty much validates whatever happens to the person on the receiving end. That's why I think, even though these cops did all these things wrong, his rap sheet is going to validate it in some way. It's damn near impossible to convict when you have no record. With one or more, it's pretty much a wrap.

A person is more than their record, with or without one. Esp when I see young men being treated like this and others who go on killing rampages and somehow get apprehended without any injury.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

But it helps when the cops brutalize or kill the person. Having a rap sheet pretty much validates whatever happens to the person on the receiving end. That's why I think, even though these cops did all these things wrong, his rap sheet is going to validate it in some way. It's damn near impossible to convict when you have no record. With one or more, it's pretty much a wrap.

A person is more than their record, with or without one. Esp when I see young men being treated like this and others who go on killing rampages and somehow get apprehended without any injury.

Gray was arrest something like 18 times. Does it mean he should die? NO. But it sure doesn't do his reputation much good. It seems like a lot of those arrested on killing rampages gave up without incident or didn't resist arrest.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Gray was arrest something like 18 times. Does it mean he should die? NO. But it sure doesn't do his reputation much good. It seems like a lot of those arrested on killing rampages gave up without incident or didn't resist arrest.

And yet, they murdered a score of people. Homes killed 17 and wounded 70. That's an incident right there. Frien killed a state trooper and wounded another one. On the run for months. No problems when they arrested him. Even that dude who killed his fiance and best friend ran up on the cop. He's still alive and in jail. The other half of the Boston Bombers? Killed 5 and wounded 300, he sits in a jail awaiting trial.

On the other side, you have black men, some with records, others without, but with a few common factors: Unarmed, and no one was killed, but those young black men were either killed or brutalized for broken tail lights or back child support.

There's an unusual amount of restraint used in the above mentioned cases. Every precaution is used, every preventive measure taken into account. And these dudes are armed and have murdered multiple people. But the cops make sure to follow the rule book to the letter and ensure those murderers get their day in court.

There's something really wrong when you can go on a killing spree and just put your hands up and rest assured the cops won't kill you. But someone like me, reaching for my wallet could actually mean a beatdown or even death.

[decocker 7,198]

Would you suggest letting the murders be exempt from punishment?

no, i'm saying we need to rethink how we punish if we expect rehabilitation.