Jump to content
James_and_JoAnne

US Citizenship - Why?

 Share

32 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Thailand
Timeline

Do all countries allow dual-citizenship? My wife is Thai and I believe she would need to forfeit her Thai citizenship to have a US citizenship and that would cause her to forfeit property in Thailand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anybody know if social security survivor benefits are impacted by citizenship? If a us citizen dies and his/her benefits would normally be paid to the spouse s survivor benefits, does a permanent resident get the money?

The surviving spouse gets the larger of their own benefits or their spouses' if they qualify for benefits (worked 40 quarters). That spouse can revice those benefits as long as they are a USC or LPR. If a LPR and they leave the US to return to their home country, they will lose their LPR status. Once they do that, they are no longer eligible for SSA benefits. So that is one more benefit of being a USC verses a LPR--SS benefits can be received anywhere in the world as a USC, but only in the US as a LPR.

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The main reason I have chosen to acquire US citizenship is because I have minor US citizen children. I don't want to ever be found in the position that I couldn't live in the same country as my children. After that my main reason is to just be done with USCIS for good.

05/01 - Married USC

06/01 - Filed I-130/I-485

01/03 - Conditional LPR approved

05/05 - Conditions removed

12/13 - Divorced USC

10/10/14 - Filed N-400 based on 5+yrs LPR

10/24/14 - NOA

11/12/14 - Fingerprinted

11/14/14 - In line e-notification

12/01/14 - E-notification of interview scheduled

12/05/14 - Received interview letter - Interview scheduled for January 8th.

01/08/15 - Passed citizenship interview and recommended for approval!

01/19/15 - In line for oath ceremony

02/19/15 - Oath scheduled for March 6th, 2015!

03/06/15 - Became a US citizen! :dancing:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Poland
Timeline

My fiance hasnt gotten to that point yet gut citizenship for us would no one, nor any government can separate us ever again. Visas will never cause us to be apart.

Yes, it can. People got revoked their US citizenship and deported from US for certain crimes. You really need to try, but it's possible,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Filed: Other Country: England
Timeline

Do all countries allow dual-citizenship? My wife is Thai and I believe she would need to forfeit her Thai citizenship to have a US citizenship and that would cause her to forfeit property in Thailand.

Absolutely not; many countries do not allow it. Interestingly, China is an example: If you gain citizenship elsewhere you lose chinese, so the OP's wife would need to choose between the US and China. For me, it would be a no brainer, but I'm not Chinese, so rather biased.

None for Thailand I'm afraid: http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_THAILAND.html

From a selfish perspective gaining US citizenship locks you down here and ensures you cannot be deported. Even otherwise pathetically little benign things can have large consequences for an LPR. Maybe one day you accidentally register to vote (only register--never even vote), for example, when applying for a driver's license (it's happened to people who didn't quite know any better). If this is ever found out by immigration you are now facing a lifetime ban from the country. Or you apply for a job and fill in the wrong box. Ultimately, if you're an LPR there is always a slight precariousness to your standing here. But that aside, if my native citizenship was to, for lack of a better word, a ####### country (I won't name names, we know what they are), I'd want US citizenship as soon as I could get it, without exception.

So that is one more benefit of being a USC verses a LPR--SS benefits can be received anywhere in the world as a USC, but only in the US as a LPR.

Wow, I didn't know that. So in my above scenario, you've been in the US 30 years piling money into SS, then you register to vote one day while you're not paying attention, somebody finds out, you're booted from the country and lose status, and now you cannot even get any of those SS benefits. Yikes!

Yes, it can. People got revoked their US citizenship and deported from US for certain crimes. You really need to try, but it's possible,

Yes, strictly speaking naturalized citizens are not citizens as securely as native. I cannot join the communist party for several years after becoming a citizen, for example (heh, I don't intend to). Also lying on one's application, if it's ever found out, can also force loss of citizenship. But as you say, it's rare. The US is certainly not in the habit of pulling people's citizenships in large numbers and, short of becoming president, you have everything else opened up to you that a native-born does.

I think the only reasons NOT to apply for citizenship--or at least think more on it are:

1) You may lose citizenship in your native country

2) You are thinking you may move out of the US in the future and don't want to be filing US taxes (the only major country in the world to require this of citizens abroad)

Edited by ExPatty

Good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Filed: Timeline

They will not do that much. I had a bad experience in Thailand once. All they would do is make a phone call and if no one answer they say sorry is there someone else you will like to call. I wound up leaving the embassy,as they were of no help to me. Lucky my phone is unlock and I had enough money to buy a sim card there and was able to get a hold of someone I knew from the states. that has relatives in Bangkok. I had to wait in front of the embassy for about 3 hours, as I did not have enough money to do anything else, But I do not think the embassy really help me at all. The guy did not seem to really care what happen.

You forgot to ask for the Nano-Probe Hornets to be dispatched to create a protective repatriation bubble around you. It's an optional service, but only available if your income is under < 15,000 per year for 10 consecutive years or more!!!

Registering travel with state or having any expectations of them if problems strike is foolhardy.

If you travel on a DIP of OFF passport, you will find help. although its "amazing" how many of the situations simply don't occur if you happen to be travelling on the black eagle!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Getting back to the OP's question:

When I got a green card, I had no intention of becoming a USC - mostly because of the tax consequences. The passport wasn't a big draw because it's actually more restrictive than traveling on a British passport (Americans need a visa for Brazil for example).

However since I've been living here, realising that I'm likely to stay and becoming increasingly disillusioned about the political situation in the US - I realised I have no right to complain if I'm not a citizen, so decided to apply. It wasn't an easy choice but eventually the pros outweighed the cons. (I was also sick of 'taxation without representation' :-) )

Edited by NikosF

08/12/2010 => Day 00 => Package sent to Chicago lockbox

08/13/2010 => Day 01 => Package received and signed for in Chicago

08/23/2010 => Day 11 => Email and Text receipt notification

08/23/2010 => Day 11 => Cheques cashed - $1010 and $355

08/26/2010 => Day 14 => NOAs received in the mail

08/30/2010 => Day 18 => Received biometrics appointment letter (for 9/23)

09/03/2010 => Day 22 => Did walk-in biometrics

09/16/2010 => Day 35 => Received interview letter for 10/21

10/15/2010 => Day 64 => AP received

10/20/2010 => Day 69 => EAC received

10/21/2010 => Day 70 => AOS Interview, approved, I-551 stamp and card production ordered

10/30/2010 => Day 79 => Green card received

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Filed: Timeline

Talk to an expat focused accountant re: Citizen....... There are many other issues to consider:

If you decide to go live/work outside of the U.S. again and:

your wife holds LPR for less than (10 or 15 cant' remember) you can cancel the LPR and then she will not be subject to U.S. Global Income rules or FBAR, filing etc. without having to do the full EXIT TAX STATEMENT. If long term LPR, there would be the exiting statements, etc.

If she is a Citizen - She has the paperwork for life !!! Global income taxation. More work to renounce. Her foreign income taxable, but can get foreign earned income exclusion via 330 day physical presence test only.

THEN AGAIN, if you think she will TEMPORARILY LIVE ABROAD IN FUTURE (then USC is probably better)

1. LPR cannot be Bona Fide foreign residence for Foreign Earned Income Test and LPR must have intent to return of forfeit LPR. This means physical presence test only (330 day) which can complicate life living overseas. (Unforeseen medical, family emergency, etc. ) Having to time family visits around lost time in the skies is a pain.

2. USC can choose to Domicile overseas. Can be Bona Fide or Physical Presence Test for Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. Can stay away as long as desired and return whenever desired. Renouncing is not so easy, so think of it as a lifetime attachment.

IF YOU THINK THE US EXPERIMENT MAY END IN 1-5 YEARS: You might want to keep her as LPR.

That being said, there are many reasons to deport LPRs and she'll feel like a guest forever. Almost 100,000 LPRs have been deported in the last 10 years, most with families. There is a NO DISCRETION PERMITTED BY IJ if sentencing guideline is 1+ years and it could be Drunk Driving in some states.

I saw reference to the inheritance issue, also a very good point.

There is no perfect answer. Do you own reading and make a good decision by understanding the Pro's and Con's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Filed: Timeline

Do all countries allow dual-citizenship? My wife is Thai and I believe she would need to forfeit her Thai citizenship to have a US citizenship and that would cause her to forfeit property in Thailand.

The dual-citizen Thai children can hold both as they Don't take an oath. The kids can hold house and business title if you are worried.

The wife takes a risk, but there is no active enforcement of this in Thailand to where naturalizing and holding both is quite common.

Edited by asisflyer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
Filed: K-1 Visa Country: China
Timeline

Talk to an expat focused accountant re: Citizen....... There are many other issues to consider:

If you decide to go live/work outside of the U.S. again and:

your wife holds LPR for less than (10 or 15 cant' remember) you can cancel the LPR and then she will not be subject to U.S. Global Income rules or FBAR, filing etc. without having to do the full EXIT TAX STATEMENT. If long term LPR, there would be the exiting statements, etc.

If she is a Citizen - She has the paperwork for life !!! Global income taxation. More work to renounce. Her foreign income taxable, but can get foreign earned income exclusion via 330 day physical presence test only.

THEN AGAIN, if you think she will TEMPORARILY LIVE ABROAD IN FUTURE (then USC is probably better)

1. LPR cannot be Bona Fide foreign residence for Foreign Earned Income Test and LPR must have intent to return of forfeit LPR. This means physical presence test only (330 day) which can complicate life living overseas. (Unforeseen medical, family emergency, etc. ) Having to time family visits around lost time in the skies is a pain.

2. USC can choose to Domicile overseas. Can be Bona Fide or Physical Presence Test for Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. Can stay away as long as desired and return whenever desired. Renouncing is not so easy, so think of it as a lifetime attachment.

IF YOU THINK THE US EXPERIMENT MAY END IN 1-5 YEARS: You might want to keep her as LPR.

That being said, there are many reasons to deport LPRs and she'll feel like a guest forever. Almost 100,000 LPRs have been deported in the last 10 years, most with families. There is a NO DISCRETION PERMITTED BY IJ if sentencing guideline is 1+ years and it could be Drunk Driving in some states.

I saw reference to the inheritance issue, also a very good point.

There is no perfect answer. Do you own reading and make a good decision by understanding the Pro's and Con's.

Lots of great responses and information provided to my original post, thank you all for your comments and suggestions.

I was surprised to hear that there is a six month time limit on starting the Citizen process if she later wants to apply for a US government job.'

The info on the inheritance and tax consequences is really interesting as well!

Will followup when she makes her decision.

James

Edited by James_and_JoAnne

event.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They will not do that much. I had a bad experience in Thailand once. All they would do is make a phone call and if no one answer they say sorry is there someone else you will like to call. I wound up leaving the embassy,as they were of no help to me. Lucky my phone is unlock and I had enough money to buy a sim card there and was able to get a hold of someone I knew from the states. that has relatives in Bangkok. I had to wait in front of the embassy for about 3 hours, as I did not have enough money to do anything else, But I do not think the embassy really help me at all. The guy did not seem to really care what happen.

Wow, really stinks for you, alas. I've had excellent experiences with the US Embassies in Asia and Europe. Exception, not rule, I reckon in your case. Better luck next time maybe.

Yes, it can. People got revoked their US citizenship and deported from US for certain crimes. You really need to try, but it's possible,

The prevalence of de-naturalization is so statistically rare, not worth getting nervous about (unless you really screwed your N400 and lied).

Being a US citizen one: can live outside the USA without having to worry about preserving one's resident status as an LPR;

can't get deported;

have easy access travel to more than 140 countries;

does not need to renew the costly LPR card and go through the hassles of biometrics;

can vote in Federal elections; and

can apply to jobs reserved only for USCs (air traffic controllers, most Federal jobs, etc.)

Some of the few benefits I can think of when becoming a USC.

100% Naturalized U.S.D.A. Prime American

proud_filipino_american_trucker_hat.jpg?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would never have been taken U.S Citzizenship with giving up my German one which lets me work in the whole European Union without any hassle.

The message is garbled, so it's hard to really say what you mean. Germany and the U.S. recognize the concept of multiple nationality. You can have both. If you're not happy with your decision with naturalizing as an American, you can renounce it if you want - no one is compelled to naturalize as a US citizen.

100% Naturalized U.S.D.A. Prime American

proud_filipino_american_trucker_hat.jpg?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Poland
Timeline

Yeah as someone holding a EU passport, I would definitely not give it up if my home country forced me to while naturalizing. However, luckily Poland recognized dual citizenship so no problem.

Personally, I am interested in travel to countries where US citizenship would be more problematic than Polish (like North Korea), but green card is just as problematic, so that doesn't really change much in those terms.

Paradoxically, becoming a US citizen gives you more freedom to... live abroad. But live abroad and be able to return. This is probably the biggest reason for me to become a US citizen. If I ever decide to live in Europe again, I don't have to worry about obtaining a B2 to come here - a place I nonetheless grew up in (since 13 years old) and is at least to some extent my home.

That, and the fact that if you lose a passport, it costs $110 to replace, while greencard costs ~$500 ;)

But all good reasons discussed in this thread. Bottom line - if you can keep your home country's citizenship, naturalizing is a total no brainer.

Edited by Barciur
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
Didn't find the answer you were looking for? Ask our VJ Immigration Lawyers.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
- Back to Top -

Important Disclaimer: Please read carefully the Visajourney.com Terms of Service. If you do not agree to the Terms of Service you should not access or view any page (including this page) on VisaJourney.com. Answers and comments provided on Visajourney.com Forums are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Visajourney.com does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. VisaJourney.com does not condone immigration fraud in any way, shape or manner. VisaJourney.com recommends that if any member or user knows directly of someone involved in fraudulent or illegal activity, that they report such activity directly to the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement. You can contact ICE via email at Immigration.Reply@dhs.gov or you can telephone ICE at 1-866-347-2423. All reported threads/posts containing reference to immigration fraud or illegal activities will be removed from this board. If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by contacting us here with a url link to that content. Thank you.
×
×
  • Create New...