Cuba and USA to reestablish diplomatic relations.

[JohnR! 5,495]

There has been some opposition to this move by the US but it's shrouded in personal retaliation and emotion, whereas in this instance one needs to think pragmatically.

Russia is collapsing and if we don't act fast, chances are Cuba might align itself with the likes of Venezuela, or worse, for it own survival. While the rhetoric about freedom and human rights is sweet, the truth of the matter is that it behooves the US and the entire hemisphere to keep Cuba close and ease them into a democracy, lest we face ourselves with a civil war or a revolution right in our backyard. Worse than that, the US can't allow a US-hostile Cuba to cozy up to the likes of China, North Korea, Libya, Lebanon, Iran or Syria and become a breeding ground for terrorists - this IMHO is the real reason for this move by the US. We need an embassy in Havana, consulates in other cities and all the intelligence apparatus that go with these installations. We need to know what is happening only a few miles off the coast of the mainland, and if we get to oust the Castro clan in the process, so much the better for the Cubans.

The policies towards Cuba were designed to crush the Castro regime thus eliminating the western hemisphere outpost of the Soviet Union and - this is more propaganda than anything - bring freedom to the Cuban people. Obviously, the Soviet Union ceased to exist a couple decades back. So that leaves the crushing of the Castro regime as a goal of the US Cuba policy. Gotta ask yourself: Has that policy been effective in getting closer to achieving that goal over the last 50 years? The simple answer to that question is: no, it hasn't.

So, Republicans will push to continue the same policy - expecting a different outcome, of course. Say, what was the definition of insanity again?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I was agreeing with you until you had to go and make it political. Who instittued this embargo and kept it in place for decades? That's right, both Republicans AND Democrats. So I guess they're equally insane. You really should try and look at things objectiviely. Try it once a week, and then go from there. Baby steps.

Yes, both Democrats and Republicans have pursued this insane Cuba approach for decades. It appears Democrats are prepared to return to sanity on the issue while Republicans quite obviously are not. They rather remain insane. And that, my friend, is an objective look at the situation.

[VOL 425]

I have always wanted to visit Cuba, It might be the next party place like Mexico used to be.

We grew up hitting the ####### houses in Boys Town in our younger days and then as we aged we did the all inclusive in Cancun, Good times and very cheap cost.

Sadly I have not been to Mexico for many years, I hope Cuba becomes a party place for American to go to.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

They're still an oppressive regime today. They lock up political opponents without charges etc. etc. They dumped a bunch of criminals and mental patients in to Miami in the early 80s. The Castro brothers are ruthless dictators, make no mistake about that. The argument is what is the best way to deal with them? Isolate them, and then they can blame everything on the sanctions (which hasn't seemed to work well for the U.S.) or let trade flow freely? WIth trade comes new ideas, and hopefully political change.

The exiles in Miami are angry about this decsision because they view it as caving in to Castro. They have a valid point, but it's been 50 years. TIme to move on.

As does China and Russia and any number of regimes that we have diplomatic and economic relations with. That cannot be taken seriously as an argument against normalizing relations with Cuba.

[JohnR! 5,495]

We missed a great opportunity when Gorbachev opened the USSR to the world. The US should have gone after Cuba back then. With the support of a saner Russia we should have been there already.

Yes, both Democrats and Republicans have pursued this insane Cuba approach for decades. It appears Democrats are prepared to return to sanity on the issue while Republicans quite obviously are not. They rather remain insane. And that, my friend, is an objective look at the situation.

[Teddy B 17,251]

As does China and Russia and any number of regimes that we have diplomatic and economic relations with. That cannot be taken seriously as an argument against normalizing relations with Cuba.

This is pretty much exactly what I said to my boss yesterday when he came out complaining that Obama can't do this because Cuba treats it's people badly.

I wanted to tell him to save some of his feigned outrage for Hillary in 2016.

[decocker 7,198]

I wanted to tell him to save some of his feigned outrage for Hillary in 2016.

that's what i'm saving up for.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Right on the money. I'm still to hear anyone in Washington propose a full economic embargo to China and bring jobs back to the US. The only reason there is opposition on both sides of the aisle is to appease the Cuban community in So. Florida.

As does China and Russia and any number of regimes that we have diplomatic and economic relations with. That cannot be taken seriously as an argument against normalizing relations with Cuba.

This is pretty much exactly what I said to my boss yesterday when he came out complaining that Obama can't do this because Cuba treats it's people badly.

I wanted to tell him to save some of his feigned outrage for Hillary in 2016.

[Teddy B 17,251]

that's what i'm saving up for.

My boss is a good guy to work for, but when it comes to politics he is more predictable than the sunrise. Anything Democrat related is bad, anything Republican is good. Anything Obama related is double down bad!

[Karee 4,189]

As does China and Russia and any number of regimes that we have diplomatic and economic relations with. That cannot be taken seriously as an argument against normalizing relations with Cuba.

Uggh. You do realize that the U.S. doesn't decide who to normalize relations with, based on their human rights records alone, don't you? They look at the benefit as a whole. If they play nice, they're rewarded. If not, they're slapped (See Russia recently) Carrot and stick. I'm surprised that you don't understand all this. PM me and I'll reccommend some reading materials. Be sure to pass them on to your lap dog when finished.

Right on the money.

Thank you for making my point. You're so predictable.

[decocker 7,198]

My boss is a good guy to work for, but when it comes to politics he is more predictable than the sunrise. Anything Democrat related is bad, anything Republican is good. Anything Obama related is double down bad!

i really wish we could get a third party up with the front runners, like with a real chance. two sides of the same coin is old.

[Teddy B 17,251]

i really wish we could get a third party up with the front runners, like with a real chance. two sides of the same coin is old.

Agreed, it's long overdue.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Uggh. You do realize that the U.S. doesn't decide who to normalize relations with, based on their human rights records alone, don't you? They look at the benefit as a whole. If they play nice, they're rewarded. If not, they're slapped (See Russia recently) Carrot and stick. I'm surprised that you don't understand all this. PM me and I'll reccommend some reading materials. Be sure to pass them on to your lap dog when finished.

Tell me, what was the benefit as a whole of our Cuba policy over the last 20 years? Cuban people better off today than they were then due to our policies? IS the Cuban regime any better today than it was then due to our policies?

And that "play nice" angle doesn't really work either. China has gone on just fine after the Tiananmen Square massacre. Russia got away with multiple wars in Chechnya. We don't need to discuss the lack of democracy and the ongoing human rights violations in either country. Cuba has done nothing nearly as bad as either of these two countries. If anyone has been "playing nice", it was Cuba.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Someday you will be able to command the English language to the extent where you will be able to make your point on your own, without revision, redaction or assistance.

Thank you for making my point. You're so predictable.

[Karee 4,189]

Someday you will be able to command the English language to the extent where you will be able to make your point on your own, without revision, redaction or assistance.