"Stop blaming Israel and wake up: The black flag of jihad is the REAL threat to the world"

[decocker 7,198]

I am proud to fight for the most moral army in the world.

[Asia 2,491]

If they wanted to do that they would have easily done it by now.

Comparing Israel to Germany can either be out of ignorance or anti semitism, there is no third option.

You sure?

IMHO they enjoy how slowly they're playing the whole thing, and the whole world sees them as the victims.

Yeah, call me ignorant or antisemite. I've heard that all before. After all I'm from Poland.

BTW, if people don't like Jews, they can't simply don't like them, they're called antisemites.

But what about those who don't like Russians or Germans?

Or are the Jews so unique that they needed a special word to classify people who merely don't like them as a nation?

Edited August 27, 2014 by Asia

[OriZ 3,157]

What I find particularly funny(yet sad at the same time) is that people will use every excuse in the book in order to not educate themselves. First, they complain that you copy paste too much. So that's an excuse to not read it. They want you to write it in your own words. Then, you write it in your own words so they call it wall of text. Why? Cause it's easier for lazy people to convince themselves there's nothing actually worthwhile to read in what was posted, that way they can feel better with themselves even though they denied themselves the opportunity to understand the situation. And then they can keep going on with their ignorance, how easy.

Maybe we should add an I to the three d's...Ignore, Distract, Divert, Distort.

[decocker 7,198]

What I find particularly funny(yet sad at the same time) is that people will use every excuse in the book in order to not educate themselves. First, they complain that you copy paste too much. So that's an excuse to not read it. They want you to write it in your own words. Then, you write it in your own words so they call it wall of text. Why? Cause it's easier for lazy people to convince themselves there's nothing actually worthwhile to read in what was posted, that way they can feel better with themselves even though they denied themselves the opportunity to understand the situation. And then they can keep going on with their ignorance, how easy.

Maybe we should add an I to the three d's...Ignore, Distract, Divert, Distort.

do you think it's possible that some people have educated themselves and even bother to read your posts but simply don't want to read about idf being the most moral army in the world? that letter from the american idf soldier was just too much.

Edited August 27, 2014 by val erie

[Karee 4,189]

What I find particularly funny(yet sad at the same time) is that people will use every excuse in the book in order to not educate themselves. First, they complain that you copy paste too much. So that's an excuse to not read it. They want you to write it in your own words. Then, you write it in your own words so they call it wall of text. Why? Cause it's easier for lazy people to convince themselves there's nothing actually worthwhile to read in what was posted, that way they can feel better with themselves even though they denied themselves the opportunity to understand the situation. And then they can keep going on with their ignorance, how easy.

Maybe we should add an I to the three d's...Ignore, Distract, Divert, Distort.

We get it. You think Israel is in the right here. No need to post 80 paragraphs that you copy pasted from somewhere else over and over and over.

[OriZ 3,157]

Those who read it and disagree that's fine - I don't think they are right but that's fine - it's their choice. But there are some who make it very clear it is just "too much for them to read"...well then you really don't know how to have a debate then.

To the point - in that particular letter, he tells a story, and there are many other stories like that, that are never told. Only things that paint all soldiers badly are told - even though those happen in every army in the world. In his opinion as a soldier, and in my opinion as a former soldier, I do think it is if not the most moral then one of the most moral armies in the world. Armies by definition cannot be absolutely moral - this is not an absolute but a relative claim. You don't have to agree, that's alright by me.

[decocker 7,198]

To the point - in that particular letter, he tells a story, and there are many other stories like that, that are never told. Only things that paint all soldiers badly are told - even though those happen in every army in the world. In his opinion as a soldier, and in my opinion as a former soldier, I do think it is if not the most moral then one of the most moral armies in the world. Armies by definition cannot be absolutely moral - this is not an absolute but a relative claim. You don't have to agree, that's alright by me.

sure. i'm sure there are a ton of stories from the israeli army that never get told. but i think there are ~2100 or so from the other side that've been permanantly silenced. so much for morals.

[OriZ 3,157]

Point out what other army fared better in similar situations, how and why, and then maybe you'll be able to refute it. Until then...

[decocker 7,198]

Point out what other army fared better in similar situations, how and why, and then maybe you'll be able to refute it. Until then...

why? it's not a competition anyone can win, that's what makes the statement icky. war is immoral.

[novedsac 355]

We get it. You think Israel is in the right here. No need to post 80 paragraphs that you copy pasted from somewhere else over and over and over.

What else do you expect from someone who cannot think for themself?

[OriZ 3,157]

why? it's not a competition anyone can win, that's what makes the statement icky. war is immoral.

Which is why I wrote we are not talking about absolute terms but rather relative.

What else do you expect from someone who cannot think for themself?

[decocker 7,198]

Which is why I wrote we are not talking about absolute terms but rather relative.

i'm sorry, what are you telling me that we are talking about and how i should respond?

[Expat1 971]

I see people here practice the Three D's well...Distraction, Diversion, Distortion.

You left out wall O' text and smelling up the room with propaganda "dumps".

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think it is entirely possible to be opposed to the extremists in ISIS etc. and yet still criticise the Israeli government for human rights abuses in Gaza.

They are mutually exclusive after all...

[Expat1 971]

Those who read it and disagree that's fine - I don't think they are right but that's fine - it's their choice. But there are some who make it very clear it is just "too much for them to read"...well then you really don't know how to have a debate then.

To the point - in that particular letter, he tells a story, and there are many other stories like that, that are never told. Only things that paint all soldiers badly are told - even though those happen in every army in the world. In his opinion as a soldier, and in my opinion as a former soldier, I do think it is if not the most moral then one of the most moral armies in the world. Armies by definition cannot be absolutely moral - this is not an absolute but a relative claim. You don't have to agree, that's alright by me.

Stories like this one?

I wonder why when we compare you to Nazis we are anti-Semitic. When former IDF soldiers compare you to Nazis (1) I don't know em but I sure agree with 'em and (2) seems it isn't so anti-Semitic after all.

Dam - your people even assign soldiers to issue propaganda to other soldiers. That's messed up.

http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/database/57738

Usually we did these "value analyses". I mean, there wasn't some prescribed de-briefing on which we'd place some educational frame, some values, but rather these incidents that involved human dignity and such, we'd simply write it up ourselves, the whole thing. It also seemed pretty pretentious to me to scold them, tell them it was out of line. One of my assignments was to always issue various propaganda bulletins. I don't know, I felt like the propaganda minister of the Nazis or something. It was this really fascist stuff, I had to tell them what value they had violated in what they did, why this was important and why we should never this again. Practically speaking, who am I and do I think I am, I who have no idea of values, or of warfare, and what good would it do, anyway. I mean, they are obliged to do these things, and if something doesn't break inside you, like I said earlier, then you simply can't function. So you'll get discharged on psychological grounds, or you'll be a conscientious objector, or you'll shoot yourself in the head, or something will break and you'll turn into some, I don't know… Frankly, I'd sit there facing this "Spirit of the IDF" document and try to analyze the values and simply couldn't believe a word I read there and I couldn't care less because it seemed to me so totally unconnected, so detached, and not about what the hell we're doing in this place. If we're in this place then what is the point of talking values? Morals and war don't go together.