Confusion about birth certificates

[googolplex 7]

HI, my fiancée just went to a notarial service (Gong Zheng Chu) in Guangzhou to ask about the birth certificate. Apparently, there are 2 types of birth certificates: a certificate created by the notarial service using the applicant’s supplied information (i.e. date of birth, Hukou book, etc.); and a certificate proves that the birth certificate from the hospital where my fiancée was born is legit. My fiancée tried to contact the US embassy via phone in Guangzhou to clarify this issue, but she was ignored and told to visit www.ustraveldocs.com. She also tried to visit the US embassy in Guangzhou and was denied by the security forces outside the embassy. I am just wondering which type of the birth certificates the US embassy is really looking for. Thanks.

[Pitaya 2,576]

Welcome to the forum.

You will need to obtain the "Notarial Certificate" (AKA White Book) format from the notariial service. The US Consulate (DOS) and USCIS both recognize and accept the White Books for documentation purposes, and they will very likely reject the hospital form. Refer to the pinned thread, Chinese Marriage Visa Terms and Definitions, at the top of the forum more details. I would recommend that you consider obtaining several White Books at that time. They may come in handy later, and it is much easier to obtain them now, rather than after she has immigrated to the US.

BTW, there is only one US embassy, that is in Beijing. There is a US consulate in Guangzhou, and there are other consulates in other parts of the country.

Good luck on your immigration journey.

Edited August 19, 2014 by A&B

[googolplex 7]

Welcome to the forum.

You will need to obtain the "Notarial Certificate" (AKA White Book) format from the notariial service. The US Consulate (DOS) and USCIS both recognize and accept the White Books for documentation purposes, and they will very likely reject the hospital form. Refer to the pinned thread, Chinese Marriage Visa Terms and Definitions, at the top of the forum more details. I would recommend that you consider obtaining several White Books at that time. They may come in handy later, and it is much easier to obtain them now, rather than after she has immigrated to the US.

BTW, there is only one US embassy, that is in Beijing. There is a US consulate in Guangzhou, and there are other consulates in other parts of the country.

Good luck on your immigration journey.

Thanks for the reply. I think the birth certificate from a city-level “Gong Zheng Chu” is a part of the "white book". Birth Certificate, Marriage Certificate, Police Records and their English versions obtained from a city-level “Gong Zheng Chu” are put together and called "white book". Please correct me if I am wrong. Is there a terminology for "white book" in Chinese? I know Chinese, but the direct translation of “white book” to Chinese doesn’t sound like an official term.

I have read the pinned thread, but the staff from “Guangzhou(city-level) Gong Zheng Chu” told my fiancee that if he were to follow word by word of this sentence “The certificate must also indicate that the public office extracted the information from official records.” in Packet 3, "a certificate proves that the birth certificate from the hospital where my fiancée was born is legit" is more proper. Although the staff from the Gong Zheng Chu said the decision of which type of birth certificate to make is up to my fiancee.

[Pitaya 2,576]

This is a very often asked question on this regional forum. See if this thread from this past spring is of use to you:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/488817-trouble-obtaining-birth-certificate-in-china/

[googolplex 7]

Thanks for your help. But it is not quite relevant to my situation. My fiancee can obtain either type of birth certificate with no problem. The question is which type. I am disappointed by how rude Guangzhou Consulate is by ignoring my fiancee on phone and in person.

[Pitaya 2,576]

All I can tell you is what we successfully used in June 2012 to obtain a K1 and K2 visa for my then-fiancee and her son at the US Consulate in Guangzhou. We used the Notarial Certificates as I have previously described to you. The information abstracted was from my wife's family hukou. The choice is yours.

Since the advent of usatraveldocs.com (CGI Stanley) contacting the US consulate has gotten more difficult. If you have visited the Guangzhou consulate it may help you understand the need for insulation of the consulate staff from the sea of people trying to get into the consulate every day. It is certainly something to behold. I am not making excuses, just awakening you to reality of dealing with the Guangzhou consulate and environs.

Good luck on your immigration journey.

[googolplex 7]

If we are not able to find a clear answer, we may have to obtain both types of birth certificates.

[RandyW 149]

Chinese Notarial Documents - see DOS China Reciprocity Schedule

NOTE:Try http://travel.state..../fees_3272.html or go to http://travel.state.gov/ and search for "Reciprocity by Country" (they seem to change this periodically)

Most of the documents needed can be obtained from one of China's Notarial Offices (Gong Zheng Chu). All Chinese documentation to be used abroad is processed through the notary offices and issued in the form of notarial certificates. Notarial offices are located in all major Chinese cities and in rural county seats

The documents required are the GongZhengShu 公证书

Sample application for documents (your province or hukou may vary): - these links don't seem to work

http://www.bnpo.gov....72115331419.doc

http://www.bnpo.gov....ide/detail1.asp

A discussion of the huji (or hukou 户口) system can be found at Hukou System. Chinese residents should go to their hukou for all notarial documents (birth, divorce, and/or single certificate, and police records). For the police record, one obtained at the hukou will cover all of China.

A notarial document will be in the standard white notarial booklet, have an official red seal, an English translation, and an attestation to the true translation.

Edited August 19, 2014 by RandyW

[CowBoE 429]

Thanks for the reply. I think the birth certificate from a city-level “Gong Zheng Chu” is a part of the "white book". Birth Certificate, Marriage Certificate, Police Records and their English versions obtained from a city-level “Gong Zheng Chu” are put together and called "white book". Please correct me if I am wrong. Is there a terminology for "white book" in Chinese? I know Chinese, but the direct translation of “white book” to Chinese doesn’t sound like an official term.

I have read the pinned thread, but the staff from “Guangzhou(city-level) Gong Zheng Chu” told my fiancee that if he were to follow word by word of this sentence “The certificate must also indicate that the public office extracted the information from official records.” in Packet 3, "a certificate proves that the birth certificate from the hospital where my fiancée was born is legit" is more proper. Although the staff from the Gong Zheng Chu said the decision of which type of birth certificate to make is up to my fiancee.

So, my fiancée initially got all 3 certificates from a local police station,

and she had them translated to English and Notarized.

I am not 100% sure if above certificates are not accepted by the Guangzhou consulate,

but some have mentioned getting the "white book" from GongZhengChu,

so at the last minute we rushed to get these 3 certificates from GongZhengChu

(it took them 5 working days).

She passed the interview with certificates from GongZhengChu,

so we know these certificates are good.

Here are some pictures of this "white book"...

http://www.visajourney.com/gallery/albums/userpics/184779/Aug19_044.JPG

http://www.visajourney.com/gallery/albums/userpics/184779/Aug19_047.JPG

Now, some folks referred to them as "yellow book" for medical exam and shot records,

and "white book" for 3 (birth, no marriage, and police) certificates,

but my fiancee has never heard of those terms, and she has also found that

most Chinese in China, including the workers at the hospital and at GongZhengChu

are not very familiar with those terminology.

Closest it got was, at the hospital someone mentioned it as "...that yellow color cover booklet...".

And at GongZhengChu, when she inquired about the "white book", they were also baffled,

and they said "...the 3 certificates will be issued in white cover book, if that is what you are referring to...".

In any case, when you get the certificates, be sure to request English translation (which comes as

Chinese and English), and about 3 copies since its so much hassle to get them.

1 copy you will turn in during the interview. And 2 copies can be kept for record and possible use in the future.

I'm bit surprised that they asked her which type of birth certificate she is requesting.

I don't think my fiancee was asked that.

But one problem she had was, they wanted her parent's marriage certificate,

but after her father died, they threw it away so they didn't have it.

So they reluctantly accepted hokou as the only evidence and said that it may take longer time to

validate her parent's marriage.

I can't say with 100% certainty, but I have a hunch either type of 2 birth certificate

will be accepted by the consulate as long as its issued by GongZhengChu.

But if you aren't sure, just get both.

Edited August 19, 2014 by DualityOneness

[googolplex 7]

So, my fiancée initially got all 3 certificates from a local police station,

and she had them translated to English and Notarized.

I am not 100% sure if above certificates are not accepted by the Guangzhou consulate,

but some have mentioned getting the "white book" from GongZhengChu,

so at the last minute we rushed to get these 3 certificates from GongZhengChu

(it took them 5 working days).

She passed the interview with certificates from GongZhengChu,

so we know these certificates are good.

Here are some pictures of this "white book"...

http://www.visajourney.com/gallery/albums/userpics/184779/Aug19_044.JPG

http://www.visajourney.com/gallery/albums/userpics/184779/Aug19_047.JPG

Now, some folks referred to them as "yellow book" for medical exam and shot records,

and "white book" for 3 (birth, no marriage, and police) certificates,

but my fiancee has never heard of those terms, and she has also found that

most Chinese in China, including the workers at the hospital and at GongZhengChu

are not very familiar with those terminology.

Closest it got was, at the hospital someone mentioned it as "...that yellow color cover booklet...".

And at GongZhengChu, when she inquired about the "white book", they were also baffled,

and they said "...the 3 certificates will be issued in white cover book, if that is what you are referring to...".

In any case, when you get the certificates, be sure to request English translation (which comes as

Chinese and English), and about 3 copies since its so much hassle to get them.

1 copy you will turn in during the interview. And 2 copies can be kept for record and possible use in the future.

I'm bit surprised that they asked her which type of birth certificate she is requesting.

I don't think my fiancee was asked that.

But one problem she had was, they wanted her parent's marriage certificate,

but after her father died, they threw it away so they didn't have it.

So they reluctantly accepted hokou as the only evidence and said that it may take longer time to

validate her parent's marriage.

I can't say with 100% certainty, but I have a hunch either type of 2 birth certificate

will be accepted by the consulate as long as its issued by GongZhengChu.

But if you aren't sure, just get both.

Thanks a lot for your input. Perhaps the descriptions in Packet 3 are too ambiguous. The staff from Gong Zheng Chu doesn’t want to take any responsibility if the issued GongZhengShu is not what the consulate is looking for. I guess I have to take a risk or get both types of birth certificates.

[CowBoE 429]

Thanks a lot for your input. Perhaps the descriptions in Packet 3 are too ambiguous. The staff from Gong Zheng Chu doesn’t want to take any responsibility if the issued GongZhengShu is not what the consulate is looking for. I guess I have to take a risk or get both types of birth certificates.

More update on this...now I remember the conversation I had with my fiancee.

She had trouble finding any records like (shot records, birth records, etc.) from the hospital,

so she only had hokou to go by. I remember her telling me this.

Therefore, I am very positive now that she got the birth certificate based on the hokou.

Also, this is what packet3/4 instruction says for GuangZhou consulate...

http://photos.state.gov/libraries/guangzhou/47024/IV/K1%20Instruction%20GSS%202013.pdf

□ BIRTH CERTIFICATES:

Each applicant must have one certified copy of his/her birth certificate. Applicants born in the People’s Republic of China must have a birth certificate issued by a local notary public office. The certificate must state the date, place of birth and names of both parents (if deceased, so state). The certificate must also indicate that the public office extracted the information from official records. If someone adopted any of the applicants, that applicant must submit a certified copy of the final adoption decree. Photocopies are acceptable provided the applicant provides the original for inspection by the consular officer.

I think hokou is more official then some hospital record.

[googolplex 7]

More update on this...now I remember the conversation I had with my fiancee.

She had trouble finding any records like (shot records, birth records, etc.) from the hospital,

so she only had hokou to go by. I remember her telling me this.

Therefore, I am very positive now that she got the birth certificate based on the hokou.

Also, this is what packet3/4 instruction says for GuangZhou consulate...

http://photos.state.gov/libraries/guangzhou/47024/IV/K1%20Instruction%20GSS%202013.pdf

□ BIRTH CERTIFICATES:

Each applicant must have one certified copy of his/her birth certificate. Applicants born in the People’s Republic of China must have a birth certificate issued by a local notary public office. The certificate must state the date, place of birth and names of both parents (if deceased, so state). The certificate must also indicate that the public office extracted the information from official records. If someone adopted any of the applicants, that applicant must submit a certified copy of the final adoption decree. Photocopies are acceptable provided the applicant provides the original for inspection by the consular officer.

I think hokou is more official then some hospital record.

It makes sense, because I heard the hospital record was not common at all until recently in China. My fiancée was born in 1990 and has a hospital record. Perhaps this is why the staff from Gong Zheng Chu offers her 2 options. By the way, the Packet 3/4 you posted here is not the latest version. It contains too much old information, such as filling out DS 156, DS 156K, DS 230, etc. Currently, only filling out DS 160 is required. I found a more recent Packet 3/4, but I forgot where I found it:

K_Visa_Instructions after 10-2013.pdf

[CowBoE 429]

It makes sense, because I heard the hospital record was not common at all until recently in China. My fiancée was born in 1990 and has a hospital record. Perhaps this is why the staff from Gong Zheng Chu offers her 2 options. By the way, the Packet 3/4 you posted here is not the latest version. It contains too much old information, such as filling out DS 156, DS 156K, DS 230, etc. Currently, only filling out DS 160 is required. I found a more recent Packet 3/4, but I forgot where I found it:

Yes, Guangzhou consulate still has the old information, and I forgot to point it out.

Now everything makes sense. My wife was born in the days they had no good

hospital record keeping...so hokou was the only information they had to go by.

So if you get hokou based birth certificate, likely it should work,

since it worked for my fiancee.

Man...through some detective work...we got this figured out.

Give pat on our back!!!

[Darnell 8,478]

birth certificates brain dump (mine)

1. no one really issued a birth certificate from hospital. got one? must be younger person.

2. have hukuo book? go get a birth certificate, Chinese version.

3. have birth certificate, Chinese version? go get a white book, notarial translation of the birth certificate.

4. must get this paperwork done/handled, in hukuo city or hukuo district, sometimes hukuo province is ok also.

the pinned topic in this forum has some interaction with the poster and myself, over a 3 month period of him gathering info.

RandyW's post is also inclusive of the info needed.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Darnell

[teedubbz 0]

My fiancee just noticed this language in the requirements - The certificate must also indicate that the public office extracted the information from official records.

Should the Gong Zheng Shu include a specific statement to that effect? Has anyone had any issue with this specifically, or is there only one kind of Gong Zheng Shu.