Can We Have a Respectful Discussion on Religion?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Ah, ok. Thank you. Why are there no other prophets after Mohammad and what events or circumstances made his prophecy the final word?

It appears Mohammad didn't have the final word, or at least, his followers over the last 14 centuries or so, can't seem to agree what those words are, and so, Islam is plagued with the same human frailties all major religions seem to be inflicted with.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

[spookyturtle 9,465]

How do we know Mohammad was a prophet? What are the criteria that are used to determine whether one was a prophet or not?

[himher 634]

I thought you were a Muslim. Those are Bible Prophet names.

Most of the Prophets of Islam are referenced in the bible. Most of the stories of the prophets in the bible are referenced in the Quran.

Adam

Idris (Enoch)

Nuh (Noah)

Hud (Heber)

Salih (Methusaleh)

Lut (Lot)

Ibrahim (Abraham)

Ismail (Ishmael)

Ishaq (Isaac)

Yaqub (Jacob)

Yusuf (Joseph)

Shu’aib (Jethro)

Ayyub (Job)

Dhulkifl (Ezekiel)

Musa (Moses)

Harun (Aaron)

Dawud (David)

Sulayman (Solomon)

Ilias (Elias)

Alyasa (Elisha)

Yunus (Jonah)

Zakariya (Zachariah)

Yahya (John the Baptist)

Isa (Jesus)

Muhammad

[Karee 4,189]

Most of the Prophets of Islam are referenced in the bible. Most of the stories of the prophets in the bible are referenced in the Quran.

Adam

Idris (Enoch)

Nuh (Noah)

Hud (Heber)

Salih (Methusaleh)

Lut (Lot)

Ibrahim (Abraham)

Ismail (Ishmael)

Ishaq (Isaac)

Yaqub (Jacob)

Yusuf (Joseph)

Shu’aib (Jethro)

Ayyub (Job)

Dhulkifl (Ezekiel)

Musa (Moses)

Harun (Aaron)

Dawud (David)

Sulayman (Solomon)

Ilias (Elias)

Alyasa (Elisha)

Yunus (Jonah)

Zakariya (Zachariah)

Yahya (John the Baptist)

Isa (Jesus)

Muhammad

Kind of odd that evangelicals seem to support Israel as much as they do, when it seems like they have more in common with Islam than Judaism. Similarities as far as their respective religious fairy tales anyway.

[himher 634]

The evangelicals HAVE to prop israel up as a nation and get them to trigger a big war in order to fulfil their own ideas of "end of times" prophecies, taken here and there from biblical texts and woven into a story. Offered below:

1. The Jewish people will be regathered in unbelief from the four corners of the earth (Isaiah 11:11-12). Fulfillment: 20th Century and continuing.
   
2. The state of Israel will be re-established (Isaiah 66:7-8 & Ezekiel 37:21-22). Fulfillment: May 14, 1948.
   
3. The Jews will once again re-occupy the city of Jerusalem (Zechariah 8:4-8), Fulfillment: June 7, 1967.
   
4. The land of Israel will be reclaimed from its desolation, becoming once again a land of agricultural abundance (Ezekiel 36:34-35). Fulfillment: 20th Century and continuing.
   
5. The Hebrew language will be revived from the dead (Zephaniah 3:9). Fulfillment: 19th & 20th Centuries.
   
6. All the nations of the world will come together against Israel over the issue of the control of Jerusalem (Zechariah 12:1-3). Fulfillment: Currently occurring.

Prophecies Yet To Be Fulfilled

1. The Arab nations of the world will attack Israel in a coordinated effort to annihilate the state (Psalm 83).
   
2. Israel will soundly defeat the Arab alliance (Zechariah 12:6).
   
3. Israel will dwell in security and prosperity (Ezekiel 38:11).
   
4. A Russian coalition consisting mainly of Muslim nations will invade Israel (Ezekiel 38:1-17).
   
5. The Russian coalition will be destroyed supernaturally by God (Ezekiel 38:18-23 & 39:1-8).
   
6. The Antichrist will intervene and guarantee the security of Israel, enabling the Jews to rebuild their Temple (Daniel 9:27).
   
7. At the end of three and a half years, the Antichrist will enter the rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem and declare himself to be God (Daniel 9:27, Matthew 24:15-18, & 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).
   
8. The Jews will reject the Antichrist, and he will respond with an attempt to annihilate them, killing two-thirds of them in the process (Revelation 12:13-17 & Zechariah 13:8-9).
   
9. At the end of the Tribulation, when the Jews have come to the end of themselves, they will turn to God and receive Yeshua as their Messiah (Zechariah 12:10, Romans 9:27-28, & Romans 11:25-27).
   
10. Jesus will return and regather all believing Jews to Israel (Deuteronomy 30:1-9).
    
11. Israel will be established as the prime nation in the world (Isaiah 2:1-4 & Micah 4:1-7).
    
12. The Lord will bless the Jewish remnant by fulfilling all the promises He has made to Israel (Isaiah 60:1-62:7).
    
13. The blessings of God will flow out to all the nations through the Jewish people during the Millennial rule of Jesus (Zechariah 8:22-23).

Evangelicals don't give a rat's a$$ how cruel the jews are or what it takes to get the war kicked off they just want to make it happen so they can all "be saved" and "taken to heaven" at the expense of the blood of jews and arabs.

They also believe the little remnant that is left (they teach 2/3 of the jews will have to be killed) will turn to christianity at the last minute. OH - all by armies on horses. From russia. And OH YEAH - it HAS to be within (1) generation of 1948. So the evangelical christians don't necessarily support isreal, they support bringing these things they believe have to happen to make them happen.

Their "Prince of Peace" has to come drenched in blood. Of other people of course.

[james&olya 1,121]

Good question. I don't think any of the major religions endorse it. Some fundamentalists might misconstrue scripture to suggest that God would want them to go out and kill in His name, but that is a stretch.

A question to Muslims: Why is Mohammad the only prophet?

You think the old testament is lying in the places where it reports that God commanded the Israelites to kill their enemies, including the women and children?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

You think the old testament is lying in the places where it reports that God commanded the Israelites to kill their enemies, including the women and children?

Yep. Both the ruthlessness and brutality of the Hebrews in the Bible is supported by contemporary historical accounts. The Egyptian account has them as mercenaries used to defend one of the Egyptian frontiers, and when they decided to leave Egypt when their services were no longer needed, they laid waste to whole regions, taking what they needed for their exodus, and destroying the rest. No wonder Pharaoh was pissed!

[himher 634]

You think the old testament is lying in the places where it reports that God commanded the Israelites to kill their enemies, including the women and children?

Several times as I recall. Mostly it commands them to kill every single one except for the virgins then take them home and enjoy them. A typical example (but there are so, so many LOL)

Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

[james&olya 1,121]

Several times as I recall. Mostly it commands them to kill every single one except for the virgins then take them home and enjoy them. A typical example (but there are so, so many LOL)

Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

So are modern Christians wrong in their progressive ideas about women's rights or has God also just had a maturation in his sense of the rights and liberties women should enjoy? And how was it that God could allow such ruthless, genocidal acts against the descendants of the humans he created? Could all of them really have been so evil that they all deserved death? Or has God changed in this regard as well? These questions are meant in the most respectful manner possible. As yet I have never heard an answer that satisfied me. Maybe somebody has an explanation that will surprise me and restore my 'faith'.

[himher 634]

OH you mean the bible where rape victims must marry their rapist and never divorce forever and ever and ever? If a woman is married and if her husband decides he doesn't like her and she cannot provide solid proof of virginity she gets stoned to death? Or if a woman is raped in the city, nobody hears her call out for help, and then gets stoned to death for it? That bible?

If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her ¹⁴ and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” ¹⁵ then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin. ¹⁶ Her father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. ¹⁷ Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, ¹⁸ and the elders shall take the man and punish him. ¹⁹ They shall fine him a hundred shekels^[b] of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.

²⁰ If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, ²¹ she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

²² If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

²³ If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, ²⁴ you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

²⁵ But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. ²⁶ Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, ²⁷ for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.

²⁸ If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, ²⁹ he shall pay her father fifty shekels^[c] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Edited April 29, 2013 by himher

[GandD 5,966]

OH you mean the bible where rape victims must marry their rapist and never divorce forever and ever and ever? If a woman is married and if her husband decides he doesn't like her and she cannot provide solid proof of virginity she gets stoned to death? Or if a woman is raped in the city, nobody hears her call out for help, and then gets stoned to death for it? That bible?

If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her ¹⁴ and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” ¹⁵ then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin. ¹⁶ Her father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. ¹⁷ Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, ¹⁸ and the elders shall take the man and punish him. ¹⁹ They shall fine him a hundred shekels^[b] of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.

²⁰ If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, ²¹ she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

²² If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

²³ If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, ²⁴ you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

²⁵ But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. ²⁶ Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, ²⁷ for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.

²⁸ If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, ²⁹ he shall pay her father fifty shekels^[c] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Don't worry, someone will be along shortly to say something like "Well, that's the old testament and things were different then" or "The new testament is about the new message from Christ"

That person will later use Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 as proof God hates homosexuals.

What a fun book. You can literally make it say whatever you want.

[Karee 4,189]

What a fun book. You can literally make it say whatever you want.

True.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Karee

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

So are modern Christians wrong in their progressive ideas about women's rights or has God also just had a maturation in his sense of the rights and liberties women should enjoy? And how was it that God could allow such ruthless, genocidal acts against the descendants of the humans he created? Could all of them really have been so evil that they all deserved death? Or has God changed in this regard as well? These questions are meant in the most respectful manner possible. As yet I have never heard an answer that satisfied me. Maybe somebody has an explanation that will surprise me and restore my 'faith'.

God can be such a tool at times.

[sandinista! 1,816]

To my knowledge, the prevailing line of thinking is that the accounts in the Torah were widely exaggerated, and fictional. There is no justification for genocide whatsoever in Judaism. It is not and was never meant to be literal.

The punishments described were never meant to be carried out either. The rules established to convict and sentence someone to the fate prescribed are virtually impossible. It's a warning, nothing more.