How to appeal and success rate

[Boiler 43,363]

Good luck, girl! It's a bummer how hard it is to go spend your money abroad. Let us know if it works!

She is 24years old, not married (living with my parents and her boyfriend of 7years), doesn't own anything and hasn't had a job for 2 years now.

I am going to guess the US Economy will survive.

[Noah Lot 387]

No one seems to comprehend the simple fact that it does not matter why somebody wants to go to the US, nor does it matter if their relatives or friends want them to visit the US...none of that is part of the adjudication equation. It matters not how important some relative or friend thinks they are, it matters not what college they attended, what sort of house they live in or much money they have in the bank...because NONE of the above have any relevance to a visa applicant, who by law, is required to convince the VO that they will abide by the terms of the visa....now I have asked, almost begged, anyone to, in essence, disprove what I said...find the exception in the laws...(hint: they are not in the laws)...

The OP is considering what I affectionately refer to as the 'resume review request'; asking the Cg to reconsider a decision based solely on the resume of the relative or friend....but...who is (was) the applicant? Not the person with the resume.

As I also wrote, there is no 'magic' answer, and sympathy never enters into the equation, however cold and cruel that may sound. Empathy perhaps, sympathy, never. It is far too risky to allow those types of emotions into the interview. Judge the case on its merits, not on some sad tale of woe.

And once again, the real people to blame are not the VOs, but all those from a particular country who have abused and violated the object of trust once given to them....

Edited June 6, 2012 by Noah Lot

[Noah Lot 387]

However knowledgeable Noah might be, I think he's simply rude. And all of us come to this forum in the hope of exchanging advice in a civilized manner, not judging and insulting each other. Honestly, I have seen much tougher situations on here - people whose USC husbands went to prison during AOS, people with criminal history and what not, and there are still people who reply their queries calmly. If you have a constructive idea, it's wonderful that you are willing to share it. But if all you're gonna do is write 30 lines justifying discrimination and making people feel bad about things they can't do anything about - like their birth place, I don't know who exactly you think you're benefitting. You're wasting your time and everybody else's. These girls are trying to get a legal permission to spend their money in the US, after all.

Unfortunately, I don't know a way to remedy the situation, other than trying again. I have heard of situations where the USC contacts the embassy with a complaint that the case has been rejected and stating that there is no fraud and that the rejection causes hardship on him and his family and things have worked out. But I don't remember details, you should search around and see if you can find this case in a forum. I'm sorry I can't help more, I just wanted to make you feel better, in case you were starting to think that everyone thinks like Noah.

I for my part, was also a young girl without any ties to my country when I got my tourist visa. Only, the country was in western Europe. It was a 5 minute interview and I got a 10 year visa right away. There is an element of discrimination, which cannot be denied.

Maybe she should save up her money for her wedding and come next summer or whenever she's married. I'm sorry you have to go through this.

Why rude? What statements have I made that are innaccurate AND insulting?

Contacting the embassy to ask for a review or reconsideration is technically not allowed.

[Noah Lot 387]

OK...quiz time, for those who think they are 'special', for those who think the laws don't apply to them....ready????

So, your (circle one) sister/brother/mother/father/girlfriend/boyfriend/nephew/niece is refused a tourist visa...please answer the following questions:

1- why should YOUR pedigree be a relevant part of the decision making process?

2- If you believe it should, please explain where in our current laws such an exception is made for those 'special' people.

3- If your (circle one above) fails to return home, please explain how your 'promise' to send them home will be legally enforced.

4- If you were to contact a CG at the embassy in which your (circled one above) was denied a visa, why should that decision be either reconsidered or overturned just because you say so?

5- If all of the above were in place, how much time per day do you think said CG would spend on the phone or answering emails addressing the concerns of all those other 'special' people?

6- what conditions would you want in place to make the determination of being classified as a 'special' person?

7- If said conditions were enforced, how would you explain the discriminatory aspect of that enforcement?

If you cannot rationally or logically answer any of these questions, I rest my case.

[belinda63 2,981]

Every person who applies for a non-immigrant visa is considered to be an intending immigrant and it is up to the person applying to prove they will leave the US when they are supposed to. No one has a "right" to visit the US, no one has a "right" to visit a family member or friend inside the US, etc. A visa to the US is a privilege which can be denied or revoked at any time by any authorized person whether it is the consulate officer, the officer at the Point of entry, an immigration judge, etc.

A person applying for a tourist visa must qualify on their own merits which are determined by a number of factors and also by the experience of the reviewing officer. NO ONE can guarantee a person will leave the US when they are supposed.

I suggest she build stronger ties to her home country and try applying again in the future.

[Noah Lot 387]

Every person who applies for a non-immigrant visa is considered to be an intending immigrant and it is up to the person applying to prove they will leave the US when they are supposed to. No one has a "right" to visit the US, no one has a "right" to visit a family member or friend inside the US, etc. A visa to the US is a privilege which can be denied or revoked at any time by any authorized person whether it is the consulate officer, the officer at the Point of entry, an immigration judge, etc.

A person applying for a tourist visa must qualify on their own merits which are determined by a number of factors and also by the experience of the reviewing officer. NO ONE can guarantee a person will leave the US when they are supposed.

I suggest she build stronger ties to her home country and try applying again in the future.

Those simple facts (above) are the key...note that there are NO exceptions made for those who believe that they are 'special'....only consular officers are empowered to adjudicate visas....not 'special' people, not congress. That's the way it is, like it or not. If meddling or (more politely) 'intervention' were allowed, the process would quickly breakdown, transparency would be lost, considerable time wasted reviewing previous decisions, which would generate more complaints that more people were not being interviewed, etc,etc.

Bottom line: there are no 'special' people.....the pedigree of the relative or friend plays NO ROLE WHATSOVER in the ajudication process....none, zero, zilch....and I have yet to hear from anyone who can point to themselves being the exception, based on current law.

[Noah Lot 387]

She is 24years old, not married (living with my parents and her boyfriend of 7years), doesn't own anything and hasn't had a job for 2 years now.

I am going to guess the US Economy will survive.

I don't know....gosh...missing out on $2.79 might cause a stock market crash.....

[Derry Lea 2]

I don't know....gosh...missing out on $2.79 might cause a stock market crash.....

Like I said try out being a comedian

[Noah Lot 387]

Like I said try out being a comedian

not willing to take the quiz?

[JohnR! 5,495]

1339004670[/url]' post='5424543']

Thank you for this. I could not have said it any better. When I posted the topic I was expecting a helpful advice, someone to share a story or give an idea. Instead what I got as true as they were were 10 replies from Noah stating my case means nothing and I should accept that. I got to the point when I didn't even care because I tried to explain so many times MY situation and my point of view and got shut down. In one of the replies I said now more than anything I just want to prove him wrong and even if nothing happened..oh well,you were right all along, stop shoving it in people's faces. And yes this is a forum for people to try and help other people and show support. I don't want somebody to tell me "Oh, it's gonna be fine, she's gonna get the visa" but I was not expecting to be told 100 times "You're a nobody and that's the way it should be."

And to Noah - Thank you for all the replies. Now I don't know if you're someone who actually cares about the cases and the people on this site and takes time to sit down and write down his opinion and advice...or you just find it amusing to read sad stories about relatives unable to visit each other. As unhelpful as they were from the beginning, I thank you. You sound like someone intelligent enough who knows what he's talking about. But in order to be heard and appreciated find a way to show you also have manners and compassion. Just an advice from me, that's all.

Consider that it is easier to disseminate fear than to spread hope. For some it may be a manner by which they feel empowered in some obscure way. Their choice, their opinion and they are entitled to it.

The facts are that not all appeals will result in a different decision but I know for a fact that the rate of failure is 100% for all those who don't try it.

I think that some misunderstand the suggesitions posted here and take them to be infallible when in fact these suggestions are meant to call the attention of the OP to details that may have been missed or information that could have been disclosed or even situation that might mitigate of play a part in an appeal process. There is no infallible formula but if you believe you can present your case under a new light at the interview, you will never know the outcome unless you try it. If there were no recourse there would be no appeals. If your situation were utterly helpless there would be no single young females entering the US on tourist visas everyday.

in all honesty we can only hope there is a way for your sister to appeal the decision with a favorable outcome, no matter how hard it may seem. I hope she finds a way to come visit you and that is all we can actually and effectively do here. We can only hope there was something that was left unsaid or undone that might reverse the decision.

In another time, these naysayers would be gathered around Isabella trying to convince her against funding Columbus' expedition on the grounds that nobody had succeeded in crossing the Atlantic before.

The only guarantee you have is that of failure for all endeavors you do not undertake.

[Boiler 43,363]

The application has nothing to do with the OP.

[Noah Lot 387]

Consider that it is easier to disseminate fear than to spread hope. For some it may be a manner by which they feel empowered in some obscure way. Their choice, their opinion and they are entitled to it.

The facts are that not all appeals will result in a different decision but I know for a fact that the rate of failure is 100% for all those who don't try it.

I think that some misunderstand the suggesitions posted here and take them to be infallible when in fact these suggestions are meant to call the attention of the OP to details that may have been missed or information that could have been disclosed or even situation that might mitigate of play a part in an appeal process. There is no infallible formula but if you believe you can present your case under a new light at the interview, you will never know the outcome unless you try it. If there were no recourse there would be no appeals. If your situation were utterly helpless there would be no single young females entering the US on tourist visas everyday.

in all honesty we can only hope there is a way for your sister to appeal the decision with a favorable outcome, no matter how hard it may seem. I hope she finds a way to come visit you and that is all we can actually and effectively do here. We can only hope there was something that was left unsaid or undone that might reverse the decision.

In another time, these naysayers would be gathered around Isabella trying to convince her against funding Columbus' expedition on the grounds that nobody had succeeded in crossing the Atlantic before.

The only guarantee you have is that of failure for all endeavors you do not undertake.

The only LEGAL form of appeal of a denied tourist visa is for the applicant to apply again....there is NO appeal process, and a letter writing campaign is futile...because.....the applicant must prove their bona fides, not their relative or friend. The OP, like many others, fails to understand the simple mechanisms involved...for example, the DS 160 (the visa application) does not ask single question of the applicant about the 'pedigree' of their relative or friends in the US...there are no questions that ask:

1- Is your relative a big shot?

2- Did your relative graduate from an Ivy league college?

3- Does your relative have a bunch of money?

4- Does your relative live in a really big house and drive a fancy car?

5- Does your relative schmooze with some 'well connected' folks?

6- Is your relative an honest, taxpaying American who voted (a) Democratic or (b) Republican and would never ever, cross his heart and hope to die promise never to condone any immigration law violation by his relative/friend (visa applicant) because he/she is 100% patriotic?

etc.etc..since these questions were never asked, providing this information later in a letter to the CG as a rationale for overturning their denial is just plain silly.

Yet so many people believe that if they can just impress the VO or CG, all be well. It won't, because you can't.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Noah Lot

[JohnR! 5,495]

1339080520[/url]' post='5427627']

The only LEGAL form of appeal of a denied tourist visa is for the applicant to apply again....

Ah! A rose by any other name...

[Noah Lot 387]

Consider that it is easier to disseminate fear than to spread hope. For some it may be a manner by which they feel empowered in some obscure way. Their choice, their opinion and they are entitled to it.

The facts are that not all appeals will result in a different decision but I know for a fact that the rate of failure is 100% for all those who don't try it.

I think that some misunderstand the suggesitions posted here and take them to be infallible when in fact these suggestions are meant to call the attention of the OP to details that may have been missed or information that could have been disclosed or even situation that might mitigate of play a part in an appeal process. There is no infallible formula but if you believe you can present your case under a new light at the interview, you will never know the outcome unless you try it. If there were no recourse there would be no appeals. If your situation were utterly helpless there would be no single young females entering the US on tourist visas everyday.

in all honesty we can only hope there is a way for your sister to appeal the decision with a favorable outcome, no matter how hard it may seem. I hope she finds a way to come visit you and that is all we can actually and effectively do here. We can only hope there was something that was left unsaid or undone that might reverse the decision.

In another time, these naysayers would be gathered around Isabella trying to convince her against funding Columbus' expedition on the grounds that nobody had succeeded in crossing the Atlantic before.

The only guarantee you have is that of failure for all endeavors you do not undertake.

And only the applicant can attempt to do this ...during a subsequent interview, not by a relative or friend putting this information on a sheet of paper for the applicant to memorize.

[JohnR! 5,495]

And only the applicant can attempt to do this

Yes. Who else did you have in mind?