Petitioner/Sponsor (USC) has adequate income still CO wants Joint Sponsor

[MrsNotBonJovi 18]

I am sorry for having to tell you this, but I find a lot in this version of events that I have difficulty taking at face value. No offence meant to you, but 'targeted malice' and 'abuse', this certainly does not seem to be. If you were not present during the interview, you may have to ask your wife to recount the sequence of events once again. There is definitely another side to this story, me thinks.

Edited May 20, 2012 by MrsNotBonJovi

[Darnell 8,478]

They do not allow husbands or wives inside. I waited outside.

So you are still 'in country' now.

Whilst USCitizens are not allowed into IV interviews, they ARE allowed into the building.

You have seen appointments for American Citizen Services there, yes?

Suggest you get one, talk to a Vice Consul.

Good Luck !

[maiortum 6]

So you are still 'in country' now.

Whilst USCitizens are not allowed into IV interviews, they ARE allowed into the building.

You have seen appointments for American Citizen Services there, yes?

Suggest you get one, talk to a Vice Consul.

Good Luck !

Darnell - Thanks. Appreciate your positive input. Will follow thru. Thanks Again. Many blessings.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Fascinating.

maiortum, I'm sure you've heard the consulates in India can be difficult. So let's start there. They ask for things other consulates don't, like extra years of the USC's tax returns. They are vigilant about trying to weed out individuals who are using a US citizen's affections to get out of country.

Without any offense intended, I feel you should know some consulates are aware of a practice of USC's looking for someone to assist them as a carer. In other words a true spousal relationship would not exist between the parties. This would be deemed fraud as a sham marriage would exist with mutual benefits for the parties - life in the US for the citizen of that country; a caretaker for the US citizen. Sometimes abuse of the foreign spouse occurs in these scenarios; consulates try to protect the citizens of the native country too. I hope you understand I accuse you of nothing when writing to you here; my writing is for your illumination only.

All that being said, I disagree violently with the information you have thus far been given regarding sufficiency of your I864. "Having enough" is indeed enough as consular officers well know. And as you have previously stated, you've got about $6K income above the minimum. For your reference I attach a link to a USCIS interoffice memorandum dated June 2007 wherein the (at that time) new affidavit was clarified for adjudicating officers.

http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/Static_Files_Memoranda/Archives%201998-2008/2006/affsuppafm062706.pdf

I would be remiss if I did not note that the problem you are having is with the State Department, and not USCIS. But as you say, your I864 was already vetted by the Service. Consular advisories and notes that we are not always privy to are at work here, yet still the underlying fact remains that the affidavit is sufficient for the Service. I suspect the CO's in Mumbai are aware of this and are aware that a return of the case to the Service for insufficiency of income could be disputed.

So, in short, while I don't suspect any discrimination on Mumbai's part due to your Veteran status, I do suspect they have some doubts about the bonafides of your case. They are waving the I864 about as a way of seeing if you are willing to produce another; not because the first doesn't pass muster. You say you are doing such and including new information which strengthens the affidavit. You say you are seeking a joint sponsor; I unfortunately think you must do that because they insist. I do also suspect they will return the joint sponsor affidavit to your wife as it is not the real issue.

I'll be interested to see if you learn anything from your advocates inquiries to enlighten us. I suspect you won't because the end game is to unite you and your wife. But if you do I hope you'll share them with us.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Rebecca Jo

[maiortum 6]

Fascinating.

maiortum, I'm sure you've heard the consulates in India can be difficult. So let's start there. They ask for things other consulates don't, like extra years of the USC's tax returns. They are vigilant about trying to weed out individuals who are using a US citizen's affections to get out of country.

Without any offense intended, I feel you should know some consulates are aware of a practice of USC's looking for someone to assist them as a carer. In other words a true spousal relationship would not exist between the parties. This would be deemed fraud as a sham marriage would exist with mutual benefits for the parties - life in the US for the citizen of that country; a caretaker for the US citizen. Sometimes abuse of the foreign spouse occurs in these scenarios; consulates try to protect the citizens of the native country too. I hope you understand I accuse you of nothing when writing to you here; my writing is for your illumination only.

All that being said, I disagree violently with the information you have thus far been given regarding sufficiency of your I864. "Having enough" is indeed enough as consular officers well know. And as you have previously stated, you've got about $6K income above the minimum. For your reference I attach a link to a USCIS interoffice memorandum dated June 2007 wherein the (at that time) new affidavit was clarified for adjudicating officers.

http://www.uscis.gov...ppafm062706.pdf

I would be remiss if I did not note that the problem you are having is with the State Department, and not USCIS. But as you say, your I864 was already vetted by the Service. Consular advisories and notes that we are not always privy to are at work here, yet still the underlying fact remains that the affidavit is sufficient for the Service. I suspect the CO's in Mumbai are aware of this and are aware that a return of the case to the Service for insufficiency of income could be disputed.

So, in short, while I don't suspect any discrimination on Mumbai's part due to your Veteran status, I do suspect they have some doubts about the bonafides of your case. They are waving the I864 about as a way of seeing if you are willing to produce another; not because the first doesn't pass muster. You say you are doing such and including new information which strengthens the affidavit. You say you are seeking a joint sponsor; I unfortunately think you must do that because they insist. I do also suspect they will return the joint sponsor affidavit to your wife as it is not the real issue.

I'll be interested to see if you learn anything from your advocates inquiries to enlighten us. I suspect you won't because the end game is to unite you and your wife. But if you do I hope you'll share them with us.

Rebecca Jo

Thank you for your candid assessment. In the nation of India, there are currently approximately ONE BILLION 200 MILLION persons living. Christians are a very very small minority about 2 percent. The group becomes smaller if you allow for denomination differences such as Catholics, Protestants, Syrian Orthodox and so on. Protestants are admittedly a very tiny tiny minority. Break it down further by age groups and now you can almost get them in a small town. Now eliminate those females who are not 43 to 55 and single. Further shrink the group to those who have no interest in migrating to the USA. If you are a careful person and not inclined to just plunge headlong in to matrimony with just anybody then you must know the family of the girl for a decent time period so you can verify that representations are truthful. Basically it gets down to slim pickings.

Now introduce that elusive elixir of life called true love and we are down to my wife and I. My father knew her father for 25 plus years. My dad never mentioned that there is a girl I should consider marrying because she and I have a 14 year age gap. Eventually, when I returned on the injured list and potential brides of the Indian variety viewed me as a langra (disabled) - I told my ma this is not for me and I will not be humiliated.

My dad passed away suddenly and I was left caring for my ma for 20 years or so. She died in 1998. I then thought about settling down but wondered who would even throw me a second glance given my health issues. Then in 2003, I had a chance to meet my wife in Mumbai. She was a school teacher and I was teaching insurance law. We hit it off but as soon as I got back to USA, I chatted with her and told her that the likelihood we could be a couple in the future is not good. I had fully disclosed to her my injuries and health challenges. She too shared some health issues of her own. We are both devout Christians and we agreed to sit on the topic and pray about it earnestly. Over the next 3.5 years we grew fond of each other not to mention we were aging also. Finally one day we said if it is God's will we will get married and I proposed to her. She accepted but there no sirens blaring - it was a nice loving moment. It felt good. I was not seeking a "caregiver" and she had no interest in leaving her aging mother and father. They live a simple but good life and their lives centers around church and family activities. We decided to get married in Dec 2007. I am an only child so I was going to be the solo attendee at my own wedding. She luckily had her sister and husband and two kids visiting from Germany where he is employed as an engineer. It was a modest church wedding in her church with a few friends and relatives. I was still teaching and I had to go back to states. In January 2008, literally days after our marriage her 75 year old dad slipped in the bathroom and first week in February 2008 he was laid to rest. Her only brother works in Oman and has a good job. Her other sister had to return to Germany. Now her aged ma is left bereaved. I told her to stay put and take care of ma. In this world you only get one ma. That's another commonality we share. I took care of my ma for 20 years so I know what it is like to sacrifice for your ma. In the period Dec 2007 thru June 2011. I visited my lovely wife 5 times and spent half my time with her in Mumbai at her mother's house. Her ma is a wonderful lady. When we married in Dec 2007. I did not need a caregiver or attendant.

No the bonafides are uncontroverted and I will gladly take it to a jury of our peers any time any place and I will prevail. TRUTH IS GOOD AND TRUTH IS UNASSAILABLE. In Sept 2008, I had a serious health set back and was declared disabled by the VA doctors and my VA doctors said I should have my wife with me as I now need to be monitored - must take my meds and eat properly. My Veteran community has stood by me and I have survived. In Sept 2011, I started her paperwork as her sister had returned from Germany and her ma would have someone to take care of. She lives within walking distance. The visa process finally culminated in May 17, 2012 interview at the Mumbai Consulate. Without any notice seeking whatever bonafides they are looking for they started dancing all over her head accusing her mercilessly and in vehement abusive terms. Hey you want to accuse her or me of something then lets meet in a Federal Court in front of a Federal Judge. I will win. (They have been furnished 3 affidavits, all travel details, and VA paperwork. So this attempt to harass us is just abuse.)

There is no fraud here. Just two people who journeyed in two time capsules due to circumstances but the love is enduring and has stood the test of time and will so in the future. We are both of solid character. Our needs are few and God watches over us every hour.

I have no ill will towards government functionaries but do not assail my integrity and that of my wife. That is non negotiable. Peace to all and to you Rebecca a good day. Thanks for your support. My wife joins me to wish you all that is good in this life.

[Boiler 43,430]

But there is a lot of Fraud in the Consulate you are dealing with, so you have to show you are the exception.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

You live on a very small fixed income, with no opportunity for increase. What are your wife's prospects for finding a job? Has she ever worked before?

I know you think it's unfair, but as stated, they do have discretion. I believe the VJ I-864 guide even mentions that this is a possibility, which means it has happened before enough to arrant a warning on a website.

[pushbrk 12,106]

Rebecca Jo

Thank you for your candid assessment. In the nation of India, there are currently approximately ONE BILLION 200 MILLION persons living. Christians are a very very small minority about 2 percent. The group becomes smaller if you allow for denomination differences such as Catholics, Protestants, Syrian Orthodox and so on. Protestants are admittedly a very tiny tiny minority. Break it down further by age groups and now you can almost get them in a small town. Now eliminate those females who are not 43 to 55 and single. Further shrink the group to those who have no interest in migrating to the USA. If you are a careful person and not inclined to just plunge headlong in to matrimony with just anybody then you must know the family of the girl for a decent time period so you can verify that representations are truthful. Basically it gets down to slim pickings.

Now introduce that elusive elixir of life called true love and we are down to my wife and I. My father knew her father for 25 plus years. My dad never mentioned that there is a girl I should consider marrying because she and I have a 14 year age gap. Eventually, when I returned on the injured list and potential brides of the Indian variety viewed me as a langra (disabled) - I told my ma this is not for me and I will not be humiliated.

My dad passed away suddenly and I was left caring for my ma for 20 years or so. She died in 1998. I then thought about settling down but wondered who would even throw me a second glance given my health issues. Then in 2003, I had a chance to meet my wife in Mumbai. She was a school teacher and I was teaching insurance law. We hit it off but as soon as I got back to USA, I chatted with her and told her that the likelihood we could be a couple in the future is not good. I had fully disclosed to her my injuries and health challenges. She too shared some health issues of her own. We are both devout Christians and we agreed to sit on the topic and pray about it earnestly. Over the next 3.5 years we grew fond of each other not to mention we were aging also. Finally one day we said if it is God's will we will get married and I proposed to her. She accepted but there no sirens blaring - it was a nice loving moment. It felt good. I was not seeking a "caregiver" and she had no interest in leaving her aging mother and father. They live a simple but good life and their lives centers around church and family activities. We decided to get married in Dec 2007. I am an only child so I was going to be the solo attendee at my own wedding. She luckily had her sister and husband and two kids visiting from Germany where he is employed as an engineer. It was a modest church wedding in her church with a few friends and relatives. I was still teaching and I had to go back to states. In January 2008, literally days after our marriage her 75 year old dad slipped in the bathroom and first week in February 2008 he was laid to rest. Her only brother works in Oman and has a good job. Her other sister had to return to Germany. Now her aged ma is left bereaved. I told her to stay put and take care of ma. In this world you only get one ma. That's another commonality we share. I took care of my ma for 20 years so I know what it is like to sacrifice for your ma. In the period Dec 2007 thru June 2011. I visited my lovely wife 5 times and spent half my time with her in Mumbai at her mother's house. Her ma is a wonderful lady. When we married in Dec 2007. I did not need a caregiver or attendant.

No the bonafides are uncontroverted and I will gladly take it to a jury of our peers any time any place and I will prevail. TRUTH IS GOOD AND TRUTH IS UNASSAILABLE. In Sept 2008, I had a serious health set back and was declared disabled by the VA doctors and my VA doctors said I should have my wife with me as I now need to be monitored - must take my meds and eat properly. My Veteran community has stood by me and I have survived. In Sept 2011, I started her paperwork as her sister had returned from Germany and her ma would have someone to take care of. She lives within walking distance. The visa process finally culminated in May 17, 2012 interview at the Mumbai Consulate. Without any notice seeking whatever bonafides they are looking for they started dancing all over her head accusing her mercilessly and in vehement abusive terms. Hey you want to accuse her or me of something then lets meet in a Federal Court in front of a Federal Judge. I will win. (They have been furnished 3 affidavits, all travel details, and VA paperwork. So this attempt to harass us is just abuse.)

There is no fraud here. Just two people who journeyed in two time capsules due to circumstances but the love is enduring and has stood the test of time and will so in the future. We are both of solid character. Our needs are few and God watches over us every hour.

I have no ill will towards government functionaries but do not assail my integrity and that of my wife. That is non negotiable. Peace to all and to you Rebecca a good day. Thanks for your support. My wife joins me to wish you all that is good in this life.

You don't need to convince anybody here of the bona fides of your relationship and you are never going to have the question considered by a jury of your peers. The reality is you are dealing with a Consular Immigrant Visa Unit in India. The only opinion that will ever cause a visa to be issued will come from that unit. Until you get your head around that and focus on how to change their current opinion, you will make no progress toward living together in the USA. Finances are NOT the real issue but you won't get a chance to deal with the real issue until the financial issue is put to bed.

[maiortum 6]

You don't need to convince anybody here of the bona fides of your relationship and you are never going to have the question considered by a jury of your peers. The reality is you are dealing with a Consular Immigrant Visa Unit in India. The only opinion that will ever cause a visa to be issued will come from that unit. Until you get your head around that and focus on how to change their current opinion, you will make no progress toward living together in the USA. Finances are NOT the real issue but you won't get a chance to deal with the real issue until the financial issue is put to bed.

pushbrk tell us how you would deal with the financial issue? Thanks.

You don't need to convince anybody here of the bona fides of your relationship and you are never going to have the question considered by a jury of your peers. The reality is you are dealing with a Consular Immigrant Visa Unit in India. The only opinion that will ever cause a visa to be issued will come from that unit. Until you get your head around that and focus on how to change their current opinion, you will make no progress toward living together in the USA. Finances are NOT the real issue but you won't get a chance to deal with the real issue until the financial issue is put to bed.

pushbrk Kindly tells us what is the real issue? Thanks.

[maiortum 6]

But there is a lot of Fraud in the Consulate you are dealing with, so you have to show you are the exception.

Boiler - how would you go about proving the exception? Thanks.

[pushbrk 12,106]

I already indicated you need to come through with a more qualified joint sponsor. I don't know how to deal with the real issue because I have neither the details of your relationship or the details of the interview. You listed some QUESTIONS from the interview but not any ANSWERS. You indicate your bona fides are certain but provide no details.

There were both questions AND answers in the interview. Additionally, the interview went as it did based primarily on the details available to the officers in the paperwork before them. The strongest evidence of bona fide relationship is the evidence showing the time the couple spends together in person. It's not the only important evidence, just the MOST important. None of us has a clue as to what evidence of your relationship was evaluated prior to the interview.

[trojam227 18]

Maiortum, they weren't able to find marriage fraud in your case so don't even focus on that. I totally agree that if our govt is going to post guidelines and then allow their employees to go outside of those guidelines, then WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING GUIDELINES!! Your situation infuriates me to no end. But the others are right...what matters is getting your wife here right now. After she gets that greencard THEN set those corrupt, no good, filthy ??@^8*&'s straight!!!

Ya know, one time right before I married my husband, a UK Border control officer (female) said to me after 10 minutes of questions, "How long are you planning on carrying on your relationship this way?" I really took offense to that...under my breath I was thinking "what business is it of yours how I conduct my relationships lady!" but had those words come out of my mouth, she could have refused my entry and my husband on the other end of the hallway would have been gutted. So I humbly answered "As long as it takes."

Sometimes we have to swallow our pride and follow their rules...not forever though. Go work on that AOS diligently, get revenge later.