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tthomas

FRE requesting Marriage Certificate for me and my fiance

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Filed: Country: Vietnam
Timeline

Hi All,

Today I received an RFE notice in the mail. We are applying for a k-1 visa. My fiance is from Vietnam.

We had an engagement party and back in October. At that time we had pre-wedding photos taken so that we would have the big picture for the wedding party that we had on the last visit in February. We did not get legally married and planned to do that when we got to a court house here but had a wedding there for her family.

When I turned in our first I-129F package after our engagement party I included the photos of us in wedding outfits.

The RFE is requesting a “Marriage Certificate”. It is also request “Termination of Prior Marriage” proof from both of us.

I am not sure how to respond correctly. Neither of us has been married before. I gave and explanation with the I-129F form detailing each visit that explains that we had photos taken for a future wedding party. It is confusing because I did not apply for a spousal visa.

I have attached a pdf of the RFE.

Can anyone give me advise on how to proceed?

Tim

Edited by tthomas

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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Philippines
Timeline

There has been tons of discussion on this board about avoiding the appearance of wedding ceremonies. And the biggest caution is against having photos taken that look like a wedding and then sending them to USCIS. It sounds like you did exactly that.

Since you cannot provide what is asked, send them a very clear letter explaining what the situation is. You need to be very clear with them.

If they continue to want evidence of a marriage that doesn't exist, even after explaining what really happened, they may deny your petition. You can then appeal or just resubmit your package WITHOUT potentially dangerous photos.

You can't give them what they want (marriage certificate, etc.) so explain what happened to them.

Good luck

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Filed: Other Country: Philippines
Timeline

Serious shot yourself in the foot with that one, for sure NOT the photos to include with a K-1. Not sure how you will get past that one easily.


Hank

"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"

 

 

HandArrow.gif       Visa Process at USEM for the Philippines;  https://www.visaconnection-philippines.com/us-embassy-usem.html

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Uganda
Timeline

I wonder when the Vietnam forum people will show up and insist that including/openly posting photos in wedding attire when applying for a K-1 is perfectly fine, even expected? (http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/354194-interview-proof-of-relationship/) Still seems like a potentially problematic idea to me, and this situation illustrates exactly why. Even if it *is* completely normal to have a universally accepted symbol of something (wedding dress = marriage) not necessarily mean what it symbolizes at all in a particular context (Vietnam), there's no way to ensure that everyone throughout this lengthy and multi-location process will understand that, so even if it is possible to overcome a problem like this, why would someone willingly risk the headache? Good luck getting this sorted out!


Joy (& Aaron, who doesn't read/post here yet)

Dec. 27, 2010: First met each other in Entebbe, Uganda while I was visiting my friend/his cousin (12/27/10 - 1/10/11) (visited again Jul. 2-9, 2011 and Dec. 24, 2011 - Jan. 9, 2012; engaged 1/7/12)

K-1

Feb. 18, 2012: I-129F sent (delivered 2/21 per USPS & USCIS; NOA1 notice date 2/23/12; check cashed/email/text 2/24)

Aug. 9, 2012: NOA2!!! [NOA1 +168 days] (reached NVC 8/17, left NVC 8/20; @embassy 8/24; embassy confirmed receipt 9/5)

Oct. 24 - Nov. 8, 2012: I visited again (Nairobi: medical 10/31; interview 11/5 [NOA1 +256 days]; result--APPROVED!!!!!!!)

Nov. 15, 2012: Visa in hand (was ready for retrieval 11/12/12)

Nov. 20, 2012: POE, Boston!!! (legal marriage 12/12/12; family/friends wedding ceremony 1/12/13) (276 days)

AOS/EAD/AP

Feb. 4, 2013: AOS packet sent (delivered 2/6, NOA1 text/email & check cashed 2/11 midnight)

Feb. 11, 2013: NOA1 notice date for I-485, EAD, AP (I-485/EAD NOA1 hard copies & biometrics appt letter arrived 2/16, badly mangled AP NOA1 arrived 2/27; biometrics done 3/4/13)

Apr. 3, 2013: EAD & AP approved (received card 4/11)

Aug. 16, 2013: I-485 approved & green card production ordered!!!! (card arrived 8/26/13) (193 days)

ROC

2015 sometime? I've slept since then.

Naturalization

Dec. 20, 2019: N-400 submitted online (Boston, MA field office)

Jan. 9, 2020: Biometrics

Feb. 4, 2020: updated wait time = 4 months (estimated case completion June 2020)

Aug. 7, 2020: interview scheduled (!), but no idea when

Sept. 16, 2020: interview, Boston (approved)

Sept. 24, 2020: oath ceremony, Boston---DONE!!! (279 days from submission)

230Hm5.pngxrcBm5.png

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Filed: Country: Vietnam
Timeline

Darn, I did not know. It is important to have the engagement ceremony in Vietnamese then have a wedding party. I did not know that it mattered if you have a wedding. I thought it would only be a wedding with a certificate. I guess I messed this up pretty good.

Thanks for the replies.

Tim

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Filed: Country: Vietnam
Timeline

I wonder when the Vietnam forum people will show up and insist that including/openly posting photos in wedding attire when applying for a K-1 is perfectly fine, even expected? (http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/354194-interview-proof-of-relationship/) Still seems like a potentially problematic idea to me, and this situation illustrates exactly why. Even if it *is* completely normal to have a universally accepted symbol of something (wedding dress = marriage) not necessarily mean what it symbolizes at all in a particular context (Vietnam), there's no way to ensure that everyone throughout this lengthy and multi-location process will understand that, so even if it is possible to overcome a problem like this, why would someone willingly risk the headache? Good luck getting this sorted out!

Would it be bad etiquette for me to re-post this on the Vietnam forum?

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Uganda
Timeline

Would it be bad etiquette for me to re-post this on the Vietnam forum?

Yes, from what I have seen I think it would be frowned upon, although perhaps a moderator will move this one for you if that would be more relevant place for the thread.


Joy (& Aaron, who doesn't read/post here yet)

Dec. 27, 2010: First met each other in Entebbe, Uganda while I was visiting my friend/his cousin (12/27/10 - 1/10/11) (visited again Jul. 2-9, 2011 and Dec. 24, 2011 - Jan. 9, 2012; engaged 1/7/12)

K-1

Feb. 18, 2012: I-129F sent (delivered 2/21 per USPS & USCIS; NOA1 notice date 2/23/12; check cashed/email/text 2/24)

Aug. 9, 2012: NOA2!!! [NOA1 +168 days] (reached NVC 8/17, left NVC 8/20; @embassy 8/24; embassy confirmed receipt 9/5)

Oct. 24 - Nov. 8, 2012: I visited again (Nairobi: medical 10/31; interview 11/5 [NOA1 +256 days]; result--APPROVED!!!!!!!)

Nov. 15, 2012: Visa in hand (was ready for retrieval 11/12/12)

Nov. 20, 2012: POE, Boston!!! (legal marriage 12/12/12; family/friends wedding ceremony 1/12/13) (276 days)

AOS/EAD/AP

Feb. 4, 2013: AOS packet sent (delivered 2/6, NOA1 text/email & check cashed 2/11 midnight)

Feb. 11, 2013: NOA1 notice date for I-485, EAD, AP (I-485/EAD NOA1 hard copies & biometrics appt letter arrived 2/16, badly mangled AP NOA1 arrived 2/27; biometrics done 3/4/13)

Apr. 3, 2013: EAD & AP approved (received card 4/11)

Aug. 16, 2013: I-485 approved & green card production ordered!!!! (card arrived 8/26/13) (193 days)

ROC

2015 sometime? I've slept since then.

Naturalization

Dec. 20, 2019: N-400 submitted online (Boston, MA field office)

Jan. 9, 2020: Biometrics

Feb. 4, 2020: updated wait time = 4 months (estimated case completion June 2020)

Aug. 7, 2020: interview scheduled (!), but no idea when

Sept. 16, 2020: interview, Boston (approved)

Sept. 24, 2020: oath ceremony, Boston---DONE!!! (279 days from submission)

230Hm5.pngxrcBm5.png

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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Vietnam
Timeline

OP - It looks like the consulate thinks you are married. Once this is in their head, it's going to be hard to convince them otherwise. You can try to explain but not sure it will help you.

Maybe really get married and do a CR/R1 instead.

Best wishes!

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Filed: AOS (apr) Country: Vietnam
Timeline

Would it be bad etiquette for me to re-post this on the Vietnam forum?

It can be a big deal if DoS confuses the Dam Hoi and Dam Cui.. Many here have had the same photo shoots done and we always recommend that you don't send wedding style photos as it tends to confuse the little mided CSR's that handle the paperwork. Best thing is to send in a affidavit that says you were not married before or yet and explain the photos... as a cultural thing that is commonly done prior to the actual wedding in VN.


"Every one of us bears within himself the possibilty of all passions, all destinies of life in all its forms. Nothing human is foreign to us" - Edward G. Robinson.

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Uganda
Timeline

We did not get legally married and planned to do that when we got to a court house here but had a wedding there for her family.

I kind of skimmed over this part on the first reading, but it seems like this (bolding mine) could be a problem more than having photos in wedding attire. I have read here about other people running into situations when they had a ceremony in another country that was not legally binding in that country but ended up being considered a legitimate marriage here in the US (as many types of traditional ceremonies are: I don't have the thread handy, but there was a man who had a traditional Muslim ceremony overseas while still married to a US wife and seemed to have wound up not eligible for K-1 *or* CR-1 due to being thought to have legitimately married the 2nd spouse while still married to the 1st one, even though the 2nd marriage was not considered official in the non-US country). Was it an actual wedding ceremony, with guests and vows and all?


Joy (& Aaron, who doesn't read/post here yet)

Dec. 27, 2010: First met each other in Entebbe, Uganda while I was visiting my friend/his cousin (12/27/10 - 1/10/11) (visited again Jul. 2-9, 2011 and Dec. 24, 2011 - Jan. 9, 2012; engaged 1/7/12)

K-1

Feb. 18, 2012: I-129F sent (delivered 2/21 per USPS & USCIS; NOA1 notice date 2/23/12; check cashed/email/text 2/24)

Aug. 9, 2012: NOA2!!! [NOA1 +168 days] (reached NVC 8/17, left NVC 8/20; @embassy 8/24; embassy confirmed receipt 9/5)

Oct. 24 - Nov. 8, 2012: I visited again (Nairobi: medical 10/31; interview 11/5 [NOA1 +256 days]; result--APPROVED!!!!!!!)

Nov. 15, 2012: Visa in hand (was ready for retrieval 11/12/12)

Nov. 20, 2012: POE, Boston!!! (legal marriage 12/12/12; family/friends wedding ceremony 1/12/13) (276 days)

AOS/EAD/AP

Feb. 4, 2013: AOS packet sent (delivered 2/6, NOA1 text/email & check cashed 2/11 midnight)

Feb. 11, 2013: NOA1 notice date for I-485, EAD, AP (I-485/EAD NOA1 hard copies & biometrics appt letter arrived 2/16, badly mangled AP NOA1 arrived 2/27; biometrics done 3/4/13)

Apr. 3, 2013: EAD & AP approved (received card 4/11)

Aug. 16, 2013: I-485 approved & green card production ordered!!!! (card arrived 8/26/13) (193 days)

ROC

2015 sometime? I've slept since then.

Naturalization

Dec. 20, 2019: N-400 submitted online (Boston, MA field office)

Jan. 9, 2020: Biometrics

Feb. 4, 2020: updated wait time = 4 months (estimated case completion June 2020)

Aug. 7, 2020: interview scheduled (!), but no idea when

Sept. 16, 2020: interview, Boston (approved)

Sept. 24, 2020: oath ceremony, Boston---DONE!!! (279 days from submission)

230Hm5.pngxrcBm5.png

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Filed: Country: Vietnam
Timeline

It can be a big deal if DoS confuses the Dam Hoi and Dam Cui.. Many here have had the same photo shoots done and we always recommend that you don't send wedding style photos as it tends to confuse the little mided CSR's that handle the paperwork. Best thing is to send in a affidavit that says you were not married before or yet and explain the photos... as a cultural thing that is commonly done prior to the actual wedding in VN.

Thank you for the advise. I may be in even deeper. We had a wedding party on my last visit. I am worried now that they may accuse us of fraud if I claim to not be married or try to hide it. I would like to try to continue on with the k1 for speed but I am not sure if it will risk plan B, getting married and getting a spousal visa.

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Ukraine
Timeline

Darn, I did not know. It is important to have the engagement ceremony in Vietnamese then have a wedding party. I did not know that it mattered if you have a wedding. I thought it would only be a wedding with a certificate. I guess I messed this up pretty good.

Thanks for the replies.

Tim

While what you did may be expected at the consulate it is not expected at USCIS. Your only option is to explain it is NOT a wedding but a traditional Vietnamese engagement ceremony. (If that is what it was) Attach some references of what this is and re-state you have never been married (IF you have never been married)

If what you had WAS a wedding then it is accepted by the US and you will have to repeat the wedding, get a marriage certificate and file for a CR-1


VERMONT! I Reject Your Reality...and Substitute My Own!

Gary And Alla

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Ukraine
Timeline

OP - It looks like the consulate thinks you are married. Once this is in their head, it's going to be hard to convince them otherwise. You can try to explain but not sure it will help you.

Maybe really get married and do a CR/R1 instead.

Best wishes!

He is not at the consulate yet. The RFE is from USCIS. The consulate would KNOW what this is. The adjudicator at USCIS handling the petition does not know this.

Explain it, reference as many sources as possible, preferably from some other US government source such as the HCMC consulate (sometimes they will list to bring such things as evidence) gather up as much info on the practice as you can and send it in.

For the petition it is only necessary to show you have met in person ONE TIME within the last two years. I sent ONE photo of us together. ONE. This practice of so-called "front loading" can just as easily shoot oneself in the mouth as be helpful.


VERMONT! I Reject Your Reality...and Substitute My Own!

Gary And Alla

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Filed: Timeline

He is not at the consulate yet. The RFE is from USCIS. The consulate would KNOW what this is. The adjudicator at USCIS handling the petition does not know this.Explain it, reference as many sources as possible, preferably from some other US government source such as the HCMC consulate (sometimes they will list to bring such things as evidence) gather up as much info on the practice as you can and send it in. For the petition it is only necessary to show you have met in person ONE TIME within the last two years. I sent ONE photo of us together. ONE. This practice of so-called "front loading" can just as easily shoot oneself in the mouth as be helpful.

I second that. While the officers at the consulate are expected to have a knowledge of local traditions and customs, the USCIS adjudicator handling your case at the service center may never even have been outside of California or Vermont.

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