K-1 interview. Do you required to have engagement party prior to interview?

[ScottThuy 140]

older people are not expected to have a dam hoi like a younger couple would be.. if you uncle was older, it could have been a non-issue.

[Alaska101 2]

why does that really matter if you are younger or older? it is actually the older generations that dam hoi is more important because most of the marriages were arranged between families. That was how they announced with families, and neighbors. Most of the times, Dam hoi was for the future broom and bride to meet each other the first time back in the day. nowaday, only rich families will do that because they have money and time. once again, if you are vietnamese you will understand that rich families still like the quote "mon dang hau doi" to show their families are matching status. today, dam hoi's party is optional because mutual agreement between the couples and families. the couples often find each other and not base on family arrangment anymore. Iam not try to offend anyone here, if you do feel offended i do offer my apology to you. Of course, you could have a traditional Dam Hoi if you want. what i try to say here is Dam Hoi is optional nowaday and vary by regions, financial status, family status and circumstances. most of often, people will combine the Dam Hoi and marriage together in a day or two days. It is my opinion that if the consulate holds that standard for everyone is stereotyping and could be offended to other people.

[WeatherEmperor 21]

Alaska101,

I understand where you are coming from. Unfortunately, the Consulate does not give a ####### about what you or anybody else thinks about if a Dam Hoi is appropriate or not. They only thing that they care about is preventing visa fraud...which is what they are paid to do. Your did not do a Dam Hoi before filing the I-129F petition...which could put you at a disadvantage because there is a high chance that the CO will reject any evidence you submit at the interview. If you had done a proper Dam Hoi...and put proof of the Dam Hoi with your I-129F petition, the Consulate would not be able to hold that against you at the interview. In your case, I do somewhat understand you in a sense that a Dam Hoi at this stage could be pointless because there is a big chance that the Consulate will reject the evidence at the interview.

Having said that, I think it would be wise if you follow the advise that was given to you. Most of us, including myself, have gone through this experience before and are very knowledgeable about this topic. In my opinion I think you should go ahead and do a proper Dam Hoi and keep all the evidence.

After all, you were the person that posted this question on Visa Journey and therefore members on this forum will share their wisdom with you. Best of luck!

[ScottThuy 140]

You asked and I am just telling you from experience what the CO's can do and have done in the past... what it all comes down to is the CO's perception, not what we think or what we feel or what we want... statistically an older couple is more likely to get approved without a Dam Hoi than a younger couple.. By older i mean much older.. the CO's look at it as if they are old enough to decide and don't need the family to help them decide..

[Alaska101 2]

thanks WeatherEmperor, i understand everyone only give good advices here. I just confuse because i know specific people went through the process without doing Dam Hoi. My uncle did 10 years ago. As for fraud, Dam Hoi does not prevent anything since it is not law abiding. So i think just base on Dam Hoi to indicate fraud or not is not a good way to do. I think they should give people some understanding and consideration instead just group everyone in one pot. Things will change that include traditions, and culture. I am sure marriage and things change here in U.S as well within the last 30, 20 or even 10 years ago. Espeacially, we are living in a modern age when everyone could communicate with each other around the world without seeing face to face. It is what it is, we do not have Dam Hoi so we will go against the odd if they force that against us. I just think it is unfair if they use that to deniel people. They did not call out specific in the application requirement. I hope they will look at other evidences such as our photos together with friends and families. I do have the receipt of the engagement ring and also the wedding rings, so i hope they will give us some slack.

[Alaska101 2]

to ScottThuy, yeah, i could see your point there. We are not old but not young either. I am 29 and she is 25 so i think we could make our old decision at that age. i have been living all by myself since after grad school for the past 5 years. if that is not an indication of i can make my owned decision then what else can i do to prove it. i came here at 15 so i do not know much about the whole marriage culture there. We did ask both families and they both agreed that we do not need one due to the distance and financial. Plus, i have been saving all the money for the up coming wedding and trying to pay off my student loans prior to start my family. I hope they do consider other evidences and not denial people base only at Dam Hoi.

[quann 26]

first off...your english is terrible for someone that went through grad school.

2nd...nothing is "traditional" about any of the relationships on this forum. the cases on here are very unique and rife with fraud so don't talk about traditions and customs like it's the norm with what's going on. the CO is trying to make the best decision they could with the limited amount of info and data they're given. they have the premises for what's accepted as a basic relationship according to Vietnamese customs, and among them is a dam hoi. for some it's a must, for some it's favored upon, for others it doesn't matter. it depends on the specific case, you can choose to do one or not but it couldn't hurt and one less red flag to explain away.

3rd...you're wrong about dam hoi being not a big deal in VN anymore...it's a big announcement and a big deal.

4th...your uncle went through this and he didn't advise you against this? also even though you don't think so i already see a couple huge red flags from your case (internet proposal, you/her are of an age where most marriage frauds tend to occur). the internet proposal plus no dam hoi make it seems like the relationship lacks commitment.

[Alaska101 2]

Quann, Thanks for the input. i try to stay on the possitive side here. like i said before, Dam Hoi is vary by regions and families. it could be a big deal with one family, but it could also not a big deal with other. I am not opposed against it, but you do not need a big party to announce it. It is just not something our families make a big deal about. my uncle told me i do not need Dam Hoi for I-129F. my sister got married in Michigan without a Dam Hoi too. My fiancee's family did not ask for one neither.

I agreed with you that it is very specific case by case. The CO has limited information to every case to make the decision. I hope they will understand our case, and not shut it down because we do not have a Dam Hoi. I do not think that is fair. we have all of our daily yahoo conversation since 2008 until today to back up our claim. we kept all of out letters, western union money transfer receipts for the past 2 years. I will be there soon for 2 months so we will have a lot more evidences for our case. I live in Fairbanks, Alaska. The vietnamese population here is next to none. I only met one other vietnamese person in town within the last 5 years.I assume it is a very low fraud region for this type of petition if CO compares with regions that have much bigger vietnamease population.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Quann, Thanks for the input. i try to stay on the possitive side here. like i said before, Dam Hoi is vary by regions and families. it could be a big deal with one family, but it could also not a big deal with other. I am not opposed against it, but you do not need a big party to announce it. It is just not something our families make a big deal about. my uncle told me i do not need Dam Hoi for I-129F. my sister got married in Michigan without a Dam Hoi too. My fiancee's family did not ask for one neither.

I agreed with you that it is very specific case by case. The CO has limited information to every case to make the decision. I hope they will understand our case, and not shut it down because we do not have a Dam Hoi. I do not think that is fair. we have all of our daily yahoo conversation since 2008 until today to back up our claim. we kept all of out letters, western union money transfer receipts for the past 2 years. I will be there soon for 2 months so we will have a lot more evidences for our case. I live in Fairbanks, Alaska. The vietnamese population here is next to none. I only met one other vietnamese person in town within the last 5 years.I assume it is a very low fraud region for this type of petition if CO compares with regions that have much bigger vietnamease population.

The consular officer doesn't know you. The consular officer doesn't know your fiancee. The consular officer doesn't know your family, nor her family, nor the people in the region or city/village she's from. What the consular officer does know is that immigration fraud is a HUGE problem in Vietnam, and that a good percentage of the applicants who come in to apply for a visa are lying to them. There are a whole lot of circumstances that might seem completely innocent to you, but that are indicators of potential fraud to them.

Like I said, the CO's at the consulate in HCMC think like your great grandmother when it comes to customs and traditions. Like it or not, it's their game and we have to play by their rules. A scammer might lie to the petitioner. They might lie to the petitioner's parents. They might even lie to their own parents. Being that Vietnamese people are somewhat conditioned to lie to their own government, the consular would have no doubt that the beneficiary would be willing to lie to them. But would they lie to everyone in the village? The consular officer is more likely to believe the relationship is legit if they have a traditional Dam Hoi followed by a fairly large party.

Here's the text from a denial issued by the consulate in HCMC:

The beneficiary and the petitioner did not have an engagement ceremony. This contradicts local, social and cultural norms in which many family members and friends are invited to engagement celebrations numbering in the hundreds of guest for even families of modest means.

This affirms the notion that a big party is evidence that the relationship is probably legitimate.

This has nothing to do with where you live, or whether there's a high rate of fraud amongst people in Fairbanks, Alaska. This has everything to do with the country she's from. There IS a high rate of visa fraud in Vietnam. You want to do everything you can to raise yourself above the suspicion that everyone else is going to be subjected to. Nobody here is going to promise that she'll be denied if you don't have a Dam Hoi. There have been plenty of cases of people who have been approved without a Dam Hoi. Just last year there was a VJ member, also Viet Kieu, whose fiancee was approved without a Dam Hoi. There have also been many VJ members who have been given a very hard time, or subjected to extended administrative processing, or even received a denial letter containing the statement I quoted above. We're all telling you, based on the collective experience of people on this forum, that a Dam Hoi is important. The consular officer will almost certainly ask about it.

[quann 26]

i also did not have a dam hoi fwiw...but had known my wife for 5 years (since '06) and had a son before filing. i did have moneygram receipts going back from early '07, i had plane tickets with our names traveling together since '08, and had photos of my whole family meeting her in '09. like i wrote in the timeline it was assumed by everybody we were eventually going to marry, and the subject was never brought up during the interview. they waited for my son's CRBA before giving my then fiancee the pink/visa.

if you can offer some unusual circumstances and hard proof like my case maybe they'll let you slide about the dam hoi also...i would not take the chance on the vn co letting anything slide tho.

Edited March 4, 2012 by quann

[brian_n_phuong 193]

Quann, Thanks for the input. i try to stay on the possitive side here. like i said before, Dam Hoi is vary by regions and families. it could be a big deal with one family, but it could also not a big deal with other. I am not opposed against it, but you do not need a big party to announce it. It is just not something our families make a big deal about. my uncle told me i do not need Dam Hoi for I-129F. my sister got married in Michigan without a Dam Hoi too. My fiancee's family did not ask for one neither.

I agreed with you that it is very specific case by case. The CO has limited information to every case to make the decision. I hope they will understand our case, and not shut it down because we do not have a Dam Hoi. I do not think that is fair. we have all of our daily yahoo conversation since 2008 until today to back up our claim. we kept all of out letters, western union money transfer receipts for the past 2 years. I will be there soon for 2 months so we will have a lot more evidences for our case. I live in Fairbanks, Alaska. The vietnamese population here is next to none. I only met one other vietnamese person in town within the last 5 years.I assume it is a very low fraud region for this type of petition if CO compares with regions that have much bigger vietnamease population.

Look, I understand where you are coming from, but trying to rationalize why the Dam Hoi is not important is a moot point.

When I became engaged I only had a limited Dam Hoi ( if such a thing exists). After speaking with her parents on the need for a full blown Dam Hoi they suggested that we just hit the highlights and skip most of the bling and ceremonials. We ended up going through some of the formalities, including meeting with the elders/parents in asking permission formally for marriage. We had a small celebratory dinner with the family (maybe 25 folks) at a local restaurant. I have plenty of pics of all that, but there were no Ao Dai's worn, and no engagement trappings (or a sign) at the dinner. I didn't consider this to be an issue UNTIL after joining VJ, and reading on the importance of the full Dam Hoi.

Where does that leave us?? Well I wasn't going to return to Viet Nam, and drag the whole family through ANOTHER Dam Hoi complete with Ao Dai, signs, and a 200 person dinner. That would just be a sham and only serve the purpose of taking some photos. I spoke with an attorney, soaked up every bit of info off the VJ Viet Nam forum, and decided the best course of action was to MITIGATE the damage. You can do the same!!

How did I mitigate?? First off i front-loaded the ####### out of the petition, which from looking at your timeline might be too late. The attorney I consulted suggested that I include sworn statements from both her parents, her corporate employer, and several other credible sources attesting to the relationship, knowledge of the engagement, the engagement party, and their concurrence with the engagement. These types of sworn statements are not gold standard evidence, but the attorney advised that they would present a strong counterweight to any perception that we are "hiding" the relationship from the family and community. Also, include as MANY pics as possible interacting with her family on different occasions. DON'T skimp on the relationship timeline and include as much FACTUAL detail as possible as the timeline may be scrutinized more closely ,. Include as much evidence as possible that can be attributed to a Western style engagement, including correspondence of "popping" the question, Engagement ring receipts. and any pictures of her WEARING the ring with the parents in view. Most important, be PREPARED to explain the situation to the CO. Sit down and discuss the situation with your fiancée, and even her parents if possible. I initially thought about putting a good "spin" on my Dam Hoi story, but after much thought I decide we should simply and sincerely tell the CO exactly what what was (and was not) included in our Dam Hoi. THose CO's have heard EVERY story and lie in the book, so simply telling the TRUTH may come off as much more credible, sincere, and heartfelt. I am not ashamed of how we accomplished our Dam Hoi, and am prepared to fully explain to the CO why we accomplished things in the manner that we did. The CO's understand we live in a real world that isn't always cookie cutter, and would more accepting of unorthodox circumstances if only people would not try to lie their way through the interview. I believe that most of the cases listing a lack of Dam Hoi as reason for denial were already near the fail point and were pushed off the edge by the couple trying to lie about something they couldn't prove (the Dam Hoi).

[ScottThuy 140]

Post violating TOS removed.

Edited March 4, 2012 by ScottThuy

[Ban Hammer 12,836]

one troll ejected.

[Sayha or bust. 71]

Look, I understand where you are coming from, but trying to rationalize why the Dam Hoi is not important is a moot point.

When I became engaged I only had a limited Dam Hoi ( if such a thing exists). After speaking with her parents on the need for a full blown Dam Hoi they suggested that we just hit the highlights and skip most of the bling and ceremonials. We ended up going through some of the formalities, including meeting with the elders/parents in asking permission formally for marriage. We had a small celebratory dinner with the family (maybe 25 folks) at a local restaurant. I have plenty of pics of all that, but there were no Ao Dai's worn, and no engagement trappings (or a sign) at the dinner. I didn't consider this to be an issue UNTIL after joining VJ, and reading on the importance of the full Dam Hoi.

Where does that leave us?? Well I wasn't going to return to Viet Nam, and drag the whole family through ANOTHER Dam Hoi complete with Ao Dai, signs, and a 200 person dinner. That would just be a sham and only serve the purpose of taking some photos. I spoke with an attorney, soaked up every bit of info off the VJ Viet Nam forum, and decided the best course of action was to MITIGATE the damage. You can do the same!!

How did I mitigate?? First off i front-loaded the ####### out of the petition, which from looking at your timeline might be too late. The attorney I consulted suggested that I include sworn statements from both her parents, her corporate employer, and several other credible sources attesting to the relationship, knowledge of the engagement, the engagement party, and their concurrence with the engagement. These types of sworn statements are not gold standard evidence, but the attorney advised that they would present a strong counterweight to any perception that we are "hiding" the relationship from the family and community. Also, include as MANY pics as possible interacting with her family on different occasions. DON'T skimp on the relationship timeline and include as much FACTUAL detail as possible as the timeline may be scrutinized more closely ,. Include as much evidence as possible that can be attributed to a Western style engagement, including correspondence of "popping" the question, Engagement ring receipts. and any pictures of her WEARING the ring with the parents in view. Most important, be PREPARED to explain the situation to the CO. Sit down and discuss the situation with your fiancée, and even her parents if possible. I initially thought about putting a good "spin" on my Dam Hoi story, but after much thought I decide we should simply and sincerely tell the CO exactly what what was (and was not) included in our Dam Hoi. THose CO's have heard EVERY story and lie in the book, so simply telling the TRUTH may come off as much more credible, sincere, and heartfelt. I am not ashamed of how we accomplished our Dam Hoi, and am prepared to fully explain to the CO why we accomplished things in the manner that we did. The CO's understand we live in a real world that isn't always cookie cutter, and would more accepting of unorthodox circumstances if only people would not try to lie their way through the interview. I believe that most of the cases listing a lack of Dam Hoi as reason for denial were already near the fail point and were pushed off the edge by the couple trying to lie about something they couldn't prove (the Dam Hoi).

Brian, the sworn statements I think, don't hold much weight, just about anything can be bought for a price in Vietnam, I too had a lawyer(Ellis) my fiancee had the local police sign a sworn document why I was there and when my party was, the attorney threw it in the garbage and told my fiancee that she wasted my money. I think the fact people front load their petitions with adequate evidence and proof of their travels helps the approval rates. I've heard too many stories also about their fiancees going to interview and not being able to answer personal questions about the Petitioner and getting a blue or even possibly a denial. Your fiancee should know everything about you so she can answer the CO without hesitation or I dunno.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Sayha or bust.

[tuandanh 3]

I didn't do a dam hoi. It's not weighted as much as some believe. It came up during our interview and probably was a strike against us but not the end of the world. Our interview was tough but we still passed in the end. Only do it if it's the right thing to do for your families. We sort of did ours in the USA after the fact as a warm up to our wedding. I would like to go back and have a post wedding celebration with our families in vn soon.

Don't force a dam hoi just to impress the officers. Do what is right and show your proof. Especially recommend you be at the interview in person.