I-485 RFE (INITIAL) RECEIVED , I-864 RELATED - PLS ADVISE !

[MatthewNCarolina 73]

Let's put it simple ok?

First, this section of the form is basically 1st grade mathematics..

If zero (0) would have been entered there in the first place, the final household size would be completely correct and accurate as to showing that it's you, your wife, and 2 kids. The reason this ALLLL happened is because your attorney threw a LETTER in a numerical box, which is going to immediately raise a question and make the officer "adjudicating" your form think "####### IS THE R FOR?!" Putting an "R", "Q", "P" "C" "#" "!", is all going to bring the same outcome, because of the simple purpose of that section of the form. It is designed according to how they want it to be, and throwing an "R" in there is just completely wrong. No matter what he meant by the "r", if he meant anything at all with it, it does not matter. They want to know the total household size, that's what it comes down to. They even give you a little box to put your sum of the previous numbers into, to make sure you are correct with your first grade math. Now, everyone is on here arguing over whether or not it was a mistake, typo, etc. which is also completely unnecessary, and somehow, you just let the attorney get mad that you are questioning his human error, and put trust into him being right. I say he's stupid and he should know by now that it's only meant to have a number in that little box. The final simple fact is, you would not be on here arguing and nobody else would be arguing with you for an eternity, if he had SIMPLY entered ZERO.

The rest of you should stop bringing up more to argue about as well. End it. The mistake was made no matter what and you have to wait for the outcome, and the only intelligent thing to do if you get an RFE again or denial is to do it yourself and make sure that little "R" is NOT IN ONE OF THOSE BOXES. Unfortunately none of this solves your problem but its clear that for a while now, nobody is trying to help solve any problem, just argue. Good luck to you and I swear if I was in your position I would have been pretty pissed off over the "r" lol. I had no experience with paperwork, especially of this level involving the government and immigration... I was also scared to death the whole time I was putting together the I-129F petition to bring my fiancee, now my wife, here to be with me. I took my time putting it together and stressed over a lot, but I just paid attention to detail and took advice, and we're now currently waiting for the rest of her AOS and had absolutely no RFE whatsoever along the way (knock on wood).

I think if I had paid an attorney and then realized that many people did it on their own with no RFE or even one RFE, I'd be sitting here today wishing her and I had that extra money to ourselves right now. Here's my 2 cents, since everyone else has no problem giving theirs, even when it's not helping, I figured I'd post this because it's already gone way too far.

Good luck,

Matt

[KayDeeCee 4,891]

A lot of people feel resentful here about lawyers , but that is the wrong position. It is not different from having negative views of entire race or ethnic group of people. You can't judge all people by their occupation.

I still don't know if my lawyer made a mistake or not.

You came to this forum asking advice because you received an RFE for a form you paid a lawyer to fill out correctly for you. The majority of people on this forum did not use a lawyer, filled out our forms correctly and received no RFEs. 90% of the posts I see here on VJ about lawyers are posted because the person hired an attorney and the attorney did not file their case correctly, and/or gave them wrong information about the laws and procedures.

I am not resentful of lawyers. I have no reason to be. It is indeed a waste of money to pay someone to fill out forms that can be filled out yourself for free, and completed correctly the first time around.

You asked us for answer, and you received the same correct answer over and over. It was wrong, the answer was supposed to be a 0. You apparently do not like the answer you have been receiving, so I am not sure why you came here to ask in the first place then.

It was wrong. The example form shows how it is to be filled out. You do not count anyone twice, therefore, since you are listed as the immigrant already, your wife puts a 0 for spouse. This form can be used by other people that have a spouse that is NOT the immigrant, and they would need to count their spouse there. In the case of the sponsor being married to the immigrant, they need to enter 0 for the simple fact that is plainly stated: DO NOT COUNT ANYONE TWICE! For the purpose of this form, when the sponsor is married to the immigrant, then they are counted as the immigrant being sponsored by them in 21 a., and they are not counted as the spouse in such a case, so that is a 0 in 21 c. It is not really that difficult. There definitely is no reason for any letters such as an 'r' to be entered in any of those boxes.

I filled out my I-864 just like that, with 1 for 21 a. and a 0 for 21 c. My husband's AOS was approved without an RFE.

You doubted what your lawyer put on the form, came here, discovered it WAS wrong to input an 'r' in the field, and STILL you wonder if it was a mistake or not. *shrugs* Wonder away.

[Operator 1,925]

"Enter the number here"

"Enter the number here"

"Enter the number here"

"Enter the number here"

"Add up each line and enter the number here"

Answer = R

Buy one RFE get another one free.

[Sandra G. 5,009]

Are you sure he is a lawyer??????? hummmmmmm tell him "go back to law school"!!!

[Camo 5]

C'meon people, lets be nice. AOS and dealing with USCIS is a stressful experience.

[aosapplicant 3]

Today I have written a cover letter and mailed a copy of requested evidence to USCIS. I have entered ones and zeroes where applicable.

Mailed by Express, should reach Lee's Summit, MO no later than Saturday (USCIS probably won't pick it up until Monday).

They may or may not dismiss the second RFE response. They may or may not deny the whole petition for a typo. If denied for a typo, I assume it will state something to the effect of "...due to failure to follow instructions..." If adjudicator is judicious he may, instead, schedule an interview and let the field office get this right.

We will see.

Everybody, calm down.

You have strong opinions about attorneys being waste of time and money and you are free to express it.

I am just as entitled to my point of view and say that professional

attorney is a must in any type of legal proceeding, no matter how simple it may appear to you. If some attorneys fail in what they do it doesn't mean their trade is useless or that they are bad people as a group.

It's just unfortunate that we all live in the times where professionalism gives place to opportunism.

I am still going to withhold my judgement about my attorney until after I see the outcome of my case and of this particular RFE response.

Even though I tend to think he made an error (and very very inexcusable if it indeed gets me into unmerited complication) , yet I won't

trash and berate him just because of my initial assessment and strong emotions, stress and duress that I had endured these past two days.

Let's not jump to conclusions too fast. I will post my case status updates here.

Thanks to all who share their views and perspective. As always those of you who were in similar circumstance will make the most valuable

contribution if you share how did it end up in your case.

Best Regards,

AOS Applicant

Edited March 2, 2012 by aosapplicant

[Soapz 14]

You wrote that you sent a coverletter and the requested evidence. Did you include the RFE letter (original from USCIS) as well? They always ask to include it.

As to the lawyer debate: There are a lot of lawyers that advertise in immigration to make money without knowing more than the basics about the process/ processes. They give you some print-outs, a few lists and charge outrageous amounts of money to file the papers. So, even if you are convinced that a lawyer is a must for any kind of legal proceedings, most of us here are not. I filed without legal help, I used the guides here and everything went without a hitch. So, any money paid to a lawyer would have been a waste of money. If your case is clear-cut there really is no need and can be done without one.

You mentioned in an earlier post: "...I know I will win my case in the end if there is a denial due to such a typo or an error , but it is a nightmare, of course, to start a litigious battle in EOIR that may take year or two to finish when everything could be completed in just a 6 months.

That would definitely piss me off a lot and I would, no mistake about it, make this law firm accountable before the body of its' peers..."

I don't consider AOS a "case", nothing happens in front of a judge and jury. So yes, I agree with the general opinion here that in your situation I do not see the need for a lawyer - but if it makes you feel better, use one. Personally I believe you would have been much more meticulous filling out the form yourself, so the RFE wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Good luck!

[aosapplicant 3]

I have placed the copy of RFE request letter on top, followed by cover letter and the copy of requested evidence (the one filled to the best

of our understanding of the I-864 instructions, which instructs to not enter same person twice and leave blank or enter zero for spouse on line 21.c if included on line 21.a).

There are lots of malpracticing charlatans who masquerade as professionals, this behavior is not limited to the trade of lawyers. If we will criticize let's criticize all and not blame the specific occupation or all who engage in it for the wrongs done by bunch of miseducated crooks.

I will be just as upset as anyone ever wronged by an attorney IF my case gets denied or complicated because of such reckless oversight my attorney and stupid error

of typing clerk or legal assistant in his office. But first I have to see the final outcome. And second, be what it may, I am still going to hold the profession in high esteem.

There are many people who file on their own and sail through without any problems. But then there are people we all heard of who filed and got their cases lost, misplaced or wrongfully denied, even when they subsequently proved in court 100% undisputed eligibility for benefit sought and were granted the same by the judges.

Human error coupled with Murthy law can do a lot of unpredictable things that many of you dismiss because you seem to be high on idealistic end and unwilling to consider many unfortunate yet practically unavoidable incidents ,of which various forum boards are providing ample examples, where people had trouble in case processing that had nothing to do with their eligibility for benefit at all.

A good lawyer in such , although rare yet realistically occurring cases, is indispensable.

I hired an attorney to fully protect all my rights under the law and to avoid any technical error in app filing. It turns out that attorney [who probably let his paralegal or assistant to type the forms while cursing that $13/hour job] didn't even bother to thoroughly review the forms before submitting them to USCIS (one must wonder what for did I pay for 10 hours of average lawyerly rates), yet I am still withholding my judgement because it is only when I see the final outcome will I be in position to weigh the gravity of clerical error and its' impact on quality of my every day life.

As of now I will sit back and wait for next update and may be just schedule an INFOPASS to speak with immigration officer in person , to explain what happened and ask if there is any way to assure that the processing office doesn't dismiss the response I mailed yesterday.

Let's wait and see for now.

In the meantime those of you who had a lawyer submitting a petition, with clerical errors/typos that had NOTHING to do with your eligibility but which resulted in RFE, and which subsequently resulted in petition being denied or approved, sharing your inputs would be very valuable and very much appreciated!

Thanks to all who participate and best regards,

AOS Applicant

[Operator 1,925]

Did you ever mention what you are adjusting from? You have no timeline or visa listed.

[aosapplicant 3]

Quick update:

The response that I have mailed ( post #41 ) had reached the NBC, but there have not been any updates on case status since my attorneys

response reached and was noted on e-cas.

Now it's a matter of time, I guess we will next hear about the EAD/AP decision and get IL or the whole petition will be denied because of some

typo in one square. We will see.

I did INFOPASS. Was pleasantly surprised with the customer service, very good local office , friendly personnel, few people waiting, fast processing.

Alas, the case is in NBC so there is nothing local office can do.

So, any of you who sent apps to Chicago lock-box and was transferred to NBC or any of regional Service Centers: send a letter of explanation directly

to where you filed your paperwork and resort to INFOPASS only if you have a general question or if your case is being handled by that local office

or has been way beyond processing times.

Good luck to all AOS applicants. I'll update as soon as we hear from USCIS.

[Ban Hammer 12,829]

one post removed per op request, two jokes removed along with one quoting, and one thread hijack removed.

jokes belong in the lower forums. hijacking the thread with a personal vendetta isn't allowed either.

please stay on topic.

[aosapplicant 3]

USCIS has updated the e-cas that indicates they have received the response to RFE (so, that means they DID accept for the record the second RFE response,

which I have mailed after my attorney!)

I consider it to be a positive development , since the update says that they will resume the processing of the case in light of the new RFE response

received.

I do not expect any further developments anytime soon, since it is at the stage where (if approved) EAD/AP is going to be issued in the next 60 days

and, if everything else my attorney submitted is in order, the I-485 interview may be scheduled sometime in April or May.

So I will leave this board for now, but I will return to post future updates.

Thank you everyone who participated in this thread and tried to help.

Best regards,

AOS Applicant