I'm just curious how people feel about this

[Joel Halfwassen 0]

My answer to your original question would be...It depends. However, I do feel that the system to get people into the US is SO messed up. I live in Phoenix so I see illegals (mostly from Mexico and a few from Canada) every day. Mexico illegals normally do jobs that most American would not want to do. I would bet money that the company I hired to clean my pool, wash my car, and take care of my yard and garden are using illegal workers. There is obvious demand for the labor. What American would want to do that kind of work...especially in the 120 degree summers? Why not let them in if they want to work? As for the Canadians...I know of several retirees who work illegally in the US. They work for hardware stores, drug stores, or other 'box' stores offering advice to customers, working as cashiers, or just plain being helpful. They are working because they just want something to do.

Now...in both of these groups they are providing economic and commercial benefit to the community. Should they be sent home for that? There has been a lot of criticism of our governor (and NM's, CO's, and CA's governors) from other states of turning a blind eye to those who are in the US working illegally. The reality is that as long as they are working and productive, who cares?

Now...do we give them citizenship? Nope. You have to work for citizenship. Do it the right way. It is a special privilege to be from another country and to become a US citizen. Keep it that way.

Joel

[Minfay 0]

People who knowingly entered the US illegally should have no chance at immigration to this country. People who entered legally but then remained illegally, well some of them didn't realize and that is a different story.

Ignorance of the law is not supposed to be an excuse.

I agree 100% with that!!

[Marc and Olga 0]

My answer to your original question would be...It depends. However, I do feel that the system to get people into the US is SO messed up. I live in Phoenix so I see illegals (mostly from Mexico and a few from Canada) every day. Mexico illegals normally do jobs that most American would not want to do. I would bet money that the company I hired to clean my pool, wash my car, and take care of my yard and garden are using illegal workers. There is obvious demand for the labor. What American would want to do that kind of work...especially in the 120 degree summers? Why not let them in if they want to work? As for the Canadians...I know of several retirees who work illegally in the US. They work for hardware stores, drug stores, or other 'box' stores offering advice to customers, working as cashiers, or just plain being helpful. They are working because they just want something to do.

Now...in both of these groups they are providing economic and commercial benefit to the community. Should they be sent home for that? There has been a lot of criticism of our governor (and NM's, CO's, and CA's governors) from other states of turning a blind eye to those who are in the US working illegally. The reality is that as long as they are working and productive, who cares?

Now...do we give them citizenship? Nope. You have to work for citizenship. Do it the right way. It is a special privilege to be from another country and to become a US citizen. Keep it that way.

Joel

I guess up in Phoenix you lead a sheltered life, I live in southwest Tucson, much closer to the border and I see a much different picture, I see "hot dog" stands popping up all over my part of town (5 in 1- 5 mile stretch of road) that I would be willing to bet are operated by illegals, not a job I would want to do but certainly not a needed job, IMHO. I know people who would LOVE to have a job, ANY job even landscaping, washing cars or cleaning a pool or 2!

Heck pool cleaning cannot be too bad, I knew a guy that gave up a 40k/year job to do pool cleaning!

I say send them back, they came illegally, they KNEW they were coming illegal and NEVER let them come legally...if they come and have children, then their child can come BY THEMSELVES when they are 18+.

As for the "unwanted" jobs, I also feel that MORE enforcement is needed on hiring illegals, slap the 10s of thousands of dollars in fines on a company and I bet they would think twice before hiring another illegal or retaining the ones they have already!

I am sick of hearing these (illegal) "immigrant" groups crying that they deserve their rights when their first act in the US was an illegal act, that of entering in the first place! I am further sickened by the local paper stating that it won't end. BULLSHIRT, take away the jobs and they have no reason to come!

Of course with our government I highly doubt that will EVER happen!

Another thing I am sick of seeing is the pampering to the spanish speakers, this IS the USA (an ENGLISH speaking country) make everything in English.

In Russia, there is a big illegal immigrant problem but there the illegals HAVE to learn Russian or they will not survive, EVERYTHING is Russian!

But hey, that's just my little opinion!

[Alex+R 0]

People who knowingly entered the US illegally should have no chance at immigration to this country. People who entered legally but then remained illegally, well some of them didn't realize and that is a different story.

I think I would rather have the ones who knew what they were doing. I mean, in this day and age, how stupid are you if you don't know how serious it is to overstay an American visa. Probably too stupid to make a useful contribution to the U.S.

[Fuzzness 2]

We put our blood, sweat, tears, and money...into doing it the right way.

A tad melodramatic, doncha think?

I don't recall bleeding, sweating or crying into the process.

I do recall paying application fees though.

you didn't get the form that had to be filled out in blood while in a sweatbox filled full of cut onions?

People who knowingly entered the US illegally should have no chance at immigration to this country. People who entered legally but then remained illegally, well some of them didn't realize and that is a different story.

Ignorance of the law is not supposed to be an excuse.

no, but intent counts for something

People who knowingly entered the US illegally should have no chance at immigration to this country. People who entered legally but then remained illegally, well some of them didn't realize and that is a different story.

I think I would rather have the ones who knew what they were doing. I mean, in this day and age, how stupid are you if you don't know how serious it is to overstay an American visa. Probably too stupid to make a useful contribution to the U.S.

some people voted for Bush...

[no name 1]

I think I would rather have the ones who knew what they were doing. I mean, in this day and age, how stupid are you if you don't know how serious it is to overstay an American visa. Probably too stupid to make a useful contribution to the U.S.

some people voted for Bush...

I proudly mailed my overseas ballot from London! Even marched against him when he visited that Fall w/ a Yank expat group.

Edited September 27, 2006 by devilette

[JanaknJanet 0]

Illegal is Illegal in any sense of the word... I personally feel that if a person knowingly is here in our country.. obviously they intended to be here.. and remain here.. thus the reason for the Illegal status.. If we give them rights to stay.. **cough... rights?? when is it that being ILLEGAL grants you rights to a country that has rights?? Just cause there is presence..augh it does not mean you have the rights to what is given to the citizens of the country be it USA be it France UK India Africa... I do not know of ANY country that will grant you the same rights as those that have dedicated themselves to the country ie. residency status.. (LEGALLY)

The pro-illegal alien people talk about America being a land of immigrants. Yes, it is a land of immigrants. LEGAL immigrants. My guess is that there weren't hordes of ILLEGAL Irish storming Ellis Island in the 1800s and hordes of ILLEGAL Italians storming Ellis Island in the 1900s. Those Irish, Chinese and Italians were LEGAL immigrants. Obviously, this is not a concept that is understood by those who are invading AMERICA ILLEGALLY and then demanding their rights! My God, but when our ancestors immigrated here they did so under the law. When we came out west, we came and won the land by force. It was the way of the world at the time. Once here, we established laws. The illegal aliens here now are breaking those laws

Below is a exerpt from what is a citizen

" Most people in America value the term citizen, however most fail to understand that a citizen is also a subject i.e. subject to the sovereign. /1\ To set the premise on this term in question, we first should establish what a citizen is. A bit of history and legal evaluation: For one to be a citizen, he first has to be a member of a nation, which is referred to as nationality or one being that of a national e.g. Cherokee national, Florida national, Iowa national, etc.

We should ask ourselves why does one have to be a citizen if he is a national?

The answer: It is a scheme that was set up by the World Elite under the doctrines established by the work of Vattel. The scheme was to set-up the legal fiction or presumption that a man or woman of a nation agrees with everything that the government of the nation does; accordingly this then set forth that all men and women were subject to the general laws of the State. Pursuant to these factors, there is a general misconception that government officials are servants, however they are regarded as rulers or sovereign i.e. King. /2\

Now to show the premise established by American law.

The federal constitution utilized the principle of Vattel and established the premise or legal fiction that everyone born in the nited States of America (i.e. several states) was a citizen at birth. This is the presumption anyway.

Now to prove this assertion, look at the following definition that was of the period prior to the so-called Civil War as set forth by Bouvier's Law Dictionary, 1856:

PERSONS. This word is applied to men, women and children, who are called natural persons. In law, man and person are not exactly synonymous terms. Any human being is a man, whether he be a member of society or not, whatever may be the rank he holds, or whatever may be his age, sex, &c. A person is a man considered according to the rank he holds in society, with all the rights to which the place he holds entitles him, and the duties which it imposes. Persons are also divided into citizens, (q.v.) and aliens, (q.v.) when viewed with regard to their political rights.

Hence, a man—or woman—is a human being, however they are not a "person" unless they are a member a civil society i.e. a state, body politic or nation.

Accordingly, the term person then takes on many different meanings: In American law, the term "citizen" relates to a person with political rights; an alien does not have political rights. A person is a member of a nation. A man or woman that is a member of the nation has a nationality. If one is not a person, he or she is looked at as stateless, hence any such man or woman has no protections under his people (nation) or government.

Therefore, as established under the American system of republican government (a misconception by most people in the freedom movement ), a man is not truly considered a "citizen" until the right is engaged by participation; when engaged he becomes a subject i.e. subject to the laws of the state as he is: 1) agreeing to legislation for his participation by voting, or not setting forth that he is not a citizen: state and/or federal; or 2) subject to the law for taking government office."

ok ok .. now ill step off my soapbox...

[Savanphil 3]

We put our blood, sweat, tears, and money...into doing it the right way.

A tad melodramatic, doncha think?

I don't recall bleeding, sweating or crying into the process.

I do recall paying application fees though.

I did the sweating and crying....hubby contributed his Blood during the medical .

[munchkins 0]

I am writing an essay for a class of mine and the subject matter is -Giving A Path Of Citizenship To Illegal Immigrants-. I am curious what people's opinions are on this subject. Do you feel it would be unfair to reward illegal behavior while there are so many people going about this process legally and get denied or how do you feel? Any responses would be appreciated. Thanks

absolutely!

It still scares me that charles and I agree about something, but.......

Yup! If legal immigrants need proper medicals, background checks and boatloads of paperwork, so should the rest!

second that one

[Ban Hammer 12,829]

I think I would rather have the ones who knew what they were doing. I mean, in this day and age, how stupid are you if you don't know how serious it is to overstay an American visa. Probably too stupid to make a useful contribution to the U.S.

so you're saying that those who intentionally broke the law by crossing the border, you'd rather have them than someone, who thru their ignorance of the law, became illegal?

[Alex+R 0]

I think I would rather have the ones who knew what they were doing. I mean, in this day and age, how stupid are you if you don't know how serious it is to overstay an American visa. Probably too stupid to make a useful contribution to the U.S.

so you're saying that those who intentionally broke the law by crossing the border, you'd rather have them than someone, who thru their ignorance of the law, became illegal?

hahahaha...yes. I would. First of all, who are these people who just "become" illegal? I mean, come on.

Second of all, I would like the best and the brightest (of the poor) of someone else's country living here. I don't know many "lazy" illegal immigrants. I've never known one who worked fewer than 10 hours a day, to be honest.

That is the kind of work ethic I value, as a Midwesterner. It is hard for me to say "no, we don't want those people" when they're working ten times harder than my neighbor, who invented something 20 years ago and now just sits by the pool writing conservative letters to the newspaper.

[Ruteger 0]

Illegal immigration problem is easy to fix. first, you secure the border (yes, it can be done, w/the proper politcal will) - you stop dam from leaking (or flooding in the case of our southern border). Then you start cracking down on the employers who are hiring them. No jobs, no incentive to come here.

This is why am not voting for any Republican or Democrat candidate that supports amnesty.

I hope anyone from Florida reading this message does NOT vote for Crist for Governor - he supports amnesty.

[Ban Hammer 12,829]

I think I would rather have the ones who knew what they were doing. I mean, in this day and age, how stupid are you if you don't know how serious it is to overstay an American visa. Probably too stupid to make a useful contribution to the U.S.

so you're saying that those who intentionally broke the law by crossing the border, you'd rather have them than someone, who thru their ignorance of the law, became illegal?

hahahaha...yes. I would. First of all, who are these people who just "become" illegal? I mean, come on.

Second of all, I would like the best and the brightest (of the poor) of someone else's country living here. I don't know many "lazy" illegal immigrants. I've never known one who worked fewer than 10 hours a day, to be honest.

That is the kind of work ethic I value, as a Midwesterner. It is hard for me to say "no, we don't want those people" when they're working ten times harder than my neighbor, who invented something 20 years ago and now just sits by the pool writing conservative letters to the newspaper.

you really need to read up on some of those that are illegal up to 1/3 of those caught in illegal roundups have felony arrest warrents. murder, rape, etc.

once you do, then come back and see if your statement stands.

[ieldanth 0]

If someone wishes to come here and work, that is one thing. However, there should be delineated standards concerning what rights the state is willing to grant and a process by which the applicant can obtain permission to only come here and work. Anyone who comes here outside this process should be deported and banned from re-entry by any means. What we have now is little more than an invasion. Those in California are even demanding voting rights. If we are willing to enfranchise anyone who comes here, without even bothering with citizenship, then our government is subject to the whims of whatever nation can send sufficient numbers of people to affect an election.

[Aymerlu 3]

Yup! If legal immigrants need proper medicals, background checks and boatloads of paperwork, so should the rest!

ditto!