Can the West defeat the Islamist threat?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The guy isn't talking strictly about the terrorists though...

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

The guy isn't talking strictly about the terrorists though...

Like a parasite the extremists are using Islam to spread their influence. Like a cancer.

[Mirorgate 0]

REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, you've declared a jihad against the United States. Can you tell us why? And is the jihad directed against the US government or the United States' troops in Arabia? What about US civilians in Arabia or the people of the United States?

BIN LADIN: We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation of the Prophet's Night Travel Land (Palestine). And we believe the US is directly responsible for those who were killed in Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. The mention of the US reminds us before everything else of those innocent children who were dismembered, their heads and arms cut off in the recent explosion that took place in Qana (in Lebanon). This US government abandoned even humanitarian feelings by these hideous crimes. It transgressed all bounds and behaved in a way not witnessed before by any power or any imperialist power in the world. They should have been considerate that the qibla (Mecca) of the Muslims upheaves the emotion of the entire Muslim World. Due to its subordination to the Jews the arrogance and haughtiness of the US regime has reached, to the extent that they occupied the qibla of the Muslims (Arabia) who are more than a billion in the world today. For this and other acts of aggression and injustice, we have declared jihad against the US, because in our religion it is our duty to make jihad so that God's word is the one exalted to the heights and so that we drive the Americans away from all Muslim countries. As for what you asked whether jihad is directed against US soldiers, the civilians in the land of the Two Holy Places (Saudi Arabia, Mecca and Medina) or against the civilians in America, we have focused our declaration on striking at the soldiers in the country of The Two Holy Places. The country of the Two Holy Places has in our religion a peculiarity of its own over the other Muslim countries. In our religion, it is not permissible for any non-Muslim to stay in our country. Therefore, even though American civilians are not targeted in our plan, they must leave. We do not guarantee their safety, because we are in a society of more than a billion Muslims. A reaction might take place as a result of US government's hitting Muslim civilians and executing more than 600 thousand Muslim children in Iraq by preventing food and medicine from reaching them. So, the US is responsible for any reaction, because it extended its war against troops to civilians. This is what we say. As for what you asked regarding the American people, they are not exonerated from responsibility, because they chose this government and voted for it despite their knowledge of its crimes in Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq and in other places and its support of its agent regimes who filled our prisons with our best children and scholars. We ask that may God release them.

REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, will the end of the United States' presence in Saudi Arabia, their withdrawal, will that end your call for jihad against the United States and against the US ?

BIN LADIN: The cause of the reaction must be sought and the act that has triggered this reaction must be eliminated. The reaction came as a result of the US aggressive policy towards the entire Muslim world and not just towards the Arabian peninsula. So if the cause that has called for this act comes to an end, this act, in turn, will come to an end. So, the driving-away jihad against the US does not stop with its withdrawal from the Arabian peninsula, but rather it must desist from aggressive intervention against Muslims in the whole world.

bolded part by me.

So.... who defines "agressive interventiona AGAINST" them who state that posting cartoons is agression? or us, defending corporate interests overseas and not necessarily in the ME either (south east asia comes to mind some)? As to that whole part.. what they really want is to drive Israel into the ocean or exterminate them all there without the constant threat of US intervention either politically/monitarily/or militarily.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The guy isn't talking strictly about the terrorists though...

Like a parasite the extremists are using Islam to spread their influence. Like a cancer.

He disagrees with that assessment also.

As I said, this is an example of traditional liberalism, that despite accusations of "liberal media" has actually been repressed in favour of multi-culturalism and political correctness.

[mawilson 2,133]

is incorrect, according to a discussion i had in the mena forum. as it is part of the islam belief that everyone is born a muslim, you "revert" instead of convert.........

In their dreams.

[Mirorgate 0]

The guy isn't talking strictly about the terrorists though...

Like a parasite the extremists are using Islam to spread their influence. Like a cancer.

He disagrees with that assessment also.

As I said, this is an example of traditional liberalism, that despite accusations of "liberal media" has actually been repressed in favour of multi-culturalism and political correctness.

ahh.... to of the worst banes of human advancement ever. multi-culti wouldnt be so bad if viewed as different but equal.. instead of different but better.

[almaty 19]

The guy isn't talking strictly about the terrorists though...

Like a parasite the extremists are using Islam to spread their influence. Like a cancer.

He disagrees with that assessment also.

As I said, this is an example of traditional liberalism, that despite accusations of "liberal media" has actually been repressed in favour of multi-culturalism and political correctness.

ahh.... to of the worst banes of human advancement ever. multi-culti wouldnt be so bad if viewed as different but equal.. instead of different but better.

bro mirror, i have total agreement on that statement

[Ban Hammer 12,829]

is incorrect, according to a discussion i had in the mena forum. as it is part of the islam belief that everyone is born a muslim, you "revert" instead of convert.........

In their dreams.

all the pope needs to do is say everyone is a catholic at conception

[one...two...tree 2,762]

is incorrect, according to a discussion i had in the mena forum. as it is part of the islam belief that everyone is born a muslim, you "revert" instead of convert.........

In their dreams.

all the pope needs to do is say everyone is a catholic at conception

He does - the word 'catholic' means universal and the Pope regards everyone as God's people.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

The guy isn't talking strictly about the terrorists though...

But that is the part so difficult to comprehend because he does not offer your typical perspective but tries to historicize instead. If you read through this thread (and through countless others), any assessment of the so-called war on terror, which is in effect portrayed as a war against Islam, pointing to the complexity of the situation is shot down either as "liberal," "defeatist" or with a simple dismissal that whatever happened in the past has no bearing on the future. Of course, we're conditioned to think that way because otherwise we would make a much less willing populace for a war.

Sorry, I'd like to say more but I have a meeting now.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The guy isn't talking strictly about the terrorists though...

But that is the part so difficult to comprehend because he does not offer your typical perspective but tries to historicize instead. If you read through this thread (and through countless others), any assessment of the so-called war on terror, which is in effect portrayed as a war against Islam, pointing to the complexity of the situation is shot down either as "liberal," "defeatist" or with a simple dismissal that whatever happened in the past has no bearing on the future. Of course, we're conditioned to think that way because otherwise we would make a much less willing populace for a war.

Sorry, I'd like to say more but I have a meeting now.

True enough. In the context of the article, suggesting that the 'reasons don't matter' amounts to defeatism, because it offers nothing new than has gone before, except to justify the failures of the past. That's deceptively obvious, but a truth nonetheless.

[incanada1234 0]

You tried to understand what exactly? Why Islam has been declared the new enemy without knowing what Islam is?

What is it exactly that you don't know about islam? Maybe I can help you. It's always odd to me that seemingly intelligent people can't seem to grasp that islam is an evil religion full of hatred. Read the koran and see if that helps.

You tried to understand what exactly? Why Islam has been declared the new enemy without knowing what Islam is? Or why the "Muslim community gets their knickers in a twist?" I'm sick of the whole thing too, particularly of the whining on both sides because everyone feels like they have to make too many concessions. Funny thing is, I remember a time when Muslims were actually integrated successfully into Western societies by large numbers, but that was before the whining started and before we rallied behind inefficient leaders who have themselves no clue whatsoever about the "war" they are undertaking because all they care about is their own little whiny interests (and no, I'm not just talking about Bush and his republican minions, but also politicians heading other countries in this world).

I don't mean to be rude, but please don't waste your time arguing about this with me because I don't care.

The terrorists don't distinguish between people who hate Islam and people who don't. They don't care what you think about anything. They can't be reasoned with or bargained with, and no matter how many of them you kill there will still be more to take their place. I don't think there is anything that the United States can REALISTICALLY do to stop that. All we can do is try to protect ourselves.

I've heard the reasons why they're mad at us. And I don't care about those reasons anymore. My basic opinion these days is '###### 'em.'

Damn, a democrat that actually makes SENSE! Praise the Lord!

Why can't more of your kind be like you?

[Mirorgate 0]

Bad Zoot. Naughty Naught Naughty Zoot!

[incanada1234 0]

[Fischkoepfin 1]

You tried to understand what exactly? Why Islam has been declared the new enemy without knowing what Islam is?

What is it exactly that you don't know about islam? Maybe I can help you. It's always odd to me that seemingly intelligent people can't seem to grasp that islam is an evil religion full of hatred. Read the koran and see if that helps.

The question was in response to another poster, and in a way rhetorical. As much as I would like to take you up on your offer to teach me about Islam, I don't think there's much I can learn from you because you operate under the wrong presumptions to offer an unbiased assessment (see the second part of your statement).

I'm still convinced that Islam per se is not more evil than Christianity or any other religion reserving the right to make absolute truth claims. But that is probably just another statement marking me as a hopeless case of moral relativism.