Immigration: The United States v Canada

[sly_wolf 199]

And how does that vary from what I said. But thanks for the validation. Please try not to distort what I say. Your statement is a lot different than most "Canada Health Care lovers" that simply deny what I say. The Quebec lisence plates at Fletcher Allen are impossible not to notice. Simple fact, there are about 600,000 people in the entire state of Vermont and more than 2 million Canadians just over the border, closer to Fletcher Allen than most Vermonters, who do you think their business comes from? There is a 15% sales tax on everything in Quebec. 6% in Vermont and food and clothes and shoes are exempt. Who do you think is filling up the parking lots at the malls in Burlington and Plattsburgh? 600,000 Vermonters? Or 2 million Quebecois? Check the cost of plane flights to almost anywhere from Montreal Trudeau and Burlington International. You will see why BTV had to add a parking garage and makes all announcemnts in French and English. You will also see why Plattsburgh opened another international airport less than 40 miles from BTV. Need I mention the lines of cars from Quebec buying gasoline at border gas stations? How about the cost of a lift ticket at Mont Tremblanc vs. Jay Peak? It is all good for our economy and I never complain. These high costs in Canada of alomost anything are all related to taxes for health care. whether they know it or not, Canadians do all they can to avoid the COST of their system by using services in the USA.

What I said about the "vast majority of Canadians" is that they live within easy driving distance of the USA, and that is exactly true. The US medical system is a safety valve for Canada. Were it not for the fact that Canadians can come to the USA for medical care (faster, I never said "cheaper") All of those Canadians would be staying in Canada and getting (eventually) their MRIs in Canada at the expense of that system. The "Canadian Health Care System" you speak of is largely supplemented by the US health care system. The only reason a Quebecois can get a doctors appointment in the amount of time they is do because a lot of their fellow Quebecois are going to the US for care...or driving over to Ontario where the Province allows the doctors to make more money and hence, they have longer office hours. Many doctors work two days per week in Montreal and 3 days in Ottawa. Even at that, I can call my doctor this morning and get an appointment today. Try that in Canada.

The last time I had an MRI it was about $400 at Vermont Radiology. I was the only native English speaking patient in the lobby, the rest were Quebecois.

Disclaimer...any misspellings in any of the above negate all facts and improve the Canadian Health Care system.

The affluent will always be able to afford the best healthcare whether they live in Canada or the US. They can afford to pay for whatever they need and they do so in private clinics in Canada and of course in the US. Canada does also have a two tier healthcare system .... private for the wealthy and a public one for everyone else .... although politicians do not like to admit that. However at least in Canada you are still able to get healthcare for all including the less fortunate and average joe who may be employed or unemployed.

Edited May 23, 2011 by sly_wolf

[Zero Sum 305]

Just Bob... For those salaries, I'd live there. Then I'd get a solar plane with alternate fuel backup and spend weekends somewhere nice.

[웃 910]

...If they want to go to Canada they just buy a plane ticket as it is 100% legal to travel back and forth from Mexico to Canada...

The requirements for Mexicans to enter Canada legally are not significantly different than to enter the USA. They need an entry visa. If your talking about illegal entry, It's a bit harder to EWI at an airport, don't you think?

I guess I missed this one....

Canada imposes a visa on Mexico

Ottawa, July 13, 2009 — Beginning 12:01 a.m. EDT on July 14, 2009, Mexican nationals will require a visa to travel to Canada, Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism Minister Jason Kenney announced today

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

These high costs in Canada of alomost anything are all related to taxes for health care.

How can that be when government spending on health care per capita is less in Canada than in the US? And then we still spend a heck of a lot more on health care in the US via private insurance.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Just Bob... For those salaries, I'd live there. Then I'd get a solar plane with alternate fuel backup and spend weekends somewhere nice.

I would consider that cheating. Nope, you'll have to stay in Siberia, save for a 3-week vacation once a year. All you can do is build a castle and get top notch call girls flown in every week. Not a bad thing per se, but I'd miss the sunshine and activities outside the bedroom eventually.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The affluent will always be able to afford the best healthcare whether they live in Canada or the US. They can afford to pay for whatever they need and they do so in private clinics in Canada and of course in the US. Canada does also have a two tier healthcare system .... private for the wealthy and a public one for everyone else .... although politicians do not like to admit that. However at least in Canada you are still able to get healthcare for all including the less fortunate and average joe who may be employed or unemployed.

affluent people come to the US for health care. Including Canadian politicians. Wonder why they don't go to Canada?

Imagine how expensive Canada's system would be without the private system and if no one could come to the USA. In the USA we have medicaid to cover poor and unemployed

How can that be when government spending on health care per capita is less in Canada than in the US? And then we still spend a heck of a lot more on health care in the US via private insurance.

Link please. Canada has a 15% sales tax on top of everything else and you pay for health insurance when you register a vehicle. Show me where the government in canada spends less per capita than the USA.

[^_^ 5,021]

Link please. Canada has a 15% sales tax on top of everything else and you pay for health insurance when you register a vehicle. Show me where the government in canada spends less per capita than the USA.

This data is from 2007.

http://www.epi.org/economic_snapshots/entry/webfeatures_snapshots_20071205/

[The Dude 206]

I'm not disagreeing with that. I have no reason to doubt what you are saying about the relationship between Quebec and Vermont, but it can't be generalized to the relationship between the rest of Canada and the USA.

If someone from BC or Alberta goes to the US for medical care there are no provincial subsidies. They are paying 100% of the bill. I can guarantee you that's not a routine scenario for people in those provinces.

In Gary's world, anecdotes can be extrapolated to encompass an entire population. No need for verification or quantifiable data, Garylogic defies it all.

[Zero Sum 305]

I would consider that cheating. Nope, you'll have to stay in Siberia, save for a 3-week vacation once a year. All you can do is build a castle and get top notch call girls flown in every week. Not a bad thing per se, but I'd miss the sunshine and activities outside the bedroom eventually.

Its all in the Benjamins. I am sure some RUB member here probably wouldn't mind the time there to be honest.

Your proposal on limits would be simply retarded.

What $10-million-a-year person (other than a travelphobe) stays put?

But we digress. For the actual topic at hand, from what I have known of people from South of the Border going to Canada with legal resident visas, they have to stay in Canada X number of years before leaving for home. Some find it OK if they live somewhere nice. Others not so much.

[sly_wolf 199]

In the USA we have medicaid to cover poor and unemployed

Really! And why are there so many without any form of medical insurance in the US then? You would never hear stories like this in Canada either:

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=7767984

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Link please. Canada has a 15% sales tax on top of everything else and you pay for health insurance when you register a vehicle. Show me where the government in Canada spends less per capita than the USA.

Come on, you know how to look this stuff up.

Canada spent appr. $5,150.00 per capita in 2008 - 70% of that is funded by government. That's $3,600.00 per capita in terms of government expenditure. The US spent appr. $7,540.00 per capita in 2008 - roughly 50% of that is funded by government (the estimates are between 45 and 56%). At 50%, that's $3.770.00 per capita in terms of government expenditure. $3,600.00 < $ 3,770.00.

[sly_wolf 199]

Come on, you know how to look this stuff up.

Canada spent appr. $5,150.00 per capita in 2008 - 70% of that is funded by government. That's $3,600.00 per capita in terms of government expenditure. The US spent appr. $7,540.00 per capita in 2008 - roughly 50% of that is funded by government (the estimates are between 45 and 56%). At 50%, that's $3.770.00 per capita in terms of government expenditure. $3,600.00 < $ 3,770.00.

Yes, and we have not even covered the differences in the cost of getting an education in the US versus Canada.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Yes, and we have not even covered the differences in the cost of getting an education in the US versus Canada.

You're brutal.

[Dakine10 5,452]

affluent people come to the US for health care. Including Canadian politicians. Wonder why they don't go to Canada?

Imagine how expensive Canada's system would be without the private system and if no one could come to the USA. In the USA we have medicaid to cover poor and unemployed

Link please. Canada has a 15% sales tax on top of everything else and you pay for health insurance when you register a vehicle. Show me where the government in canada spends less per capita than the USA.

Canada doesn't have a 15% sales tax, Quebec does. Actually it's 13.5%.

Imagine how convincing your arguments might be if you could actually get your facts straight?

Edited May 24, 2011 by Dakine10

[scandal 951]

Canada doesn't have a 15% sales tax, Quebec does. Actually it's 13.5%.

Imagine how convincing your arguments might be if you could actually get your facts straight?

Ontario now has the 13% HST - a harmonized GST+PST.

As to facts, I rather liked this:

http://www.chspr.ubc.ca/node/210

Phantoms In The Snow: Canadians' Use Of Health Care Services In The United States.

Authors Katz SJ, Cardiff K, Pascali M, Barer ML, Evans RG

Source Health Affairs. 2002 May/June;21(3):19-31.

Abstract

To examine the extent to which Canadian residents seek medical care across the border, we collected data about Canadians' use of services from ambulatory care facilities and hospitals located in Michigan, New York State, and Washington State during 1994–1998. We also collected information from several Canadian sources, including the 1996 National Population Health Survey, the provincial Ministries of Health, and the Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association. Results from these sources do not support the widespread perception that Canadian residents seek care extensively in the United States. Indeed, the numbers found are so small as to be barely detectible relative to the use of care by Canadians at home.