No Easter Greeting from Obama, yet he has never missed A muslim greeting.

[wshc 46]

+1 Well said.

although, to the red, I'd say 'non-Christian' was a better term.

Excellent point. There are several non-Christian groups that are of course not anti-Christian. It is often political strategy to go for those votes, which is part of the game of running for President I suppose. I think if our Presidents could not run for a second term, after their election they could quit working for their party and just simply be President for everyone and not be in constant campaign mode, which btw. is not an exclusive characteristic of our current President.

but this is getting way off subject, sorry.

[wshc 46]

What ever happened to good ol' separation of church and state? Politics are run by the president and the political parties - what is run by God is a whole other matter, and largely a question of personal devotion and beliefs. Does he really need to give a laundry list of religions and God-figures in every speech and public address to satisfy the public? And, again, as has been established in this thread many many times already - he did not forget the Christians in his Easter greetings.

Obama is a God-believing man. Trying to turn him into anything else is just desperate attempts to grasp onto anything that can somehow be twisted into a "mistake by the Whitehouse". If he failed to acknowledge the Muslims in his speech, that would have been turned into something as well. If he acknowledges them too much, it is suspicious, since - after all - his middle name is Hussein.

And, I don't mean to insult anyone by this - but saying that the Christian religion is under constant attacks is like saying that the white male is being oppressed. If the Christian church is losing support, it most definitely is not because of something Obama said or did not say. You're right, wshc, the Lutheran church is losing support in Europe, at least in Scandinavia. I have my own opinions about why that is - but I can most certainly say that it is not because of Obama and the Whitehouse's holiday greetings.

Valid points - fyi - the unfair characterizations of Christians in this country is often so subtle that it often goes unnoticied by most people.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Aren't you asking for an entitlement from government, Danno? Something that smacks of identity politics you would attack if liberals were expecting to be singled out and acknowledged because of their affiliation with a particular group. You even alluded to it by complaining that Earth Day (a liberal notion) got a mention, but you didn't. And to count the words or measure the time given to another group over yours is certainly an entitlement tactic.

I know that I tire of how the celebration of Christmas in the media and the White House carries on for more than a month. That's no less than 30 days of acknowledgment. Ramadan, in contrast, lasts for 30 days, but only receives one iftar at the White House and barely an acknowledgement (if any) on Fox News. As far as attacks and persecution of faith, coverage of Islam is in no way balanced, so we can go head to head on that.

Sorry, I don't feel any empathy for your sense of entitlement. I advise you to learn to share the public stage, something we should have learned in kindergarden.

[Danno 1,228]

Aren't you asking for an entitlement from government, Danno? Something that smacks of identity politics you would attack if liberals were expecting to be singled out and acknowledged because of their affiliation with a particular group. You even alluded to it by complaining that Earth Day (a liberal notion) got a mention, but you didn't. And to count the words or measure the time given to another group over yours is certainly an entitlement tactic.

I know that I tire of how the celebration of Christmas in the media and the White House carries on for more than a month. That's no less than 30 days of acknowledgment. Ramadan, in contrast, lasts for 30 days, but only receives one iftar at the White House and barely an acknowledgement (if any) on Fox News. As far as attacks and persecution of faith, coverage of Islam is in no way balanced, so we can go head to head on that.

Sorry, I don't feel any empathy for your sense of entitlement. I advise you to learn to share the public stage, something we should have learned in kindergarden.

Nice try.... but it was all air-ball for you

-There are certain things people do have an "expectation" or entitlement to.....if you want to call it that, Honoring our military, lifting up the spirits of the nation when needed, carrying on national traditions (a proper Easter greeting being one).

-Since you brought it up, I havn't run the number but I bet if you took the Number of days the White House has spent on Christian Holidays vs Muslim holidays.... and factor in the Muslim Population Vs Christian .... you might find your dismay at the attention given Christmas is quite unfounded.

Christians are close to 80% Muslims are Less than 1%

You are actually getting way more attention than you deserve.

In fact, if it weren't for "some" Muslims trying to kill us, we would not have to go to such efforts to keep the whole "Religion of peace" theme going. I can barely recall such national attention B-4 the towers crumbled in NY.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Danno

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You call it tradition, but it's still an entitlement. Perhaps Ramadan receives more attention than our numbers deserve, but despite our numbers, we are disproportionately affluent and politically involved. Politicians love our money and few wish to ignore us. So, tradition can be bought and paid for. It's the American way.

Nice try.... but it was all air-ball for you

-There are certain things people do have an "expectation" or entitlement to.....if you want to call it that, Honoring our military, lifting up the spirits of the nation when needed, carrying on national traditions (a proper Easter greeting being one).

-Since you brought it up, I havn't run the number but I bet if you took the Number of days the White House has spent on Christian Holidays vs Muslim holidays.... and factor in the Muslim Population Vs Christian .... you might find your dismay at the attention given Christmas is quite unfounded.

Christians are close to 80% Muslims are Less than 1%

You are actually getting way more attention than you deserve.

In fact, if it weren't for "some" Muslims trying to kill us, we would not have to go to such efforts to keep the whole "Religion of peace" theme going. I can barely recall such national attention B-4 the towers crumbled in NY.

[wshc 46]

Aren't you asking for an entitlement from government, Danno? Something that smacks of identity politics you would attack if liberals were expecting to be singled out and acknowledged because of their affiliation with a particular group. You even alluded to it by complaining that Earth Day (a liberal notion) got a mention, but you didn't. And to count the words or measure the time given to another group over yours is certainly an entitlement tactic.

I know that I tire of how the celebration of Christmas in the media and the White House carries on for more than a month. That's no less than 30 days of acknowledgment. Ramadan, in contrast, lasts for 30 days, but only receives one iftar at the White House and barely an acknowledgement (if any) on Fox News. As far as attacks and persecution of faith, coverage of Islam is in no way balanced, so we can go head to head on that.

Sorry, I don't feel any empathy for your sense of entitlement. I advise you to learn to share the public stage, something we should have learned in kindergarden.

Christians are not looking for an entitlement in this case, but maybe some recognition on the Holiest of Christian Days that the USA was founded on a Christian foundation and is still a primarily Christian nation. All other religions should be thankful of that because as Christians there is an institutionally strong tolerance of other religions and a societal intolerance of people not tolerant of other religions. (Don’t think the intolerant people you hear and read about on the internet and in the news are representative of the silent majority in this country. Americans are a good and tolerant people.) Can you say the same about most other countries in the world and particularly the Middle East? There is a serious lack of Religious intolerance in Turkey and Syria for example.

Btw... I find the little picture by your name very offensive. How many Americans have died in defense of the freedom Muslims deserve? How many of those American GI’s that died for Muslims were Christians? I would think that if you do have the intelligence to participate in a forum such as this you would see the insult in your selection of avatar. America stands up for freedom and liberty throughout the world, often to the criticism of unappreciative people. But Americans still persist in what some call the naive desire to help the people of the world regardless of religious affiliation be free. A lot of Americans that believe in that concept and support that concept are Christians, even when that concept is used to help Muslims and Muslim countries. (Kuwait and Desert Storm is an example if case you need one.)

Edited April 26, 2011 by wshc

[Vi-Jay 218]

All other religions should be thankful of that because as Christians there is an institutionally strong tolerance of other religions and a societal intolerance of people not tolerant of other religions.

200 years of Crusades < informative link

Americans are a good and tolerant people.)

BUT!!

Btw... I find the little picture by your name very offensive.

I would think that if you do have the intelligence to participate in a forum such as this you would see the insult in your selection of avatar.

SO GODDAMNIT!!! CHANGE YOUR FCKING AVATAR!!!

America stands up for freedom and liberty throughout the world, often to the criticism of unappreciative people. But Americans still persist in what some call the naive desire to help the people of the world regardless of religious affiliation be free. A lot of Americans that believe in that concept and support that concept are Christians, even when that concept is used to help Muslims and Muslim countries. (Kuwait and Desert Storm is an example if case you need one.)

Yeah see, we are gonna do it my way see, so listen up you dirty rat! We are gonna tell them coppers we are Christians see, naive Christians see, just helpin the world see,and then we are gonna go over there and take that oil see, help our legit operations like Haliburton see, make it all look, religous and righteuos see, yeah yeah, that's the way we are gonna do it see.

Desert Storm was about freeing the muslim world?

Edited April 26, 2011 by Vi-Jay

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Christians are not looking for an entitlement in this case, but maybe some recognition on the Holiest of Christian Days that the USA was founded on a Christian foundation and is still a primarily Christian nation.

How can that be? The US is the only nation with Christian roots that does not properly observe the holiest day. People are made to go to work. I can understand that essential services - hospitals, first responders, FAA, etc. - need to be available even on this day. But Walmart, grocery chains and other retailers? Really? Is this how Christian we are as a nation? Shop 'til you drop oN Easter? That's where the religous nuts should be protesting. But no, that's alright. No problem with that at all.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Mr. Big Dog

[Zero Sum 305]

A rational reader would have a problem with a bigot establishing the 'deserving' level of any given religion in terms of attention from the government.

Perhaps proper current events might have somehing to do with it.

[Little_My 463]

I tend to side with Vi-Jay on this one.. If we are going into a pissing contest about which religion has caused the most damage in this world, I think the Christians are a pretty safe bet for winning place.. Or, I will correct that. It is not that Christianity per se has caused damage - it is people claiming to act in the name of a Christian God that have caused the damage.

Let's be honest here, what has been happening in the Middle East since the early 2000's has not been about bringing freedom and liberty to the Muslim world. "Installing democracy" and "enforcing freedom" are some of the best examples of oxymorons ever.

But - getting way off topic here. This was about Easter greetings.

[wshc 46]

How can that be? The US is the only nation with Christian roots that does not properly observe the holiest day. People are made to go to work. I can understand that essential services - hospitals, first responders, FAA, etc. - need to be available even on this day. But Walmart, grocery chains and other retailers? Really? Is this how Christian we are as a nation? Shop 'til you drop oN Easter? That's where the religous nuts should be protesting. But no, that's alright. No problem with that at all.

I am in %100 agreement with on your well-made point. I remember a time in America when it was not 24/7. Families did do things together on Sunday's. My last 20 years in Germany I have seen the progression towards stores opening on Sunday's and thankfully the influential Churches have been opposed to it. I think it is a Pandora’s Box. Once stores start being open on Sunday then 24/7 is soon to follow. And at who’s expense, the workers and their families. Although they will say that working on Sunday is voluntary, anyone that has ever worked at a retail store knows that’s not true.

I don't know how most religious people (nuts as you call them) feel about stores being open on Sunday, but I don’t think it is right imho.

[wshc 46]

I tend to side with Vi-Jay on this one.. If we are going into a pissing contest about which religion has caused the most damage in this world, I think the Christians are a pretty safe bet for winning place.. Or, I will correct that. It is not that Christianity per se has caused damage - it is people claiming to act in the name of a Christian God that have caused the damage.

Let's be honest here, what has been happening in the Middle East since the early 2000's has not been about bringing freedom and liberty to the Muslim world. "Installing democracy" and "enforcing freedom" are some of the best examples of oxymorons ever.

But - getting way off topic here. This was about Easter greetings.

Yes, getting way off topic. But I would expect an educated person not to fall in to the trap of falling back on the Crusades to say that Christians are trying to kill all Muslims. That is ancient history usually brought up in a discussion by someone with a lack of current common sense. As far as what has happened in the world since 1990, does the commitment of a huge amount of treasure and luckily not many lives by the US and coalition forces to free one Muslim Country from an invasion by another country not mean anything? Kosovo? Again the US and allies assisting a minority Muslim population. Bosnia? We still have troops there. And Iraq. Yes, it was all for oil? What a foolish thought. We will never be able to repay the debt caused by the Iraq war simply from the oil revenue Iraq will produce. It is trendy on the news to report that the Iraqis hate the US more than ever. Do they really? How about an intelligent conversation about Iraq and the enduring results of that war. Did democracy in Iraq make it seem possible to other middle eastern countries now? Is that what is happening there now?

Just a few questions - but sorry way off topic, so I will say no more on this thread about this topic.

[Vi-Jay 218]

Today 70% of all refugees in the world are Muslims. In Muslim mind many of this refugees and other conflicts are a result of their powerlessness.

Muslims feel culturally enslaved, in many ways to the predominantly Christian West. The United States, with the new geopolitical reality of uni-polar world, continues to dictate policies to smaller nations of the world.

This new form of colonialism is done with the help of local lackeys in Muslim countries who take their orders about how their countries should be run from Washington, D.C. as opposed to locally.

On a larger level, British, French, American and Russian colonial powers (all Western, and all predominantly Christian) also control Muslim and other Third World countries through international institutions like the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund (IMF), and the United Nations. These three organizations have an extraordinary influence on world affairs.

This excessive power over the lives of millions is perceived by a number of Muslims as the continuing perpetuation of the colonial era. For most Muslims, colonialism is not about the spread of "refined European civilization". It is about massacre, slavery, and weakness. It is nothing to proudly look back upon.

and,

The Western obsession with Islamic "Fundamentalism" provides a third example of the tense current Muslim-Christian relationship can be.

Virtually any form of Muslim worship, but especially the daily prayer, one of the five pillars of Islam, is shown on TV while talking about fundamentalism and fanaticism. A purely Christian term from America is being applied in any Muslim, organization, or country which opposes America.

From a "Times" article;

Angry Jordan Arabs Demonstrate Against Bush as Another Crusader : Mideast: Worshipers respond 'Death to America!' as an Islamic clergyman recalls Richard the Lion-Hearted.

August 11, 1990|DANIEL WILLIAMS | TIMES STAFF WRITER

last 2 paragraphs;

A need to repel Western-Christian incursions was the point of the reference made to the Crusades, in which European kings tried to take control of Jerusalem from the Muslims.

Mohammed Sherif, editor of the newspaper Dustour in Amman, said: "Arabia carried the torch of Islam to the unbelievers. Think of how the average Muslim will view the coming of this army to invade an Arab nation. It evokes deep feelings."

Do I need to continue or enuf said?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Sorry, I'm not changing my avatar. And, yes, the Crusades and any other history of oppression done in the name of Christianity is fair game to throw back at anyone spouting the company line about how benevolent Christianity is toward lowly non-Christians. In my own not so ancient lifetime there are instances of Christian barbarity. You can't just take credit for the good and dismiss the bad. Plus, if the Crusades is ancient history, therefore irrelevant, than what's stopping the life and teachings of Jesus from being dismissed in the same way as ancient history? Following that logic, not much.

[Zero Sum 305]

Yes, getting way off topic. But I would expect an educated person not to fall in to the trap of falling back on the Crusades to say that Christians are trying to kill all Muslims. That is ancient history usually brought up in a discussion by someone with a lack of current common sense. As far as what has happened in the world since 1990, does the commitment of a huge amount of treasure and luckily not many lives by the US and coalition forces to free one Muslim Country from an invasion by another country not mean anything? Kosovo? Again the US and allies assisting a minority Muslim population. Bosnia? We still have troops there. And Iraq. Yes, it was all for oil? What a foolish thought. We will never be able to repay the debt caused by the Iraq war simply from the oil revenue Iraq will produce. It is trendy on the news to report that the Iraqis hate the US more than ever. Do they really? How about an intelligent conversation about Iraq and the enduring results of that war. Did democracy in Iraq make it seem possible to other middle eastern countries now? Is that what is happening there now?

Just a few questions - but sorry way off topic, so I will say no more on this thread about this topic.

I understand these questions are ott, but the are excellent ones as long as you only consider the paradigm of religion as a motivating factor for armed conflict and engagement. Reality is a bit different, though, considering other factors such as the greed of corporate structures that have exponentially seen profits rise as our debt did the same; humanitarian concerns, etc.