Has anyone ever thought about how selfish Christianity is?

[tiffmal 6]

Seems you have issues past salvation.

Let me try again.

YOu have a free ticket to fly anywhere in the world you want..... how likely is it you are going to still pay for it?

I don't mean to trivialize these issues but, your'e desire to downgrade the good works people do .......might be make more sense if go at it from the angle of:

CHristians do all this good work out of guilt, trying to repay God.

So its more like if I refer a friend to Verizon Wireless I can get a $20 credit on my account but so can my friend.

Edited November 9, 2010 by tiffmal

[Jenn! 918]

So you are saying that a fair amount of religious people would turn evil if they found out that Hell/Heaven did not exist? Maybe just me, but I don't think it would change a damn thing.

I don't steal or lie because it is wrong to do that. Not because I think I am avoiding going to Hell.

Matter of fact it would be the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what you said. You would instantly have peace in the middle east. Terrorists/Jihadists would no longer exist. So much prejudice and hate would INSTANTLY disappear. I only dream that the day comes!

I don't know. Generally speaking, people's religiosity is so integral to who they are, who knows what would happen if you took religion out of the equation entirely.

I think bad people would remain bad if you took religion away. I think religion is the only thing keeping some people good, so I wouldn't want to take it away from them. Therefore, I see the net effect of religion as a positive.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Religion is like locks...

Sure it makes you feel better and more secure but in the end it really doesn't do anything but protect your from the honest people in the world.

[luckytxn 2,263]

Looks like we have another post ####### aboard.

[Danno 1,228]

I don't know. Generally speaking, people's religiosity is so integral to who they are, who knows what would happen if you took religion out of the equation entirely.

Actually, we do know.... have you not considered the endless millions executed or worked to death under communism?

Atheism was the policy of the Communist Gov't.... and killing on unknown scale took place.

When you accept human life is no more and flesh and blood, then you are able to place value on it.... or not.

[Jenn! 918]

Actually, we do know.... have you not considered the endless millions executed or worked to death under communism?

Atheism was the policy of the Communist Gov't.... and killing on unknown scale took place.

When you accept human life is no more and flesh and blood, then you are able to place value on it.... or not.

You can issue government policy on religion or lack thereof, but you can't control what people actually believe.

Are you trying to say that atheism has a monopoly on genocide?

[tiffmal 6]

Actually, we do know.... have you not considered the endless millions executed or worked to death under communism?

Atheism was the policy of the Communist Gov't.... and killing on unknown scale took place.

When you accept human life is no more and flesh and blood, then you are able to place value on it.... or not.

Yes but communism wasn't solely about taking away religion.

Looks like we have another post ####### aboard.

Who are the others?

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Actually, we do know.... have you not considered the endless millions executed or worked to death under communism?

Atheism was the policy of the Communist Gov't.... and killing on unknown scale took place.

When you accept human life is no more and flesh and blood, then you are able to place value on it.... or not.

Then on the other side of the fence there's the Crusades (all of them), The Inquisition and the destruction of the Knights Templar. So it seems that even Christians/Muslims/Jews/Otherwise Religious People don't always place such a high value on other people's lives!

[Danno 1,228]

Then on the other side of the fence there's the Crusades (all of them), The Inquisition and the destruction of the Knights Templar. So it seems that even Christians/Muslims/Jews/Otherwise Religious People don't always place such a high value on other people's lives!

While you do have a basic point, one could compare "numbers" and find what you accuse all of history of doing still pales what Communism racked up in the last century alone.

You are also including "defensive" actions in your count.......by some who may or may not have been motivated by faith.

Here is a CHurch which the Communist took over and turned into a Museum dedicated to the New State religion.

In 1876, the first political demonstration in Russia took place in front of the church. After the Russian Revolution of 1917, the cathedral was closed. In 1932, it was reopened as the pro-Marxist "Museum of the History of Religion and Atheism."[1] Services were resumed in 1992; and four years later the cathedral was returned to the Russian Orthodox Church. Now it is the mother cathedral of the metropolis of St. Petersburg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazan_Cathedral,_St._Petersburg

Edited November 9, 2010 by Danno

[Jenn! 918]

Seems strange to me to try to highlight the atrocities committed under communist regimes while deemphasizing the atrocities committed in the name of religion. Everyone has blood on their hands.

[Danno 1,228]

Seems strange to me to try to highlight the atrocities committed under communist regimes while deemphasizing the atrocities committed in the name of religion. Everyone has blood on their hands.

It's not "deemphasizing" it putting things in context.

That you compare outright murder in unknown numbers to wars to regain lands.. is strange to me.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

While you do have a basic point, one could compare "numbers" and find what you accuse all of history of doing still pales what Communism racked up in the last century alone.

You are also including "defensive" actions in your count.......by some who may or may not have been motivated by faith.

Which was defensive? European Knights & Armies traveling all the way to the Middle East to "re-take" it for Christianity?

Members of the Roman Catholic Church scouring the countryside to torture anyone who dared speak up?

Or The Pope signing an order to allow the European Kings to slaughter the Inventors of the modern banking system and plunder their hard earned wealth?

It's not "deemphasizing" it putting things in context.

That you compare outright murder in unknown numbers to wars to regain lands.. is strange to me.

What is the magic number that makes murder for idealogical reasons "outright murder"?

[Danno 1,228]

Which was defensive? European Knights & Armies traveling all the way to the Middle East to "re-take" it for Christianity?

Members of the Roman Catholic Church scouring the countryside to torture anyone who dared speak up?

Or The Pope signing an order to allow the European Kings to slaughter the Inventors of the modern banking system and plunder their hard earned wealth?

What is the magic number that makes murder for idealogical reasons "outright murder"?

The Crusades were a series of religiously sanctioned military campaigns waged by much of Roman Catholic Europe, particularly the Franks of France and the Holy Roman Empire. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291. Other campaigns in Spain and Eastern Europe continued into the 15th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

THe cruelty, murder and torment are well documented in history.. no one is downplaying the wrong done in those times but you can't spit out events which took place over centuries and act like it is all the same thing.

I wonder if I think your case would be much better made if you compare "THe scope" of innocent, non warfare deaths?

I dare ya.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

The cruelty, murder and torment are well documented in history.. no one is downplaying the wrong done in those times but you can't spit out events which took place over centuries and act like it is all the same thing.

Communism has existed for how long?

Killing in the name of God has been going on for far longer than Communism. The very fact that someone who professes to believe in God and value human life so much would so easily take-up arms in the name of God is less honest than a Communist Government killing those who oppose it. No I am not defending Communism.

When followers of a "God" take-up arms offensively (as the crusades was) to kill non-believers in the name of God then God becomes nothing more than a petty warlord.

That European Kings felt they had ownership claim over those who living in the region for centuries doesn't justify the campaign of violence.

That European Kings were afraid of the financial power of the Knights Templar and the Pope approved of their actions because he was afraid of them also doesn't justify the campaign of violence.

Christians & Jews defending themselves against attack is justified. When they go on a rampage in the name of God it isn't justified.

You can't pretend that it's trivial because it happened "so long ago".

All of this has happened before and it will all happen again.

Show me a single system of government that has the longevity of religious ideology. You can't because Jew-deism, Islam & Christianity all predate every modern form of government. Only a hypocrite kills in the name of God. If you want to be a murdering b@stard at least be honest and use your own name.

[웃 910]

I didn't know that Hitler killed millions in the name of Atheism

Edited November 9, 2010 by Lord Infamous