Arizona Immigration Laws

[Boiler 43,419]

The US does not want to have an ID system.

The US actually needs an ID system.

So the DL and SSN have become an ID system despite not being suitable or logical as an ID.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

The US does not want to have an ID system.

The US actually needs an ID system.

So the DL and SSN have become an ID system despite not being suitable or logical as an ID.

I don't want a National ID where it must legally be carried at all times, but I wouldn't mind retiring the SS cards for a proper National ID with the number on it. Make me carry it to a new employer, or to get my car registration renewed etc. but let me keep it in a lock box the rest of the time.

[Boiler 43,419]

In the UK you do not have to have your DL with you when driving, in the US you do. Try flying without ID.

I do not like that we have come to that, but too many mistakes have been made.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

In the UK you do not have to have your DL with you when driving, in the US you do. Try flying without ID.

I do not like that we have come to that, but too many mistakes have been made.

Yeah I liked that, you had what 48 hours to bring your license to the station? Of course I thought it was silly that the card wasn't the "complete" license and you had to have the paper counterpart.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Sousuke

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Brewer/Arpaio 2012!

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

They are stupid ands worthless. If Arizona REALLY wants to stop illegal immigration into Arizona they will pass a TAX that will wipe out any business, employer or homeowner that dares to hire an illegal alien. $500,000 per day per person ought to do it. Obama will love it...he loves taxes.

Why a tax? Because it is not a crime there is no court needed and you can seize property to pay tax. Hire an illegal to mow your lawn? LOSE YOUR HOUSE! Who do you think will do it? Which illegal immigrant will remain when no one will hire them?

No need for fences or for police to check IDs, just make it economical suicide to hire an illegal alien and NO ONE will do it. Make it economically bankrupt for an illegal to seek work in Arizona and no one will do it.

They ARE here for the $. Employers hire them to save $. FIX THAT and the problem evaporates. No deportation needed, they will WALK out.

Who gives a rat's @ss about ID? Stop the GRAVY TRAIN and all the illegals will jump off and RUN HOME

The Arizona cops' argument is that it's not their job to check the immigration status of a person. Some of them say they are not trained to do so. Now you want to put that burden on grandma, who wants to hire a gardener? You expect a 70 year-old woman to determine if Jose, her gardener, has a Green Card or a fake ID and in case she makes a mistake take her house away?

Are you serious?

Edited November 4, 2010 by Just Bob

[alienlovechild 75]

Pretty much the same as Gary. Its a waste of time. Even if people were apprehended, the Feds still have to process them and they don't have the resources. Because of the difficulty with determining illegal status when no ID is required outside of operating a vehicle, the law would have been costly in terms of lawsuits (as has been shown with 287G)

The Federal government might be stretched but they always manage to spend money it all and more anyway. What major government law doesn't attract lawsuits? Does that mean should have never passed healthcare reform because of widespread lawsuits?

We still 287G around and no lawsuit has provoked an injunction.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The Arizona cops' argument is that it's not their job to check the immigration status of a person. Some of them say they are not trained to do so. Now you want to put that burden on grandma, who wants to hire a gardener? You expect a 70 year-old woman to determine if Jose, her gardener, has a Green Card or a fake ID and in case she makes a mistake take her house away?

Are you serious?

Yes, I am serious.

Other people are NOT serious and really do not want to eliminate slave labor and avoidance of wage and hour laws. They piddle around with useless laws, silly fences, etc. all intended to make it "look" like they are doing something. Amnesty is just a conscription of new slaves to work for Republicans and a release of the old ones into government dependency and votes for Democrats

Edited November 5, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[Pooky 3,347]

AZ SB 1070 is a good law and the Federal government is/was badly mistaken in taking it to court. The law only seeks to allow State and local law enforcement to undertake duties abrogated by the relevant Federal bodies.

Anyone who thinks that penalties against businesses employing illegal aliens alone will solve the problem are sadly deluded. I agree that such action will be a major contributor to the resolving the situation, but on its own it will not accomplish the task.

We need penalties against the employers, we need to be able to identify, detain and deport illegal aliens and we need to secure the border. Any one part alone will not be enough. We need all of them in place and enforced.

And if the Federal government is unwilling to perform that duty, they need to allow State and local enforcement agencies to do so instead.

[웃 910]

U useless I teasless

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

The Federal government might be stretched but they always manage to spend money it all and more anyway. What major government law doesn't attract lawsuits? Does that mean should have never passed healthcare reform because of widespread lawsuits?

We still 287G around and no lawsuit has provoked an injunction.

I wasn't even refering to lawsuits over the law itself. Just the lawsuits raised by individuals during enforcement.

[TBoneTX 43,038]

A thought that occurred to me just today: Let's say that strong laws are passed to penalize employers & individuals for hiring illegals. Immigration law is complex enough even for us here on VJ, and the unwashed public have even less of a clue about green cards, EAD, lawful status, waivers, period of authorized stay, etc.

Accordingly, couldn't the strong laws cause employers to avoid hiring LEGAL immigrants, out of the employers' fear for their own skins? ("I don't understand this Immigration stuff, and I don't have time to study it or mess with it, and I'm not gonna risk my business or my home or my clean record, so I'm only gonna hire BORN AMERICANS, si man.")

Discuss, si man.

[Pooky 3,347]

A thought that occurred to me just today: Let's say that strong laws are passed to penalize employers & individuals for hiring illegals. Immigration law is complex enough even for us here on VJ, and the unwashed public have even less of a clue about green cards, EAD, lawful status, waivers, period of authorized stay, etc.

Accordingly, couldn't the strong laws cause employers to avoid hiring LEGAL immigrants, out of the employers' fear for their own skins? ("I don't understand this Immigration stuff, and I don't have time to study it or mess with it, and I'm not gonna risk my business or my home or my clean record, so I'm only gonna hire BORN AMERICANS, si man.")

Discuss, si man.

Mandatory E-Verify.

If there is no flag raised against the name of a potential employee, then an employer has carried out an agreed level of due diligence and is not liable.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

I don't want a National ID where it must legally be carried at all times, but I wouldn't mind retiring the SS cards for a proper National ID with the number on it. Make me carry it to a new employer, or to get my car registration renewed etc. but let me keep it in a lock box the rest of the time.

In a way, the US already has National-ID's which must be carried cent-percent of time--albeit it applies to noncitizens: GC (or EAD), or visa-papers.

And it has never been answered why the US cannot adapt (for NATURALISED citizens) a wallet-size certificate (instead of the letter-paper-sized one) which can be optionally carried (as is the case in Canada--where one does NOT need to carry papers at all times), and make application of such optional for by-birth citizens.

[K and L 27]

There already is a national wallet-sized form of proof of identity & citizenship: the $20 passport card that's pretty much only good for going to Canada and Mexico.