Religious Beliefs - Fact or Fiction

[Heracles 417]

The world and the animals in it are not perfect

How do you explain god creating in-growing toe nails ?

Animals and plants are far from perfect and it's that that proves they were not created

You are working on a false premise and it's all brought down by a toe nail.....

Yes, I did not suggest 100% pure and without any flaws, often a Straw man argument used against religion. No one is suggesting humans are brought down using storks from God.

It's funny to me how the notion of God is unfathomable to some, however, chance and mutation alone seems extremely logical; where the complexity of the world is basically due to mutations. Therefore, through mutations we developed hearts, lungs, kidneys, livers, blood, DNA, Toes, nails etc..

No one is going to convince the other otherwise, but logically I just don't buy it period.

[Captain Oates 910]

Two of the largest wars in human history - WWI and WWII - were not about religion.

The German soldiers argument is weak and similar to me slapping a sticker labeled liberal and then proceeding to chop all of the forests down. Though my armband might say liberal, my actions would actually contradict the liberal ideology.

Cold war about God, now that is a new one. War is about greed, power or simply disagreeing with one another - nothing else to it. The British did not colonize Australia because they wanted to convert the Aborigines.

I agree the world wars were not about religion, even with the 'Jewish problem' component.

However, both sides used their churches to spur men on to their deaths with the promise that it was god's will that they win.

I never mention Australia

Your idea that war is never about religion is simply not true and the first time I have ever heard anyone look back on history and say that. Religious genocide was the European way for centuries. What about the Jews burned to death in Clifford's Tower in York and all the thousands of other examples that happens purely because of religion.

What about Bosnia ?

Instead of war use the word 'conflict'

It's the religious people who have the blood of millions on their hands

Ask any Indian or Pakistani

[Peikko 1,575]

Looked at another much simpler way, telling someone that it is statistically impossible for the universe to have come about by accident is like telling the lottery winner that they could not have won because them winning was statistically unrealistic

Indeed humans asking why we came about is like asking a lottery winner why he won.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[mawilson 2,133]

The world is simply too complicated and perfect for mutations, let alone chance to have magically figured it all out.

The world is perfect?

[Peikko 1,575]

The world is perfect?

The world is perfectly what it is, if that helps

[Heracles 417]

Looked at another much simpler way, telling someone that it is statistically impossible for the universe to have come about by accident is like telling the lottery winner that they could not have won because them winning was statistically unrealistic

Indeed humans asking why we came about is like asking a lottery winner why he won.

Yes but this persons wins once, playing a game with limited numbers. What is the chance of them winning every lottery in the world for the next ten years? What is the chance of them stumbling across a ticket floating in the air and winning?

For evolution alone to make sense, all of the cards would have had to been in the right place at once. In other words, mathematically not possible. I am not saying evolution has not played a part, however, its impossible that so many jackpots to have been hit time and time again. Especially when the lottery ticket requires the customer pick one number out of a billion in every round - to win.

The world is perfect?

Of course it's perfect, I'm here after all.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Heracles

[Peikko 1,575]

Yes but this persons wins once, playing a game with limited numbers. What is the chance of them winning every lottery in the world for the next ten years? What is the chance of them stumbling across a ticket floating in the air and winning?

For evolution alone to make sense, all of the cards would have had to been in the right place at once. In other words, mathematically not possible. I am not saying evolution has not played a part, however, its impossible that so many jackpots to have been hit time and time again. Especially when the lottery ticket requires the customer pick one number out of a billion in every round - to win.

Of course it's perfect, I'm here after all.

No BY, you are looking at it backwards once again. The statistical probability of starting where we are now and recreating it are unfathomable, but the statistical probablity of us arriving here and now in the way we are is 100% certain. We are the lottery winners.

[Peikko 1,575]

I guess you have to understand that the perfect limitations of the elements and the ability of the elements to only combine in specific combinations has in fact reduced the improbability of us arriving where we are now - in other words, not everything is or ever was possible.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Captain Oates 910]

Do Dinosaur jockeys exist outside the USA ?

[Heracles 417]

No BY, you are looking at it backwards once again. The statistical probability of starting where we are now and recreating it are unfathomable, but the statistical probablity of us arriving here and now in the way we are is 100% certain. We are the lottery winners.

There is about as much proof of that as there is God, therefore, it basically comes down to faith. The it already happened so we must have simply bet the tredecillion to one odds argument does not fly, basically because there is no proof of it. Using our existence as proof is no different to using it to illustrate God. If the odds were low, we'd have found other planets by now, that would be at various stages of their creation from nothing.

For me, this is simply no argument and a waste of people's time, as it ultimately comes down to personal opinion; as do various aspects of science, economics and so forth. I follow religion for spiritual reasons. It's also why I don't have pissing-contests with people of other faiths. Most religions teach us things that expand us as a species, with drives beyond wealth and material #######.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Heracles

[Captain Oates 910]

There is about as much proof of that as there is God, therefore, it basically comes down to faith. The it already happened so we must have simply bet the tredecillion to one odds argument does not fly, basically because there is no proof of it. Using our existence as proof is no different to using it to illustrate God.

For me, this is simply no argument and a waste of people's time, as it ultimately comes down to personal opinion; as do various aspects of science, economics and so forth.

Nah it's just that the religious people only give in one fact at a time.

They had to give in about the earth going round the sun

Then the moon going round the earth

That the earth was not flat

They used to kill people horribly if they said the earth went round the sun..

Burn them alive

Slowly they relent - every few years - now the pope is saying there might be something to evolution AFTER the creation.

It's like getting a kid to admit he stole the sweets - it all comes out a bit at a time and all the churches are on the defensive

[Heracles 417]

Nah it's just that the religious people only give in one fact at a time.

They had to give in about the earth going round the sun

Then the moon going round the earth

That the earth was not flat

They used to kill people horribly if they said the earth went round the sun..

Burn them alive

Slowly they relent - every few years - now the pope is saying there might be something to evolution AFTER the creation.

It's like getting a kid to admit he stole the sweets - it all comes out a bit at a time and all the churches are on the defensive

Religion has nothing to do with science, so why would they have to give in anything?

[Peikko 1,575]

There is about as much proof of that as there is God, therefore, it basically comes down to faith. The it already happened so we must have simply bet the tredecillion to one odds argument does not fly, basically because there is no proof of it. Using our existence as proof is no different to using it to illustrate God. If the odds were low, we'd have found other planets by now, that would be at various stages of their creation from nothing.

For me, this is simply no argument and a waste of people's time, as it ultimately comes down to personal opinion; as do various aspects of science, economics and so forth. I follow religion for spiritual reasons. It's also why I don't have pissing-contests with people of other faiths.

Faith? You do not understand the science, but that is because you do not understand it, not because you lack the faith to understand it. The odds do not have to be low for what we have now to be the way it is, it only has to be the product of the random acts that occur that are limited in scope by the rules that nature imposes on that randomness and there are rules, and these rules produce patterns and symmetry and this pattern and symmetry precludes the possibility of omnipotence.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Religion has nothing to do with science, so why would they have to give in anything?

you're right, they don't.

religious people have faith & thats all they need. non religious & anti-religion people can throw scientific facts & their own theories out all day. it doesn't change the one fact that matters. you can't successfully question or challenge another's faith. its what they believe & thats the end of it period.

now if they find 'the missing link' on 'noah's ark' shipwrecked infront of the entrance to 'jannah' or 'nirvana' everybodies gonna look like a dumbass.

[Ban Hammer 12,835]

Of course it's perfect, I'm here after all.

touche!