If He Could, Bin Laden Would Bomb the Cordoba Initiative

[^_^ 5,021]

No kidding, what an empty, stupid threat.

From an empty, stupid, shell of a personal attack deleted.

[Captain Oates 910]

No kidding, what an empty, stupid threat.

What a silly comment..

From an empty, stupid, shell of a personal attack deleted.

wash your mouth out with soap

we don't need personal attacks or swearing on these forums

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Actually, stoning comes from the Talmud, Jewish law. It's not in the Quran.

Very few places practice any of the practices you mentioned, not all who practice them are Muslim, and not everything that is deemed to be from Islam is. Most are cultural practices that are improperly justified as Islamic.

Yet who is known for stoning today? I don't care what either book says. Jews are not stoning people and you-know-who are. Ignoring the truth doesn't mean it's not true.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=active&q=muslim+stoning&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=muslim+stoning&gs_rfai=&fp=b3b85bf72f367a5b

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Yet who is known for stoning today? I don't care what either book says. Jews are not stoning people and you-know-who are. Ignoring the truth doesn't mean it's not true.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=active&q=muslim+stoning&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=muslim+stoning&gs_rfai=&fp=b3b85bf72f367a5b

There are more than one billion Muslims in the world. How many of those do you ASSume have stoned anyone, know anyone who has stoned anyone, or condone stoning?

[Captain Oates 910]

There are more than one billion Muslims in the world. How many of those do you ASSume have stoned anyone, know anyone who has stoned anyone, or condone stoning?

Sofiyya I think we have got off on the wrong foot here and I know you are equipped to talk this through.

You have the central plank of knowing that MOST Muslim don't desecrate young girls and stone and cut hands off so you don't need to be defensive. By seeming to avoid identifying those cultures who do, almost to the point of denying that it happens, you appear to condone or refuse to condemn those who do it and these actions

If you did that, you would be doing the great majority of Muslims a favour

Why can't you say that cutting hands and noses and ears off is wrong and you strongly condemn and disown anyone who does it in your religion or any religion or a non-religious person and in ANY country ?

That would be a great start in clearing your position up so there was no equivocation about how you think. Your reticence just makes people suspicious when perhaps they need not be.

Edited August 5, 2010 by saywhat

[^_^ 5,021]

Sofiyya I think we have got off on the wrong foot here and I know you are equipped to talk this through.

You have the central plank of knowing that MOST Muslim don't desecrate young girls and stone and cut hands off so you don't need to be defensive. By seeming to avoid identifying those cultures who do, almost to the point of denying that it happens, you appear to condone or refuse to condemn those who do it and these actions

If you did that, you would be doing the great majority of Muslims a favour

Why can't you say that cutting hands and noses and ears off is wrong and you strongly condemn and disown anyone who does it in your religion or any religion or a non-religious person and in ANY country ?

That would be a great start in clearing your position up so there was no equivocation about how you think. Your reticence just makes people suspicious when perhaps they need not be.

Her 'reticence' (as you call it) only makes the bigots suspicious.

Most of us know she is no way responsible for the conduct of others. She is under no obligation to support them or condemn them.

This whole line of questioning is nothing more than a technique to defame Islam by association. If she condemns FGM, she's implicitly accepting a linkage between it and Islam. Don't you see that?

[sandinista! 1,816]

Yet who is known for stoning today? I don't care what either book says. Jews are not stoning people and you-know-who are. Ignoring the truth doesn't mean it's not true.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=active&q=muslim+stoning&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=muslim+stoning&gs_rfai=&fp=b3b85bf72f367a5b

when i read about men throwing rocks and chairs at women who dare to pray at the wrong spot in jerusalem, i'm a smart enough person to realize it's got ** all to do with judaism, and i don't hold it against any jew but the ones throwing shite. same as i don't hold it against every jew when i read about certain jewish settlers throwing rocks at palestinian 1st graders walking to school, or jewish settlers throwing rocks at people driving on the sabbath. they're certainly the only people around "known for doing that shite". but it's got nothing to do with anyone else not doing it. it's not ignoring the truth, it's refraining from being an ignorant, bigoted t w a t.

Edited August 5, 2010 by sandinista!

[sandinista! 1,816]

Her 'reticence' (as you call it) only makes the bigots suspicious.

Most of us know she is no way responsible for the conduct of others. She is under no obligation to support them or condemn them.

This whole line of questioning is nothing more than a technique to defame Islam by association. If she condemns FGM, she's implicitly accepting a linkage between it and Islam. Don't you see that?

that, and maybe she's just sick of having to explain this shite ad freaking nauseam every 2 weeks that one of these retards pop up in off topic with the same lines, over and over and over. same shite, different day. it gets old.

[Captain Oates 910]

Her 'reticence' (as you call it) only makes the bigots suspicious.

Most of us know she is no way responsible for the conduct of others. She is under no obligation to support them or condemn them.

This whole line of questioning is nothing more than a technique to defame Islam by association. If she condemns FGM, she's implicitly accepting a linkage between it and Islam. Don't you see that?

So if she condems tying fireworks to a cat's tail she is admitting a connection between that and Islam ? No I don't think so. I would condemn anyone of any religion or non who do these things - and at the same time I would say that this religion or that does not have a monopoly on cruelty and quote other examples.

If there is a linkage between this cruelty and some obscure cult of Islam or false Islam, then say it honestly and in the open and then strongly make the point that it in no way taints the rest of Islam.

Until someone can do that, they already invite guilt by association (not by me) because people know it happens and some DO ascribe it to all Islam

I am actually trying to help the situation of the rest of Islam who don't do this stuff, but I am thwarted by all the paranoia and so the perception remains in the population that no part of the Islamic world will condemn it

You know what the perception is in the Western world already. I didn't create it. I am offering an opportunity to dispel it. Western perceptions can only be altered in the Western style which is full discussion and fact naming and honesty. Closing ranks and keeping it all hid will not work.

that, and maybe she's just sick of having to explain this shite ad freaking nauseam every 2 weeks that one of these retards pop up in off topic with the same lines, over and over and over. same shite, different day. it gets old.

Do you talk like that in front of your children ?

Drop the paranoia and try and understand the discussion

[Peikko 1,575]

Saywhat, I have a suggestion for you, leave the moderating to the moderators. You do not like the way someone posts, report them but this constant insistence that you alone possess the proper skills that are required to engage in debate is ridiculous. People have the right to post in whatever way they want to, if that rubs you up the wrong way then by all means seek guidance from the powers that be but quit pretending you have some influence over it. You do not.

[Captain Oates 910]

Saywhat, I have a suggestion for you, leave the moderating to the moderators. You do not like the way someone posts, report them but this constant insistence that you alone possess the proper skills that are required to engage in debate is ridiculous. People have the right to post in whatever way they want to, if that rubs you up the wrong way then by all means seek guidance from the powers that be but quit pretending you have some influence over it. You do not.

Can't you see the irony there ?

You tell me not to tell someone how to behave and then you are telling me !

To you, irony is like aluminy or coppery

If someone replies to one of my posts with a string of profanity and personal insults and name calling then I have the right to say I deplore that and I will not let YOU take that right away.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

that, and maybe she's just sick of having to explain this shite ad freaking nauseam every 2 weeks that one of these retards pop up in off topic with the same lines, over and over and over. same shite, different day. it gets old.

I am tired, incredibly tired of seeing and responding to threads like this and to hearing disparaging, hyperbolic remarks about my faith and co-religionists at every turn on radio and tv day after day. I'm tired of arguing with insta-scholars who demand I apologize for every bad deed any Muslim on earth has done in the past 1400 years, as if their ancestors have clean hands.

I laughed today when I heard a caller on a radio show complain about how Muslims overran Spain, murdering men, raping their women and killing their children. Conveniently, he brushed off the Inquisition as no big deal, and didn't think Europeans overrunning North America, killing Indians for their land in God's name was a problem "because, we don't do that anymore". It's difficult not to respond though, because the hypocrisy and ignorance is so rampant and outrageous, it's like a train wreck; you just wan tot help the survivers get better. Maybe I need my head examined

Her 'reticence' (as you call it) only makes the bigots suspicious.

Most of us know she is no way responsible for the conduct of others. She is under no obligation to support them or condemn them.

This whole line of questioning is nothing more than a technique to defame Islam by association. If she condemns FGM, she's implicitly accepting a linkage between it and Islam. Don't you see that?

I agree. And, that's why I hesitate to further involve myself, although I must give credit where credit where credit is due to all of you who have stood up to irrationality in my absense. I'm very grateful.

Sofiyya I think we have got off on the wrong foot here and I know you are equipped to talk this through.

You have the central plank of knowing that MOST Muslim don't desecrate young girls and stone and cut hands off so you don't need to be defensive. By seeming to avoid identifying those cultures who do, almost to the point of denying that it happens, you appear to condone or refuse to condemn those who do it and these actions

If you did that, you would be doing the great majority of Muslims a favour

Why can't you say that cutting hands and noses and ears off is wrong and you strongly condemn and disown anyone who does it in your religion or any religion or a non-religious person and in ANY country ?

That would be a great start in clearing your position up so there was no equivocation about how you think. Your reticence just makes people suspicious when perhaps they need not be.

I'm not defensive at all, Alan. I'm comfortable with the knowledge and experience I have that assists me in distinguishing between Islam and culture. If anything, I'm numbed by the insistance that I play by rules and employ a lexicon indulged by those who have the least credibility when it comes to a faith they misunderstand and obviously disrespect. There is more emotion emoted than reason to respond to, and I'm not so good dealing with emotion.

Most of the folks who have debated with you today have known me here for years. They know my position on many issues surrounding Islam, terrorism and doctrine. We don't always agree on everything, and have engaged in a good amount of sparing, but we come back because we can start over each time, without grudges, even if we don't forget. We can agree to disagree, and we can support each other when need be. AJ, in particular, is no Muslim lover, but he is a straight shooter and a humanitarian, despite his somewhat dry and cynical veneer.

Most of us enjoy a good debate, even one that eventually dissolves into jokes and other silliness. Let's try to do that in the future; it may not be on this thread.

Who's first with boobie pics? Ya know ya wanna.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Sofiyya

[Peikko 1,575]

Can't you see the irony there ?

You tell me not to tell someone how to behave and then you are telling me !

To you, irony is like aluminy or coppery

If someone replies to one of my posts with a string of profanity and personal insults and name calling then I have the right to say I deplore that and I will not let YOU take that right away.

Irony? I am not telling you what to do, I am giving you a suggestion that you either will or will not take on board. You demand that people post in a certain way, I am simply telling you that that is ridiculous because you have no influence over anyone but yourself. If I want to call you a wanker for my own reasons, I will go ahead and do just that and no amount of you telling me that you dislike it will change my mind as to whether or not I will do it.

[Captain Oates 910]

I am tired, incredibly tired of seeing and responding to threads like this and to hearing disparaging, hyperbolic remarks about my faith and co-religionists at every turn on radio and tv day after day. I'm tired of arguing with insta-scholars who demand I apologize for every bad deed any Muslim on earth has done in the past 1400 years, as if their ancestors have clean hands.

I laughed today when I heard a caller on a radio show complain about how Muslims overran Spain, murdering men, raping their women and killing their children. Conveniently, he brushed off the Inquisition as no big deal, and didn't think Europeans overrunning North America, killing Indians for their land in God's name was a problem "because, we don't do that anymore". It's difficult not to respond though, because the hypocrisy and ignorance is so rampant and outrageous, it's like a train wreck; you just wan tot help the survivers get better. Maybe I need my head examined

I agree. And, that's why I hesitate to further involve myself, although I must give credit where credit where credit is due to all of you who have stood up to irrationality in my absense. I'm very grateful.

I'm not defensive at all, Alan. I'm comfortable with the knowledge and experience I have that assists me in distinguishing between Islam and culture. If anything, I'm numbed by the insistance that I play by rules and employ a lexicon indulged by those who have the least credibility when it comes to a faith they misunderstand and obviously disrespect. There is more emotion emoted than reason to respond to, and I'm not so good dealing with emotion.

Most of the folks who have debated with you today have known me here for years. They know my position on many issues surrounding Islam, terrorism and doctrine. We don't always agree on everything, and have engaged in a good amount of sparing, but we come back because we can start over each time, without grudges, even if we don't forget. We can agree to disagree, and we can support each other when need be. AJ, in particular, is no Muslim lover, but he is a straight shooter and a humanitarian, despite his somewhat dry and cynical veneer.

Most of us enjoy a good debate, even one that eventually dissolves into jokes and other silliness. Let's try to do that in the future; it may not be on this thread.

Who's first with boobie pics? Ya know ya wanna.

I give in. Although I am non-religious and wish all religion didn't exist, I in no way have it in for Islam and I genuinely wanted to get this brought out into the open, which, I believe, would have exonerated the greater portion of worldwide Islam

I can see that nobody is willing to have that discussion despite me trying to get the real and most likely pro-Islamic situation exposed, so I give in. The perception in the wider community remains as it is and that is a pity. If I was a Muslim I would fight in every forum to explain the facts on behalf of my religion rather than wrap myself in paranoia and take a back seat.

ok I give in.

[Captain Oates 910]

Irony? I am not telling you what to do, I am giving you a suggestion that you either will or will not take on board. You demand that people post in a certain way, I am simply telling you that that is ridiculous because you have no influence over anyone but yourself. If I want to call you a wanker for my own reasons, I will go ahead and do just that and no amount of you telling me that you dislike it will change my mind as to whether or not I will do it.

You reveal your true nature with that language

I reject your 'suggestion '

When I tell someone not to swear at me you object to me telling them

You don't tell people what to do - you 'suggest'.

Now get off my cloud and go annoy somebody who cares a jot about what you think

You will only call me a wxxnker once before I get your sorry post pulled for TOS violation - I know it won't be your first - you are a recidivist

Try and behave like a decent woman with a decent mouth on her would you ? (that's a suggestion)

Edited August 5, 2010 by saywhat