If He Could, Bin Laden Would Bomb the Cordoba Initiative

[chri'stina 190]

That's fair enough

If Sofiyya could speak so plainly then we might get somewhere.

Having been Church of England, Primitive Methodist, Baptist and non-religious and had a stack of Catholic girlfriends, I can confirm that Christians come in all sorts of varieties. I can also confirm that non of them are in favour of holding down young girls and mutilating their genitalia with a dirty knife, cutting off hands on prime time TV, stoning women to death etc etc

If a Christian sect or church engaged in that stuff, I would expect other christian churches to condemn it.

Instead, it is left to a non- believer (the fastest growing opinion sector in the US) to say it exists and it is wrong and it should be stopped, while the so called christians don't engage and are more interested in religious solidarity with anyone, no matter how cruel, in order to keep their tithe base and tax status intact

But I think your examples are of mostly westerner Christians. We don't know as much about religious people outside of our own culture unless we have been there or studied it.

"Female circumcision is not associated with any one religious group. It is practiced by Muslims, Christians, Jews and members of indigenous African religions.7 Some Sudanese believe that Islam supports female circumcision, although Muslim theologians state that there is no explicit support for the practice in the Koran.8" source

[Captain Oates 910]

But I think your examples are of mostly westerner Christians. We don't know as much about religious people outside of our own culture unless we have been there or studied it.

"Female circumcision is not associated with any one religious group. It is practiced by Muslims, Christians, Jews and members of indigenous African religions.7 Some Sudanese believe that Islam supports female circumcision, although Muslim theologians state that there is no explicit support for the practice in the Koran.8" source

I see you have left out one important group: non- believers

Such practices are virtually ALWAYS associated with religion. Whichever religion it is associated with, should speak out against it.

The only way one can be sure that some sect within their religion is not doing this stuff is to become non-religious

Declared atheists have no record of burning at the stake either. Atheistic preachers have not systematically abused children

I could go on but you get the drift. Anyone who takes the time to think through their personal values and to risk approbation and discrimination by declaring themselves a non- believer (in this country) is much more likely to have a moral base than people who profess a faith because they were born into it

For instance the US has 2.5 million people in prison. I bet you would be hard pressed to find one who wasn't religious.

Sofiyya and you were more than likely born into their faith via their parents - no thought process required.

Edited August 4, 2010 by saywhat

[chri'stina 190]

People don't have to prove that they have a thought process by not believing in something that they learned when young.

[Captain Oates 910]

People don't have to prove that they have a thought process by not believing in something that they learned when young.

Yes they do !

It's part of the growing process to look at everything and question it and validate it to your own satisfaction.

Some people were born into racist societies in the South and made their own minds up despite the views of their parents

They should apply this to their parent's religious views too

My mother claimed to be a christian. When I was 10, my best friend was a girl. A tomboy. Her father was imprisoned for doing incest with her sister. My mother told me I could not play out with my friend any more as we were a Christian family and didn't associate with families like that

That was my first practical experience of christianity in action and it has only got worse since. The only way that christianity can truly be practised (love, gentleness etc) is outside of religious belief as the religious people are just plain cruel

[chri'stina 190]

Yes they do !

It's part of the growing process to look at everything and question it and validate it to your own satisfaction.

I have done that and continue to, and that doesn't mean I had to reject things I learned when young. That is your own bias. I don't have to prove I have done that by not believing things I learned when young. I also learned when I was a child that the color of people's skin is not important, not to make fun of people who are different looking or disabled, and to be nice to people. I evaluated all of those ideas as well as I grew up, and didn't reject those thoughts either.

Your own negative experiences with Christianity shouldn't be put onto every other Christian. You are giving me a very negative experience with an atheist with the way you are talking down to me.

[chri'stina 190]

By the way my dad was born to racist Northerners and did not grow up racist. And thankfully my grandparents decided being racist was wrong in the late 70's, being influenced by their own children and beliefs. Otherwise my grandmother(grandfather dead) would not love my Indian husband so much.

[Captain Oates 910]

I have done that and continue to, and that doesn't mean I had to reject things I learned when young. That is your own bias. I don't have to prove I have done that by not believing things I learned when young. I also learned when I was a child that the color of people's skin is not important, not to make fun of people who are different looking or disabled, and to be nice to people. I evaluated all of those ideas as well as I grew up, and didn't reject those thoughts either.

Your own negative experiences with Christianity shouldn't be put onto every other Christian. You are giving me a very negative experience with an atheist with the way you are talking down to me.

Yes every Christian bears the responsibility for paedophile priests and burning at the stake etc etc - that is because you are so submissive to your religion that you don't treat these church leaders and people who have handed you your ideas and belief systems on a plate as just people. Fallible people. It's that lack of questioning that has allowed all this stuff to happen.

They even call you their 'flock'... they see you as a sheep to be tithed and you think I am talking down to you ?

People who have come to non belief through painstaking thought are among the best moral people you will EVER meet.

Religious people who allow the accident of their birth country to dictate their beliefs are what their leaders describe them as - sheep

If you had been born in Saudi, you would be a Muslim right now - do you acknowledge that ? Would you have thought it through on your own and decided to become a christian ? NO you would not. You are a believer so believe me you would be a Muslim if you had been born in Saudi

Your faith is not a result of your own search for the way - it is a result mainly of the accident of your birth place

Edited August 4, 2010 by saywhat

[chri'stina 190]

Yes every Christian bears the responsibility for paedophile priests and burning at the stake etc etc - that is because you are so submissive to your religion that you don't treat these church leaders and people who have handed you your ideas and belief systems on a plate as just people. Fallible people. It's that lack of questioning that has allowed all this stuff to happen.

They even call you their 'flock'... they see you as a sheep to be tithed and you think I am talking down to you ?

People who have come to non belief through painstaking thought are among the best moral people you will EVER meet.

Religious people who allow the accident of their birth country to dictate their beliefs are what their leaders describe them as - sheep

If you had been born in Saudi, you would be a Muslim right now - do you acknowledge that ? Would you have thought it through on your own and decided to become a christian ? NO you would not. You are a believer so believe me you would be a Muslim if you had been born in Saudi

Your faith is not a result of your own search for the way - it is a result mainly of the accident of your birth place

My husband was born Hindu and became a Christian later in life.

Your assumptions are not 100% correct.

[Captain Oates 910]

My husband was born Hindu and became a Christian later in life.

Your assumptions are not 100% correct.

Nothing is 100% correct but the exception proves the rule.

What percentage of Montana's population think about things and then become Moslem ?

That's reality

How can you be born Hindu ? jeez he couldn't even speak !

[chri'stina 190]

Nothing is 100% correct but the exception proves the rule.

What percentage of Montana's population think about things and then become Moslem ?

That's reality

How can you be born Hindu ? jeez he couldn't even speak !

You know what I meant.

[^_^ 5,021]

nice.

[Captain Oates 910]

You know what I meant.

How to convert a Hindu to Christianity ?

http://bluelegends.sulekha.com/blog/post/2007/06/ten-ways-to-convert-a-hindu-shocking-insight-in-to.htm

I still maintain that anyone who is 'born into' a religion has a handicap when it comes to claiming that they thought through all the issues THEMSELVES and decided they were in the true religion.

I bet most American Christians AND Saudi Muslims fall into that category

The very obvious conclusion is that they are not clear minded original thinkers and in fact they were brainwashed into their particular religion by their parents.

Look at Salt Lake City - what a coincidence that all the kids growing up there have thought it through with full knowledge of the issues and have concluded that by some wonderful coincidence, they believe the same as their parents !

They receive brainwash before they receive mouthwash and that is why they believe the same

and of course Muslims who know about Christianity are going to hell according to the Christians - that's a big penalty for being born and raised in the wrong country

Not very caring and kind and gentle and meek...

[chri'stina 190]

nice.

entertained?

[Captain Oates 910]

I always laugh when the Christians say 'It's a good insurance policy because if I am wrong then I am just dead - but if I am right, I go to heaven'

They haven't thought that if the Muslims are right then the Christians are going to hell and only if the Christians are right, are you heaven bound.

Logically the answer would be to become a Christian and a Moslem to make sure you are heaven bound

A bit like dual citizenship

Edited August 4, 2010 by saywhat

[^_^ 5,021]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8daxCWO5ec0