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Yes Simpson, that must be it, I am discontent living in your great and noble nation. :rofl:

I stand by my statement. I think its actually very obvious.

No Simpson, Americans hear virtually nothing about the outside world beyond their own particular region. You only have to watch news broadcasts from different countries to see just how different the news is in America compared to well, just about any European nation. A typical news cast in the UK starts with National and international news. Local news is only broadcast after the local and national news and is given much less prominance. Here, the local news is virtually the entire broadcast and I have yet to hear of any foreign news on tv apart from the Haitian disaster or something similar. Foreign affairs is simply ignored entirely.

Simply not true. Order of operation is not important, the fact that the info is there for people to take in matters.

Suspects should be treated like suspects Simpson. You seem to be of the same mindset as the problem police, that because you believe that if you are a suspect you are a criminal and that you/the police have the right to treat criminals like filth. That is not how it is done elsewhere. Suspects are treated as suspects, that is people who are suspected of having committed a crime and the aim is to arrest the suspect and place them in custody as efficiently and safely as possible, both for the police and for the suspect.

My point went over your head. When being shot at the person doing the shooting is not a suspect. You kept using that word in a general way to make your argument seem more valid.

You are seeing things that are not there by the way. I am dissatisfied with how the police seem to conduct themselves in American society, but that does not necessarily mean that I am seething with anger or discontent, nor does it mean that because I believe that the police force need to re think their attitudes towards suspects and indeed towards civilians in general that means I wish them to ignore suspects and just let them wander around free - that's silly and a ridiculous conclusion to come to.

You have no statistics. You have not had problems with cops here in this great nation, yet violence makes the news and your conclusion is that cops in America are out of control. You do know that bad news brings in the numbers... right?

Edited by _Simpson_
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You are not very good at reading between the lines Simpson. I suspect you believe that as an immigrant I should be in awe of everything, good bad and indifferent, simply because I am an immigrant. Sorry, that's not how it works. I know there are bad things about all the places I have lived in, and there are good things as well. I am lucky, I have never lived anywhere that was universally horrible - in fact I have liked most things about all the places I have lived. However, if there is something I don't like about somewhere, I don't feel compelled to keep silent about it - I feel quite free to discuss the bad things as well.

Awe no, I just expect you to appreciate the things this great country has given you and not just piss and moan about all its downfalls.

Take Steven for example, its all about Republicans vs Dems for him but from his comments over the period of time I have been here at VJ I believe he is proud to be a american. Sorry but I just dont think you are.

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Your biggest problem is your discontent for this great nation.

We have plenty of access to news outlets be it local or national. The amount of people that choose to take advantage of that is another issue.

What we believe to be normal is that criminals be treated like criminals. People like you act like tasing in one step below shooting. :wacko:

I have lived in Germany but to young to remember. That aside I have spent a good amount of time in other countries and my experience has been that cops there are more corrupt.

Once again your anger/discontent is more aimed at the officers than the 'suspect'.

All that aside how do you feel about the verdict?

Actually, according to police procedures, tazing is one step below shooting. It is a physically painful experience that if not carried out properly can be lethal, that is why officers are required depending on their state and county to re-qualify to use it so many times.

You seem to be under the misconception that getting tazed is no big deal. You're wrong.

And your assesment that most cops abroad are more corrupt is baseless and all around, just rubbish conjecture, save for one country, N.Ireland.

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Then your wrong on both accounts, because I don't dislike you. I really don't dislike anyone in this forum. I think there are a few who say things in this forum for shock effect and don't actually mean it, but your not one of them.

I hope not but I have my doubts. I'm not looking to make enemies.

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Awe no, I just expect you to appreciate the things this great country has given you and not just piss and moan about all its downfalls.

Take Steven for example, its all about Republicans vs Dems for him but from his comments over the period of time I have been here at VJ I believe he is proud to be a american. Sorry but I just dont think you are.

I'm not an American Simpson, so why should I be 'proud' to be one, exactly?

As to the rest, I do not need to tell you anything about anything, let alone the particular things about my living situation that I appreciate, or the ones that I don't like.

However, I do feel perfectly free to make perfectly valid observations about the conduct of the police in the area I live in (because that's the news I hear most often) and the prevalence of violence by the police while making arrests. It is not something to be proud of Simpson, and if you are, that shows to me that you are ignorant of the fact that it is perfectly possible to make arrests in dangerous situations without shooting the suspects, even if you believe they might be armed - again, I have experience of living in a country that was torn by terrorism and the norm was not to have suspects shot at during arrest, it was a rarity (I can't recall an occasion when it happened but it might have) and civilians are never, ever shot while being arrested, nor manhandled unnecessarily, because it is unnecessary and in fact make the police person's job more dangerous than it needs to be.

Edited by Madame Cleo

Refusing to use the spellchick!

I have put you on ignore. No really, I have, but you are still ruining my enjoyment of this site. .

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Actually, according to police procedures, tazing is one step below shooting. It is a physically painful experience that if not carried out properly can be lethal, that is why officers are required depending on their state and county to re-qualify to use it so many times.

Maybe according to police procedures but as far as bodily harm thats a negitive. My point was pretty obvious but good try Rob. ;)

You seem to be under the misconception that getting tazed is no big deal. You're wrong.

You do know that cops get tased is part of there training? It is not as detrimental as most anti-cop loonies would make you believe.

And your assesment that most cops abroad are more corrupt is baseless and all around, just rubbish conjecture, save for one country, N.Ireland.

I said that was my experience. :yes: Do you have some statistics?

Edited by _Simpson_
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Remember this?

He was a terrorist suspect - but that was a terribly tragic event and yes, I remember it - but that is the only one you came across, isn't it?

Actually, according to police procedures, tazing is one step below shooting. It is a physically painful experience that if not carried out properly can be lethal, that is why officers are required depending on their state and county to re-qualify to use it so many times.

You seem to be under the misconception that getting tazed is no big deal. You're wrong.

And your assesment that most cops abroad are more corrupt is baseless and all around, just rubbish conjecture, save for one country, N.Ireland.

Cops in N.Ireland are not universally corrupt at all - not sure where you got that notion from. They didn't go around shooting suspects routinely either - although obviously the army did shoot a bunch of unarmed citizens on Bloody Sunday, but that's a different kettle of fish entirely.

Refusing to use the spellchick!

I have put you on ignore. No really, I have, but you are still ruining my enjoyment of this site. .

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I'm not an American Simpson, so why should I be 'proud' to be one, exactly?

Please do explain. You are using this great countries resources right?

As to the rest, I do not need to tell you anything about anything, let alone the particular things about my living situation that I appreciate, or the ones that I don't like.

Need is a subjective term, that said if you want to make your argument somewhat believable to the rest of thinking society you might want to start talking.

However, I do feel perfectly free to make perfectly valid observations about the conduct of the police in the area I live in (because that's the news I hear most often) and the prevalence of violence by the police while making arrests. It is not something to be proud of Simpson, and if you are, that shows to me that you are ignorant of the fact that it is perfectly possible to make arrests in dangerous situations without shooting the suspects, even if you believe they might be armed - again, I have experience of living in a country that was torn by terrorism and the norm was not to have suspects shot at during arrest, it was a rarity (I can't recall an occasion when it happened but it might have) and civilians are never, ever shot while being arrested, nor manhandled unnecessarily, because it is unnecessary and in fact make the police person's job more dangerous than it needs to be.

When you make make your valid observations can you please make sure that the thought process that follows will lead to a valid conclusion.

A cop defending the law and his safety trumps everything else. Often cops dont have the time to take a masters degree sort of approach towards a dangerous situation and they sometimes make mistakes.

Again, the news can easily give a misconception of reality, for example pre war protesters you would think that from watching the news alont the whole country was against the war but the reality was that the country supported this war.

Edited by _Simpson_
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Please do explain. You are using this great countries resources right?

Need is a subjective term, that said if you want to make your argument somewhat believable to the rest of thinking society you might want to start talking.

When you make make your valid observations can you please make sure that the thought process that follows will lead to a valid conclusion.

A cop defending the law and his safety trumps everything else. Often cops dont have the time to take a masters degree sort of approach towards a dangerous situation and they sometimes make mistakes.

Again, the news can easily give a misconception of reality, for example pre war protesters you would think that from watching the news alont the whole country was against the war but the reality was that the country supported this war.

.

You seem to have lost your mind Simpson, I am an immigrant, I live in the US, but I am not a US citizen so being proud to be an American is quite simply impossible.

Yes, the news is sensationalist in nature, I am perfectly aware of that, however, it is pretty difficult to miss the fact that in other European countries, and specifically the UK, suspects are not shot and killed during arrest no matter how threatened the police officers feel during that arrest, as I mentioned, despite the rowdy nature of drunken British yobs who frequently shout their mouths off at the police and throw punches, the police manage to arrest these miscreants without the uses of guns or tazers and very few UK police officers are injured during the arrest process. In other words, properly trained police can arrest mouthy/violent suspects without getting hurt or hurting the suspects. The US cop has become used to using unnecessary force because it would seem, he frequently feels that his role is not to be part of the community and abide by the same rules as that community, but as some outside force that feels constantly under threat. How you can think this is a reasonable or agreeable state of affairs I have no idea, particularly since not only genuine suspects are killed, but innocent people who are in the wrong place at the wrong time. I can not see how this is acceptable in any way, shape or form.

Refusing to use the spellchick!

I have put you on ignore. No really, I have, but you are still ruining my enjoyment of this site. .

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Considering the situation I would of been ok with the cop using the taser. When your resisting arrest and cops have to hold you down, I would say thats a good time to use a taser.

Well you would violated just about every police policy on the use of tasers.

Read up on taser policies and then come back and say the use was justified in this case.

If the cops by your own statement can hold you down than a taser is excessive force.

Edited by Atencio

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.

You seem to have lost your mind Simpson, I am an immigrant, I live in the US, but I am not a US citizen so being proud to be an American is quite simply impossible.

Why do you always go semantic on me. You are trying to become a american citizen right? You use our resources right? Point being is why would you constantly bite the hand that feeds you without giving it props.

Yes, the news is sensationalist in nature, I am perfectly aware of that, however, it is pretty difficult to miss the fact that in other European countries, and specifically the UK, suspects are not shot and killed during arrest no matter how threatened the police officers feel during that arrest, as I mentioned, despite the rowdy nature of drunken British yobs who frequently shout their mouths off at the police and throw punches, the police manage to arrest these miscreants without the uses of guns or tazers and very few UK police officers are injured during the arrest process. In other words, properly trained police can arrest mouthy/violent suspects without getting hurt or hurting the suspects. The US cop has become used to using unnecessary force because it would seem, he frequently feels that his role is not to be part of the community and abide by the same rules as that community, but as some outside force that feels constantly under threat. How you can think this is a reasonable or agreeable state of affairs I have no idea, particularly since not only genuine suspects are killed, but innocent people who are in the wrong place at the wrong time. I can not see how this is acceptable in any way, shape or form.

That statement alone tells me you dont get it. Your quick to give the 'suspect' a pass. If more 'suspects' in this country weren't carrying guns you wouldnt see so many cops taking extreme actions. Plain and simple, it speaks louder volumes about the criminals than it does about our cops.

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Why do you always go semantic on me. You are trying to become a american citizen right? You use our resources right? Point being is why would you constantly bite the hand that feeds you without giving it props.

That statement alone tells me you dont get it. Your quick to give the 'suspect' a pass. If more 'suspects' in this country weren't carrying guns you wouldnt see so many cops taking extreme actions. Plain and simple, it speaks louder volumes about the criminals than it does about our cops.

Yet, according to received wisdom it should be far, far worse in the UK because UK citizens and the police are unarmed and only the criminals have guns, and yet the level of gun crime in the UK is very, very low, notwithstanding the once in a blue moon instances. I do 'get it' Simpson, I 'get it' very well. People in the US accept levels of violence that are completely unknown in other developed countries and that is because there are so many people with your attitude that police acting with unnecessary levels of force is the inevitable result of how dangerous and bristling with weapons the US criminal is compared with all their UK/European/Antipodean counterparts. Poppycock - frequently the suspect who is shot turns out to be unarmed, frequently cops tazer feeble/weak individuals simply because they resist arrest, frequently suspects turn out not to be the right person at all and yet that is just the acceptable price society has to pay because US cops need to take extreme actions because US suspects are assumed to be armed and dangerous and that is the only way to deal with the armed and dangerous.

Yes Simpson, I get very well what is wrong with the US police and their disconnect with the communities they police and I know that this is not the only way to police a community, nor is it the best or most successful way to police a community, experience in other communities gives me the ability to make the comparisons and reach this conclusion, and no, just because I am aware of the deficiencies in the US police system does not mean for one instance that I disrespect America, nor does it mean that I constantly criticize everything and everyone American, nor does it mean that I think every US cop is a dumb git and a disgrace to his uniform but I do not expect you to understand that pointing out flaws and differences between good systems and bad ones equates to disrespect, because you have consistently argued that immigrants should simply be in awe of everything American simply because it is American and that makes it better and that any immigrant planning on becoming a citizen must simply shut up and admire America and be grateful for the opportunity.

Edited by Madame Cleo

Refusing to use the spellchick!

I have put you on ignore. No really, I have, but you are still ruining my enjoyment of this site. .

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