I-134 Question, Real Estate

[floridadave 195]

I am preparing my I-134 to send to my fiancee. I want to list my home on the form. The mortgage is paid off. I have already obtained from my County Clerk's office certified copies of the Satisfaction of Mortgage and the Deed itself. But I need the value of my home. So my question is this: Can I use a free online service like Zillow.com and use their "estimate" of my home's value and send that print out with my form? Hey, it's cheaper than an appraiser. Thanks for your help.

[pushbrk 12,103]

I am preparing my I-134 to send to my fiancee. I want to list my home on the form. The mortgage is paid off. I have already obtained from my County Clerk's office certified copies of the Satisfaction of Mortgage and the Deed itself. But I need the value of my home. So my question is this: Can I use a free online service like Zillow.com and use their "estimate" of my home's value and send that print out with my form? Hey, it's cheaper than an appraiser. Thanks for your help.

Your "can" do just about anything you want. Whether it will be accepted is entirely a different matter. Be aware though that, one, if your income is clearly sufficient, you can simply leave all asset related questions blank and two, Consular officers tend not to consider the equity in the home you actually live in.

In short, if you NEED to use your family home equity to qualify, you probably need a cosponsor. If your income is marginal, using the house can help show solvency though. I would use your latest tax assessment instead of an online estimate though.

Edited June 20, 2010 by pushbrk

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Pushbrk's answer is spot on, as usual.

I'll just add that online 'comparables' services like Zillow are practically useless to someone who doesn't know the local real estate market. They base their numbers on a comparison of similar homes that have sold recently in a specific geographical radius. A lot of factors can affect those numbers, and only someone who knows the local area and market would be able to separate the good data from the bad. For example, if a couple of the homes in the list were in a low income housing project, and your home is not in that project, then it will artificially deflate your home's value. Same if some of the homes were bank-owned or distressed. It could also artificially inflate the value if there are homes in the list which are in a newer upscale development. Even if a home in the list had the same specs as yours, was the same age, and in the same housing development, even something as relatively minor as having a different floor plan could have a significant affect on the home's market value.

If you are going to depend on the home's value to help you qualify, and you don't want to risk your proof of value being questioned by the consular officer, then you should get a licensed appraiser.

[pushbrk 12,103]

If you are going to depend on the home's value to help you qualify, and you don't want to risk your proof of value being questioned by the consular officer, then you should get a licensed appraiser.

If you NEED to depend on the home's value to help you qualify, then you should find a qualified cosponsor. Maybe you know one who is also a licensed appraiser. For people with qualifying income that is marginal, they can save some money using the tax assessment. Of course, it's not accurate but it is generally considered to be less than actual value, if recent. Even if discounted 20% in the Consular officer's mind, it will serve the same purpose. They don't believe you'll liquidate the house to support your spouse but they'll get it that your low income is sufficient with no housing payment.

[floridadave 195]

If you NEED to depend on the home's value to help you qualify, then you should find a qualified cosponsor. Maybe you know one who is also a licensed appraiser. For people with qualifying income that is marginal, they can save some money using the tax assessment. Of course, it's not accurate but it is generally considered to be less than actual value, if recent. Even if discounted 20% in the Consular officer's mind, it will serve the same purpose. They don't believe you'll liquidate the house to support your spouse but they'll get it that your low income is sufficient with no housing payment.

My regular government pension brings in a gross total of $2,138 per month. I also receive an $800 monthly annuity form my Thrift Savings Plan (govt. version of 401k). The $800 monthly annuity can be varied (or canceled) if I so apply to change it to another value. The regular government pension of $2,138 is permanent until I die. Is this enough for the I-134? Will this later satisfy the I-864? If this is enough, then I won't bother with home value, savings amount balance, or Thrift Savings Plan balance. Thanks to everyone who have replied so far.

[Audy_Rob 26]

My regular government pension brings in a gross total of $2,138 per month. I also receive an $800 monthly annuity form my Thrift Savings Plan (govt. version of 401k). The $800 monthly annuity can be varied (or canceled) if I so apply to change it to another value. The regular government pension of $2,138 is permanent until I die. Is this enough for the I-134? Will this later satisfy the I-864? If this is enough, then I won't bother with home value, savings amount balance, or Thrift Savings Plan balance. Thanks to everyone who have replied so far.

You did not say what your household size is to properly determine if the amounts given are correct.

Let's say you earn $2938 a month total including dividends in the form of the annuity, then your yearly income is about $35,256 assuming no significant losses from investments or businesses.

Then you can look on the I-864P Poverty Threshold guidelines at USCIS and see you are able to cover yourself and fiancee which only require $18,212 with substantial margin. Even if you have more dependents you will still be very safe.

You should not mess with the house. It is unneccessary.

Good luck.

[floridadave 195]

You did not say what your household size is to properly determine if the amounts given are correct.

Let's say you earn $2938 a month total including dividends in the form of the annuity, then your yearly income is about $35,256 assuming no significant losses from investments or businesses.

Then you can look on the I-864P Poverty Threshold guidelines at USCIS and see you are able to cover yourself and fiancee which only require $18,212 with substantial margin. Even if you have more dependents you will still be very safe.

You should not mess with the house. It is unneccessary.

Good luck.

Family size will be two, me and my fiancee. I have no mortgage, no car payments, no investments other than Thrift Savings Plan. No dependents. So it will be just me and her. I do need to look at this I-864P. Thanks for the heads up on that!

[pushbrk 12,103]

Family size will be two, me and my fiancee. I have no mortgage, no car payments, no investments other than Thrift Savings Plan. No dependents. So it will be just me and her. I do need to look at this I-864P. Thanks for the heads up on that!

You're fine. I would simply state and document the income and leave the asset portions of the form blank. Your income is close to double what is required for a household of two.

[floridadave 195]

You're fine. I would simply state and document the income and leave the asset portions of the form blank. Your income is close to double what is required for a household of two.

I guess I worried too much for nothing. As savings, property, etc. were asked, I see I erroneously assumed it was mandatory to answer these questions. Much less trouble to leave these (other than income) blank, which I shall now do. That is why I post these questions, to be sure. Thanks for the replies. I feel much much better.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

If you NEED to depend on the home's value to help you qualify, then you should find a qualified cosponsor. Maybe you know one who is also a licensed appraiser. For people with qualifying income that is marginal, they can save some money using the tax assessment. Of course, it's not accurate but it is generally considered to be less than actual value, if recent. Even if discounted 20% in the Consular officer's mind, it will serve the same purpose. They don't believe you'll liquidate the house to support your spouse but they'll get it that your low income is sufficient with no housing payment.

I thought the same thing at one time. Because of the "undue hardship" clause in the I-864, I thought they wouldn't consider your only home, just as they won't consider your only car, since selling either would impose an undue hardship. It was pointed out to me, and after a more careful reading of the I-864 instructions, that a house and car are the not the same thing. USCIS will consider the equity in your home as an asset because you can cash out all or part of that equity without selling the home. The resulting increase in your total mortgage payments would be a small fraction of the additional debt incurred, so it isn't likely to be considered an undue hardship or financial loss. Since they'll accept this with an I-864, I don't see any reason they wouldn't accept it with an I-134, as well.

Anyway, this is academic, since the OP doesn't need assets to qualify.

[pushbrk 12,103]

I thought the same thing at one time. Because of the "undue hardship" clause in the I-864, I thought they wouldn't consider your only home, just as they won't consider your only car, since selling either would impose an undue hardship. It was pointed out to me, and after a more careful reading of the I-864 instructions, that a house and car are the not the same thing. USCIS will consider the equity in your home as an asset because you can cash out all or part of that equity without selling the home. The resulting increase in your total mortgage payments would be a small fraction of the additional debt incurred, so it isn't likely to be considered an undue hardship or financial loss. Since they'll accept this with an I-864, I don't see any reason they wouldn't accept it with an I-134, as well.

Anyway, this is academic, since the OP doesn't need assets to qualify.

"How" equity in the family home is considered is the issue, not "whether". Yes a house is not a car and for the reasons you state but there's no guarantee of borrowing equity. If income is below 125% of the poverty level, that also impacts one's ability to qualify for a loan. Remember, this issue only becomes relevant when the relative has been in a position to receive means tested benefits. When a couple qualifies for the kind of benefits the would need to repay, they usually don't qualify for much of a home equity loan, since they have no means to repay it.

[Darnell 8,478]

if you still decide to use the house as an asset -

The 'stand up evaluation' done at GUZ IV, on interview day, is done , using the computations and requirements from the I-864. There's some clear language in the I-864 about using a house - you absolutely have to have an appraiser's appraisal document attached to the I-134. I know of no way 'around' this requirement. Not to say it doesn't exist, only that I don't know of it.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

"How" equity in the family home is considered is the issue, not "whether". Yes a house is not a car and for the reasons you state but there's no guarantee of borrowing equity. If income is below 125% of the poverty level, that also impacts one's ability to qualify for a loan. Remember, this issue only becomes relevant when the relative has been in a position to receive means tested benefits. When a couple qualifies for the kind of benefits the would need to repay, they usually don't qualify for much of a home equity loan, since they have no means to repay it.

Not to belabor the point, but lenders around here will happily write a HELOC for someone with little or no income if they have substantial equity. They'll greatly reduce the amount of available credit so that it's well below the actual amount of equity the homeowner has, and jack up the interest rate. HELOC lenders are the pawn brokers of the real estate industry. They're not particularly bothered if you don't repay the loan, since they're content to foreclose and get your home for a fraction of it's market value.

[floridadave 195]

if you still decide to use the house as an asset -

The 'stand up evaluation' done at GUZ IV, on interview day, is done , using the computations and requirements from the I-864. There's some clear language in the I-864 about using a house - you absolutely have to have an appraiser's appraisal document attached to the I-134. I know of no way 'around' this requirement. Not to say it doesn't exist, only that I don't know of it.

Thanks for letting me know that. I will have to read the instructions for the I-864 more carefully. Anyway, it does seem I have the required income. So I won't be using any other assets unless forced to by the authorities. This is good information to know nonetheless. thanks.

[pushbrk 12,103]

Not to belabor the point, but lenders around here will happily write a HELOC for someone with little or no income if they have substantial equity. They'll greatly reduce the amount of available credit so that it's well below the actual amount of equity the homeowner has, and jack up the interest rate. HELOC lenders are the pawn brokers of the real estate industry. They're not particularly bothered if you don't repay the loan, since they're content to foreclose and get your home for a fraction of it's market value.

You aren't belaboring the point. You're making mine. It's how, not whether. See bold in your last sentence.