Opinion: Don't Buy the Hype About Arizona's Law

[PhiLandShiR 18]

http://www.aolnews.com/opinion/article/opinion-dont-by-the-hype-about-arizonas-law/19458030

(April 28) -- After decades of failure by the federal government to properly secure the border, Arizona lawmakers, led by state Sen. Russell Pearce, have answered the call.

Responding to the demands of their constituents who want immigration enforcement, they approved SB 1070, a law that requires state and local law enforcement to protect the interests of Arizonans if the federal government won't.

The legislation declares "attrition through enforcement" to be the official policy of state and local government agencies in Arizona. This policy will make it difficult for illegal immigrants to live and work in Arizona. Illegal immigrants already living there are also more likely to leave (self-deport), and it creates disincentives for more to come here illegally. And, according to a recent Rasmussen Reports poll, 70 percent of Arizonans support the law.

Unfortunately, this sensible law has been met with hysteria and deliberate distortion by advocates for illegal immigrants who are already frustrated that President Barack Obama isn't moving quickly enough to enact a sweeping amnesty. As it gains national and international attention, it's important to cut through the distortions and deliberate misrepresentations and focus on what the law actually requires. Here are the main myths:

Racial profiling. The most common misrepresentation of SB 1070 is that it requires police to engage in racial profiling. In reality, the law specifically prohibits profiling people based on appearance or other characteristics. It requires police officers, who form a "reasonable suspicion" that someone is an illegal immigrant during a lawful stop, to determine the person's immigration status. A prime example of reasonable suspicion might be the inability of an individual to produce any valid U.S. identity documents. In addition, the law focuses on illegal immigrants who have committed more serious offenses by requiring police to check the immigration status for all people arrested and authorizes law enforcement agencies to transfer verified illegal immigrants into federal custody.

Additional police powers. Despite the furor of the illegal immigrant advocacy network, SB 1070 doesn't give police officers any additional power to stop or pull someone over. Police will still need to abide by lawful contact as they do now. Law enforcement still needs a legitimate reason -- the commission of another infraction such as speeding -- to justify a stop.

And the law is predicated on the protections of the Fourth Amendment, which guard against unreasonable searches and seizures. It does not mean that police will immediately ask for immigration papers (something resident immigrants are already required to carry under federal law).

As they do now, officers will go through a mechanical and lawful process of asking for identification. Only after a thorough process of following protocol will a police officer be required to ask about immigration status and then only if he or she has reasonable suspicion the person may be an illegal immigrant. Even then, the law prohibits law enforcement from considering race, color or national origin as part of reasonable suspicion.

The enactment of S.B. 1070 underscores the need for the federal government to secure the border and enforce our laws throughout the nation. If the Obama administration had been doing its job protecting the interests and security of Arizonans, there would have been no need for the law.

The vast majority of Arizonans simply want the government to enforce our laws, and Gov. Jan Brewer and the Arizona have stepped in to do the job that Washington won't.

Dustin Carnevale is with the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Just so you know who is behind FAIR, is the same guy behind NumbersUSA - John Tanton. There is strong evidence that he is the one behind pushing this law to get passed.

And for those who don't know who John Tanton is...

A February 2009 report by Southern Poverty Law Center examined Tanton's written correspondence^[22] highlighted alleged connections between Tanton's immigration-reduction efforts and white supremacist, neo-Nazi and pro-eugenics leaders.^[23]

The introduction to the report reads:

FAIR, CIS and NumbersUSA are all part of a network of restrictionist organizations conceived and created by John Tanton, the “puppeteer” of the nativist movement and a man with deep racist roots. As the first article in this report shows, Tanton has for decades been at the heart of the white nationalist scene. He has met with leading white supremacists, promoted anti-Semitic ideas, and associated closely with the leaders of a eugenicist foundation once described by a leading newspaper as a “neo-Nazi organization.” He has made a series of racist statements about Latinos and worried that they were outbreeding whites. At one point, he wrote candidly that to maintain American culture, “a European-American majority” is required.

^[24]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tanton

.........

He's a fvcking racist.

[Pooky 3,347]

Just so you know who is behind FAIR, is the same guy behind NumbersUSA - John Tanton. There is strong evidence that he is the one behind pushing this law to get passed.

And for those who don't know who John Tanton is...

A February 2009 report by Southern Poverty Law Center examined Tanton's written correspondence^[22] highlighted alleged connections between Tanton's immigration-reduction efforts and white supremacist, neo-Nazi and pro-eugenics leaders.^[23]

The introduction to the report reads:

FAIR, CIS and NumbersUSA are all part of a network of restrictionist organizations conceived and created by John Tanton, the “puppeteer” of the nativist movement and a man with deep racist roots. As the first article in this report shows, Tanton has for decades been at the heart of the white nationalist scene. He has met with leading white supremacists, promoted anti-Semitic ideas, and associated closely with the leaders of a eugenicist foundation once described by a leading newspaper as a “neo-Nazi organization.” He has made a series of racist statements about Latinos and worried that they were outbreeding whites. At one point, he wrote candidly that to maintain American culture, “a European-American majority” is required.

^[24]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tanton

.........

He's a fvcking racist.

Once again, when you can't argue the message, you aim at the messenger. Such a closed-mind.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Once again, when you can't argue the message, you aim at the messenger. Such a closed-mind.

For a wise guy who cynically talks of how politicians 'play the game', you're being naive to not recognize how these organizations use the media through articles like this to make their cause look like it's not a concentrated effort. The Southern Poverty Law Center is a well respected organization that has tirelessly investigated racist groups. There is a good chance that this racist ####### was behind getting this law passed in Arizona.

[Pooky 3,347]

For a wise guy who cynically talks of how politicians 'play the game', you're being naive to not recognize how these organizations use the media through articles like this to make their cause look like it's not a concentrated effort. The Southern Poverty Law Center is a well respected organization that has tirelessly investigated racist groups. There is a good chance that this racist ####### was behind getting this law passed in Arizona.

Note that I didn't argue your opinion of the person, as you seem to want to do to deflect from the issue here. Like I've said of Pat Buchanan in another thread, he may be wrong sometimes, maybe even most times he opens his mouth, but that doesn't mean you can write off everything they say.

In the article posted by the O.P., I happen to think FAIR hits the nail on the head with this issue. So quit trying to smear the messenger and actually argue the message. You always say you're up for intelligent debate. All I'm asking is that you prove it once in a while.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Note that I didn't argue your opinion of the person, as you seem to want to do to deflect from the issue here. Like I've said of Pat Buchanan in another thread, he may be wrong sometimes, maybe even most times he opens his mouth, but that doesn't mean you can write off everything they say.

In the article posted by the O.P., I happen to think FAIR hits the nail on the head with this issue. So quit trying to smear the messenger and actually argue the message. You always say you're up for intelligent debate. All I'm asking is that you prove it once in a while.

You've got quite a big chip on shoulder there, bud. Everything has context and I posted that reference to Pat Buchanan for the OP who not only likes to post articles of 'guilt by association' at every opportunity, but also has posted thread after thread of Pat Buchanan adding his own, "Buchanan tells it like it is again." But thanks for taking the time to follow me around here on my posts and keeping me honest. Since you've decided to become the thread police, how about you start looking at all threads and who is posting what here so at least your policing will be consistent.

Getting back to FAIR - again you are being naive. These groups try their best to gain legitimacy in the court of public opinion, meanwhile have ulterior motives. Just because you agree with what the article says doesn't negate the larger effort these organizations have been working on - which is to drastically reduce all immigration even while they deny so in public. If you care about the issue, I'd encourage you to read what the Southern Poverty Law Center has on those organizations.

[Heracles 417]

Note that I didn't argue your opinion of the person, as you seem to want to do to deflect from the issue here. Like I've said of Pat Buchanan in another thread, he may be wrong sometimes, maybe even most times he opens his mouth, but that doesn't mean you can write off everything they say.

In the article posted by the O.P., I happen to think FAIR hits the nail on the head with this issue. So quit trying to smear the messenger and actually argue the message. You always say you're up for intelligent debate. All I'm asking is that you prove it once in a while.

[Danno 1,228]

Just so you know who is behind FAIR, is the same guy behind NumbersUSA - John Tanton. There is strong evidence that he is the one behind pushing this law to get passed.

And for those who don't know who John Tanton is...

A February 2009 report by Southern Poverty Law Center examined Tanton's written correspondence^[22] highlighted alleged connections between Tanton's immigration-reduction efforts and white supremacist, neo-Nazi and pro-eugenics leaders.^[23]

The introduction to the report reads:

FAIR, CIS and NumbersUSA are all part of a network of restrictionist organizations conceived and created by John Tanton, the “puppeteer” of the nativist movement and a man with deep racist roots. As the first article in this report shows, Tanton has for decades been at the heart of the white nationalist scene. He has met with leading white supremacists, promoted anti-Semitic ideas, and associated closely with the leaders of a eugenicist foundation once described by a leading newspaper as a “neo-Nazi organization.” He has made a series of racist statements about Latinos and worried that they were outbreeding whites. At one point, he wrote candidly that to maintain American culture, “a European-American majority” is required.

^[24]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tanton

.........

He's a fvcking racist.

Seems near everyone is a racist in this climate.

Steve you might still give weight to claims made by the $PLC (southern poverty law center)... but they have rapidly lost credibility in the last few years and are pretty much a fund raising shill, have you got another source?

Edited April 30, 2010 by Danno

[_Simpson_ 250]

Racial profiling. The most common misrepresentation of SB 1070 is that it requires police to engage in racial profiling. In reality, the law specifically prohibits profiling people based on appearance or other characteristics.

The police officers wont be able to help themselves and will give into the nature of this law and start profiling according to race.

[Peikko 1,575]

The police officers wont be able to help themselves and will give into the nature of this law and start profiling according to race.

Percentage wise, how much of the illegal population do you think actively engages in criminal behaviour, beyond illegal entry, let's take that as a given and not get all 'simply being here is a criminal act' malarky, because clearly no one has the ability to simply look at someone and know they have entered the country illegally.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Percentage wise, how much of the illegal population do you think actively engages in criminal behaviour, beyond illegal entry, let's take that as a given and not get all 'simply being here is a criminal act' malarky, because clearly no one has the ability to simply look at someone and know they have entered the country illegally.

Of course you cant just look at someone and tell if there illegal thats why the law requires probable cause. Acting nervously,unable to speak English and unable to provide ID is probable cause for me.

Lets say for arguments sake its 2%. Do you think that the percentage of illegals being examined will be far greater than 2%. Do you assume the cop is going suspect them to be illegal first and then try to pin a crime on them? Come on.

[Peikko 1,575]

Of course you cant just look at someone and tell if there illegal thats why the law requires probable cause. Acting nervously,unable to speak English and unable to provide ID is probable cause for me.

Lets say for arguments sake its 2%. Do you think that the percentage of illegals being examined will be far greater than 2%. Do you assume the cop is going suspect them to be illegal first and then try to pin a crime on them? Come on.

How is unable to provide ID probably cause exactly? How do you spot someone who is unable to provide ID? Unable to speak English and acting nervously are also not probable cause of a specific crime. As I understood it, the idea was to further question people who had committed a non immigration related offense. Your 'probable cause' as illustrated relies completely on suspicion of being present illegally based on stereotype and nothing else. I find that confusing.

My point is, if the police are only further investigating those people who have been detained on suspicion of committing a non immigration offense, then the success rate of this measure in the discovery of illegal immigrants is going to be very low and will very likely not include the more heinous criminals involved in drug trafficking although one would hope that that is already a fairly high priority for Arizonan police.

[_Simpson_ 250]

How is unable to provide ID probably cause exactly? How do you spot someone who is unable to provide ID? Unable to speak English and acting nervously are also not probable cause of a specific crime. As I understood it, the idea was to further question people who had committed a non immigration related offense. Your 'probable cause' as illustrated relies completely on suspicion of being present illegally based on stereotype and nothing else. I find that confusing.

About the ID, not having it and the other things I mentioned would lead a reasonable person to believe that one might be a illegal immigrant and prompt a officer to ask further questions. This sort of thing happens in homcide cases all the time when someone is suspected based on what you call stereotypes. Would you be ok with a officer being required to ask everybody for proof of citizenship?

My point is, if the police are only further investigating those people who have been detained on suspicion of committing a non immigration offense, then the success rate of this measure in the discovery of illegal immigrants is going to be very low and will very likely not include the more heinous criminals involved in drug trafficking although one would hope that that is already a fairly high priority for Arizonan police.

Its one thing to say the law would be ineffective its another thing to say that its going to lead to racial profiling by our officers. I dont know how effective it will be but its worth a try if the law is just and it is. Nothing wrong with giving the officers one more tool in there arsenal even if it has little affect.

Edited April 30, 2010 by _Simpson_

[Peikko 1,575]

About the ID, not having it and the other things I mentioned would lead a reasonable person to believe that one might be a illegal immigrant and prompt a officer to ask further questions. This sort of thing happens in homcide cases all the time when someone is suspected based on what you call stereotypes. Would you be ok with a officer being required to ask everybody for proof of citizenship?

Its one thing to say the law would be ineffective its another thing to say that its going to lead to racial profiling by our officers. I dont know how effective it will be but its worth a try if the law is just and it is. Nothing wrong with giving the officers one more tool in there arsenal even if it has little affect.

I have no idea what you believe police work entails, but I can tell you this, they don't just arrest people because they think they look guilty of something.

The law is bad on two fronts, it has the potential for racial profiling and the erosion of civil liberties and it will be ineffective unless that very same racial profiling and suspension of civil liberties occurs.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Steve you might still give weight to claims made by the $PLC (southern poverty law center)... but they have rapidly lost credibility in the last few years and are pretty much a fund raising shill, have you got another source?

The John Tanton Network and the Anti-Immigrant Movement in America

One man is at the heart of the most influential anti-immigrant network in the country. This man, John Tanton, has created an empire of organizations consisting of lobbyists, lawyers, legislators, and "experts" that have permeated the very depths of social and political debate.

What appears to the public as a myriad of voices advocating for severe immigration enforcement is nothing more than a series of front groups, "coalitions," and spin-offs seeking to overwhelm reasonable debate on immigration. Tanton founded the Federation for American Immigration Reform 30 years ago and shortly thereafter U.S. Inc. These two groups jointly fund and support most of today's national anti-immigrant groups.

Groups like the Center for Immigration Studies, also founded by Tanton, which serves as a quasi-think tank to the anti-immigrant movement. Or the Coalition for the Future American Worker which pretends to be the voice of American workers. Progressives for Immigration Reform, NumbersUSA, Immigration Reform Law Institute, United to Secure America Coalition are a few more of the innocuous sounding groups. The sheer number of them is dizzying. The names themselves are meant to deceive.

But that is hardly the most sinister aspect of John Tanton's Network.

Respected civil rights groups - including the Southern Poverty Law Center and Anti-Defamation League - have uncovered troubling associations with racists, white supremacists, and political extremists. One is the Pioneer Fund, a foundation committed to eugenics and "scientific racism". The Pioneer Fund provided John Tanton with the early funding he needed to build a multi-million dollar operation.javascript:submitbutton('apply');

The Tanton network's ties to white supremacists associated with the Council of Conservative Citizens and to the VDARE Foundation serve only to heighten growing unease about it within the civil rights community. The Center for New Community is distributing a map detailing the nature of these relationships. This map shows that behind the long-winded names and complicated connections, the truth is much simpler; it is one network and one message.

The Tanton Network's message is clear - immigrants are not welcome here.

http://www.newcomm.o.../view/2131/108/