Gordon Brown and the "bigoted woman"

[Heracles 417]

No, they all move to Australia where the grass is green and the girls are pretty.

Actually they do Aus is the #1 choice for British expats. Well the smart professional ones that actually want access to a high quality of life rather than a city that has a name, but looks like Baghdad..

Edited April 29, 2010 by Booyah!

[SMR 368]

Come on, you can't have forgotten what it was like here during the 2008 election. Obama got hauled over the coals for calling Pennsylvania voters small-minded people who "cling to religion and guns".

This is more or less the same thing.

A couple differences here.

1) Gordon Brown was referring to a specific person he had met. Obama was talking about a group of people, most of whom he has not met.

2) Many saw this as evidence of an Obama disconnect because he was implying that religion and guns are bad thing. Most Americans think religion and guns are integral, good, and important parts of our society. That is Americans don't disagree that they are attached to guns and religion; they just don't see that as a problem while Obama clearly did. I would imagine that most English don't think bigotry is a good thing.

Edited April 29, 2010 by SMR

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

A couple differences here.

1) Gordon Brown was referring to a specific person he had met. Obama was talking about a group of people, most of whom he has not met.

It is no substantial difference. It was a foot in mouth moment on the national stage.

As I said, I don't see it as being particularly important beyond sheer entertainment value. I wasn't planning to vote Labour anyway, so it has no effect on my decision.

2) Many saw this as evidence of an Obama disconnect because he was implying that religion and guns are bad thing. Most Americans think religion and guns are integral, good, and important parts of our society. That is Americans don't disagree that they are attached to guns and religion; they just don't see that as a problem while Obama clearly did. I would imagine that most English don't think bigotry is a good thing.

The question surely is whether the general British public share the same opinion as Gordon Brown as to what is "bigoted".

[Peikko 1,575]

Hey hey it's Cleos best mate.

Nice dodge of the question of the impact of workers coming from Eastern Europe.

'Brits move to to Europe too'. Riiiight, so an equal number move to Poland do they.

How on earth do you work that out? Oh yeah, BY logic which is different to, but as successful as Dannologic.

[Heracles 417]

How on earth do you work that out? Oh yeah, BY logic which is different to, but as successful as Dannologic.

Evidently much like yourself, this great left wing leader feels limitless low paid immigrants are a good thing for Britain. Yet once again, he like yourself ignores the impact it has had on wages and quality of life for the average Brit. For someone wealthy, limitless cheap labor is a profit for them. Whereas, for the average Joe, it's a disaster.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Evidently much like yourself, this great left wing leader feels limitless low paid immigrants are a good thing for Britain. Yet once again, he like yourself ignores the impact it has had on wages and quality of life for the average Brit. For someone wealthy, limitless cheap labor is a profit for them. Whereas, for the average Joe, it's a disaster.

BY, none of the 3 major parties have pledged to address that issue, because it is tied up in European Law and would involve fundamentally redefining the UK's involvement in the European Union.

The only people who are standing on a platform to get the UK out of the EU are the UK Independence Party and that is their only election promise.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

For someone wealthy, limitless cheap labor is a profit for them. Whereas, for the average Joe, it's a disaster.

The problem with Average Joe is that he gets employment benefits that mean he will lose money if he takes a job at or near the minimum wage.

Yes, even in the UK, there are jobs that the citizenry aren't prepared to do.

[Heracles 417]

Well they should because it has driven salaries and job prospects for many Brits into the gutter.

The best thing someone skilled in the UK can do is get their azz to AUS, where they will be paid well over $70K for any skilled trade work.

[Peikko 1,575]

Evidently much like yourself, this great left wing leader feels limitless low paid immigrants are a good thing for Britain. Yet once again, he like yourself ignores the impact it has had on wages and quality of life for the average Brit. For someone wealthy, limitless cheap labor is a profit for them. Whereas, for the average Joe, it's a disaster.

Again, you have made all that up, and for your information, there are 5 Million Britains living and working in continental Europe because they can take advantage of the same rules that the unscrupulous Poles do.

[Heracles 417]

The problem with Average Joe is that he gets employment benefits that mean he will lose money if he takes a job at or near the minimum wage.

Yes, even in the UK, there are jobs that the citizenry aren't prepared to do.

Why do you think that is? I remember seeing what non union blue-collar workers get there an it's a bloody joke. Why do you think a plumber earning £27K in the UK can earn well over £60K in AUS? Where the cost of living is much lower too. Hint: immigration + supply & demand.

It's the same deal with the US. When the US was hungry for immigrants the population was 70 million, not the present day 309 million. The thought that adding millions more somehow helps a mature economy is laughable. Rather, it will only help the rich yet continue to drive the quality of life for Americans into the ground; as it has done so in the UK. Developing economies like Canada or Australia on the other hand need immigrants.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Why do you think that is? I remember seeing what non union blue-collar workers get there an it's a bloody joke. Why do you think a plumber earning £27K in the UK can earn well over £60K in AUS? Where the cost of living is much lower too. Hint: immigration + supply & demand.

It's the same deal with the US. When the US was hungry for immigrants the population was 70 million, not the present day 309 million. The thought that adding millions more somehow helps a mature economy is laughable. Rather, it will only help the rich yet continue to drive the quality of life for Americans into the ground; as it has done so in the UK. Developing economies like Canada or Australia on the other hand need immigrants.

I told you why that is, the benefits people get Vs. the sorts of jobs they can get (these are mainly unskilled school-leavers we're talking about here) mean that they are better off on benefit than taking a job for 8 quid a hour.

It's the benefits system that needs to be addressed, but again... none of the major parties are proposing those kind of cuts (though Labour seems to want everyone to believe that the Tories will do it) because it isn't politic to slash people's unemployment benefit right next to an election and in a bad economy.

Well they should because it has driven salaries and job prospects for many Brits into the gutter.

The best thing someone skilled in the UK can do is get their azz to AUS, where they will be paid well over $70K for any skilled trade work.

Most of the jobs being taken by the East Europeans are "unskilled" jobs. They have to be filled somehow, if the British won't do it - the Poles may as well.

[Heracles 417]

You are missing the point. Because the UK has a limitless number of immigrants willing to work for peanuts, supply and demand cannot work; as is the case in the United States. Thus speaking up against illegal aliens.

Wages cannot appreciate when you have thousands coming in willing to work for nothing. Whereas, a country like Aus with limited supply has demonstrated that even without government intervention, you can lift up salaries for all. Welfare in Australia actually pays out more than that of the British system, yet most people would rather earn £60K+ to £151K (in my cousins case) than be on the dole.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Booyah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You are missing the point. Because the UK has a limitless number of immigrants willing to work for peanuts, supply and demand cannot work; as is the case in the United States. Thus speaking up against illegal aliens.

Wages cannot appreciate when you have thousands coming in willing to work for nothing. Whereas, a country like Aus with limited supply has without a doubt illustrated that even without government intervention, you can lift up salaries for all. Welfare in Australia actually pays out more than that of the British system, yet most people would rather earn £60K+ to £151K (in my cousins case) than be on the dole.

The UK has a national debt that rivals Greece (which recently went bankrupt), inflation is set to go through the roof in the next few months and after the election there are going to be massive layoffs from the civil service as whoever gets in will have little choice but to cut public spending. It's safe to say that salaries are not going to go up anytime soon.

That's what people are pissed off about right now - because none of the major parties are telling the public how or where they will make these cuts. As PM, Gordon Brown is going to be fall guy because all of this happened on his watch. Not the only reason of course - people are still pissed off with Labour for the Iraq War, University Tuition Fees, the pensions crisis. etc. etc. etc.

As to the immigration situation, as I said none of the major parties is going to withdraw Britain from the EU. We may get some limited immigration reform, quotas and so forth, but EU citizens will still have the right to travel and work as they wish.

[SMR 368]

The question surely is whether the general British public share the same opinion as Gordon Brown as to what is "bigoted".

Certainly. For someone that doesn't, I suppose this could be a wakeup call to see that there is a disconnect between their values and Brown's, much like the "guns and religion" comment showed a disconnect between Obama and middle America. I just don't think that Browns definition of bigoted is as off kilter as Obama's criticism of religion and guns.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Whereas, for the average Joe, it's a disaster.

We're talking about the English here. That should be the average Jeeves. Or the average Nigel.