initial evidence?

[Terry and Sorina 0]

I just recieved this notification the other day and have been waiting on the letter from USCIS. & days later and still no letter. I submitted , phone records , pictures of us together there and here, e-mail's , IM conversations, plane tickets and hotel reciepts. What more could they want or is this just thier way to say all that I submitted has been lost in the paper jungle?

On August 5, 2009, we mailed a notice requesting initial evidence in this case. Please follow the instructions on the notice to submit the evidence requested. Meanwhile, processing of this case is on hold until we either receive the evidence or the opportunity to submit it expires. Once you submit the evidence requested and a decision is made, you will be notified by mail. If you move while this case is pending, please use our Change of Address online tool to update your mailing address.

[Old Dominion 26]

What the message SHOULD have said, was that on August 5, we prepared a letter to you....etc. It will be spit out of some computer somewhere in the U.S., wait a couple of days until there is a large enough batch of mail to be processed at the post office, and then come to you maybe six days later. So give it until August 19. Let's hope the request for more information is simple.

[Anh map 2,098]

Initial evidence means that a required item is missing.

Did you send letter of intent from both of you? Proof of meeting? USC proof of citizenship? G-325A's for both of you? Passport style photos of both of you? Copies of all divorce decrees if applicable?

[thepizzadude 26]

- Payment in the amount of $455.00

- I-129F

- I-129F Supplement: Part B, Question 18, explanation of meeting in person [ONLY IF USED ADDITIONAL SHEET]

- G-325A and passport style photo (Petitioner)

- G-325A and passport style photo (Beneficiary)

- Birth certificate/US Passport (Petitioner)

- Letter certifying intent to marry (Petitioner and Beneficiary)

- Proof of having met in person in the past two years

- Proof of ongoing relationship

Did you send each and everyone of these items...and which copy of the G-325A did you use, the new one or the old one?

Edited August 13, 2009 by thepizzadude

[Terry and Sorina 0]

YES YES YES and the newest form of the 325a( unless they have changed again) I think I will just have to wait and see what the letter says or call them and ask what the Hay they want now. bureaucracy ...... bah humbug!!!!!!!!!!

[Anh map 2,098]

Just wait for the letter. You have to include the letter when you send in the info.

[thepizzadude 26]

YES YES YES and the newest form of the 325a( unless they have changed again) I think I will just have to wait and see what the letter says or call them and ask what the Hay they want now. bureaucracy ...... bah humbug!!!!!!!!!!

Please let us know if it is because you just sent 1 copy and they still expect 4.

[smurfs 0]

- Payment in the amount of $455.00

- I-129F

- I-129F Supplement: Part B, Question 18, explanation of meeting in person [ONLY IF USED ADDITIONAL SHEET]

- G-325A and passport style photo (Petitioner)

- G-325A and passport style photo (Beneficiary)

- Birth certificate/US Passport (Petitioner)

- Letter certifying intent to marry (Petitioner and Beneficiary)

- Proof of having met in person in the past two years

- Proof of ongoing relationship

Did you send each and everyone of these items...and which copy of the G-325A did you use, the new one or the old one?

Hi,I like to ask, how many copies of the revised G-325A form did you pass? if 4 copies,did you print the same form for 4 times? please, enlighten me with this. Thanks a whole lot.

[Terry and Sorina 0]

I got the letter and all it was that my divorce decree was not a certified copy. The copy I had sent was signed and dated and proper but since it was a copy and I had not had it notarized The USCIS decided it was not valid.

They said we should hear something back in about 14 to 60 days ( more than likely 60) Thanks all for the help

[Arabella 4]

I got the letter and all it was that my divorce decree was not a certified copy. The copy I had sent was signed and dated and proper but since it was a copy and I had not had it notarized The USCIS decided it was not valid.

They said we should hear something back in about 14 to 60 days ( more than likely 60) Thanks all for the help

=O Are you kidding? I have seen plenty of people post on here that you don't need a certified copy, just a photo copy of your divorce decree. This really upsets me if you have to send in a certified copy.

Please someone change the guides if this is indeed true???? I sent in a photo copy of the original with the seal.

I have the original sitting at home . . . I even had to pay $37.50 to get a certified stamped copy from the clerk of court! I just made a copy of it and mailed it off with my packet. Should I try to beat the RFE and send it on?

Aaahhhh!

From the Guides:

Assembling the I-129F Package: Checklist

Forms and Documents (follow these assembly instructions. All supporting documents must be in English or be translated as noted here.):

12. Copy of final Divorce Decree(s) or Certificate(s) for the US Citizen and/or foreign fiance(e) if either has been previously married. If the previous marriage of the US Citizen and/or foreign fiance(e) ended due to the death of their spouse then include a Copy of Death Certificate(s) documenting that fact.

^^^^ This says photo copy- not "certified copy with court seal."

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Hmm, I'll take a look at that. I know that when I did the K-1 we did not have to send certified copies of the Divorce Decrees - and my husband had two. I did need to bring the original decrees to the interview, however, and they were carefully examined. The IO even went to get a second opinion about one of them because it was an extract from the Divorce Records by the registrar which is all they had from that far back.

I am not aware of USCIS changing their requirements for the I-129f but will check into it. It may be a case of an overzealous caseworker, though.

[Arabella 4]

I got the letter and all it was that my divorce decree was not a certified copy. The copy I had sent was signed and dated and proper but since it was a copy and I had not had it notarized The USCIS decided it was not valid.

They said we should hear something back in about 14 to 60 days ( more than likely 60) Thanks all for the help

=O Are you kidding? I have seen plenty of people post on here that you don't need a certified copy, just a photo copy of your divorce decree. This really upsets me if you have to send in a certified copy.

Please someone change the guides if this is indeed true???? I sent in a photo copy of the original with the seal.

I have the original sitting at home . . . I even had to pay $37.50 to get a certified stamped copy from the clerk of court! I just made a copy of it and mailed it off with my packet. Should I try to beat the RFE and send it on?

Aaahhhh!

From the Guides:

Assembling the I-129F Package: Checklist

Forms and Documents (follow these assembly instructions. All supporting documents must be in English or be translated as noted here.):

12. Copy of final Divorce Decree(s) or Certificate(s) for the US Citizen and/or foreign fiance(e) if either has been previously married. If the previous marriage of the US Citizen and/or foreign fiance(e) ended due to the death of their spouse then include a Copy of Death Certificate(s) documenting that fact.

^^^^ This says photo copy- not "certified copy with court seal."

From the USCIS instructions for the I-129f packet:

Unless specifically required . . . an ordinary legiable photocopy may be submitted.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/I-129Finstr.pdf

Hmm, I'll take a look at that. I know that when I did the K-1 we did not have to send certified copies of the Divorce Decrees - and my husband had two. I did need to bring the original decrees to the interview, however, and they were carefully examined. The IO even went to get a second opinion about one of them because it was an extract from the Divorce Records by the registrar which is all they had from that far back.

I am not aware of USCIS changing their requirements for the I-129f but will check into it. It may be a case of an overzealous caseworker, though.

Thanks Kathryn. I have the original with the seal and ordered it to give to Sean for when he has his interview. I did not send it in simply because I did not think it was required and the court charged me so much for it!

[Dakine 26]

Sucks but send them what they ask for. Doesn't matter if it's required or not. ALWAYS do what RFE says to do. NO more no less.

[Arabella 4]

Sucks but send them what they ask for. Doesn't matter if it's required or not. ALWAYS do what RFE says to do. NO more no less.

That's not what I am debating. I am simply asking if a certified/stamped original is now required instead of a photocopy of the original.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Ok,

I checked a variety of primary sources. It appears that there have been no changes to the instructions that state ordinary photocopies are acceptable. However, legislation also states that USCIS can request the originals or certified copy at any stage of the process, so it appears that the OP has a over-zealous adjudicator, but that certified copies are not generally required for the original I-129f submission.

A. From the most recent directions for I-129f (expires 01/31/10)

5

) D. If either you or your fiancé(e) were married before, give copies of documents showing that each prior marriage was legally terminated.

and under:

9) Copies. Unless specifically required that an original document be filed with an application or petition, an ordinary legible photocopy may be submitted. Original documents submitted when not required will remain a part of the record, even if the submission was not required.

Requests for more information or interview. We may request more information or evidence, or we may request that you appear at a USCIS office for an interview. We may also request that you submit the originals of any copy. We will return these originals when they are no longer required."

I checked back a full year in the USCIS Federal Register announcements and there were no announcements regarding changing requirements to have a certified copy of any document for the I-129f petition.

I also checked the Immigration Policy and Procedural Memoranda back to the beginning of this year and there were no memoranda issued regarding requirements of certified documents for the I-129f petition.

In the Adjudicator's Field Manual - Chapter 11: Evidence:

(d) Evidentiary Standards . Because the strict rules of evidence used in judicial proceedings do not apply in administrative proceedings, a wide range of oral or documentary evidence may be used in a visa petition proceeding or other immigration benefit application proceeding. A copy of a public record (birth certificate, marriage or divorce certificates, adoption decrees, and similar documents) is admissible if the person having custody over the original records has certified the copy. For example, a copy of a divorce decree is admissible if the clerk of the court has certified the copy. A regulation, 8 CFR 287.6 , provides that a certified copy of a foreign public record (other than a Canadian record) should also be authenticated by a U.S. Foreign Service officer or, if the country is a party to the Hague Convention on abolition of legalization requirements for foreign public records, by a higher-level official of the foreign country. . . . Note, however, that in 1990, the Service announced that, as a matter of policy, it would accept copies of public records that have been certified by the custodian of the records, even if they are not authenticated by a U.S. Foreign Service officer . . . For this reason, only the custodian of the record needs to certify a foreign public record in order for the foreign public record to be admissible.

(e) Best Evidence Rule . In adjudicating a petition or application for a benefit, you will often deal with evidence and facts which are of a documentary nature, such as marriage dates, dates of birth, death, divorce, criminal records, school records, etc. This often brings into play what is known as the "best evidence rule.” While the best evidence rule is not strictly applicable in an administrative proceeding, you should adhere to it as closely as you can. The rule states that where the contents of a document are at issue in a case, the document itself must be introduced rather than secondary evidence as to its content. For example, if an issue in an interview is the date on which a divorce decree became final, the divorce decree itself should be introduced, rather than a letter stating when the decree became final or a second marriage certificate stating the date of the first divorce. As you can see, the rule provides an external basis for verifying claimed facts. In considering the rule, you should be aware of one major exception. When a document is a public document, the contents of that document may be proven by a certified copy. Also, when a document is prepared in carbon or multiple copies (as opposed to photocopies created after the fact), each copy is an "original" for purposes of the rule.

and

(1) Public Documents . Public documents are the official records of legislative, judicial and administrative bodies. Such documents, or copies thereof duly certified by their custodian, are generally admissible as evidence without the testimony of the officer who made the records. In administrative proceedings, such documents are generally admissible.

At 8 CFR 287.6 , regulations indicate the proper method for authenticating public records. As noted, however, the Service announced in 1990 that, as a matter of policy, the Service would no longer require the extra step of the authentication of the certification of a copy of a public record. For both domestic and foreign public records, the certification of the custodian of the record is enough to make the copy admissible. Note that 8 CFR 103.2(B)(4) . permits the submission of copies, rather than the original, of documents. This regulation does NOT mean that public records need not be certified. In the case of domestic or foreign public records, the correct interpretation of 8 CFR 103.2(B)(4) is that:

• The petitioner or applicant MUST obtain a certified copy of the record, but need not have the certification authenticated by a U.S. Foreign Service Officer as described in 8 CFR 287.6(B) or ©;

• The petitioner or applicant may then make a plain copy (i.e., it need not be endorsed as a true copy by a U.S. consular officer, a U.S. Immigration Officer, or an attorney) of the certified copy, and submit the plain copy of the certified copy to USCIS ;

• If the petitioner or applicant submits a plain copy of the certified copy, the petitioner or applicant MUST retain the certified copy and submit it upon the request of the USCIS officer.

(m) Submitting copies of documents . [Chapter 11.1(m) update effective June 18, 2007.] ....

(1) When Originals Required and Photocopies Permitted . Originals of application and petition forms as well as documents issued to support applications or petitions must be submitted unless previously filed with USCIS. Documents typically submitted as originals include: labor certifications, Form DS-2019 ( http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/forms/forms_1342.html ), medical examinations, affidavits, formal consultations, letters of current employment and other statements.

Official documents issued by USCIS or by the Immigration and Naturalization Service need not be submitted as originals unless required by USCIS.

For other forms of evidence, unless otherwise required by applicable regulations or form instructions, a legible photocopy of any other supporting document may be submitted. Applicants and petitioners need only submit those original documents necessary to support the benefit sought. However, original documents submitted when not required will remain a part of the record.

(2) When USCIS Keeps Originals or Requests Originals . As a general rule, applicants and petitioners should be allowed to keep originals unless the originals are required by regulation to be submitted. If there is reason to question the authenticity of the original document for which a photocopy has been submitted, USCIS may then request the original document. . . .

(4) Requested Original or Copy of Document Not Submitted . If an applicant or petitioner does not submit the requested original or copy of the document by the deadline, USCIS may deny or revoke the application or petition. 8 CFR 103.2(B)(4) , (5) .

http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.jsp?...8ce159d286150e2

Edited August 18, 2009 by Kathryn41