Renewing Cdn passport WHILE residing in the USA

[warlord 72]

Not sure about looking favorably on one passport or another, never heard that one from anyone before. I do know that some countries though have visa requirements to enter and some countries are excluded. So in some instances a country will allow Canadians in without a visa permit, while Americans would need a visa permit and visa versa.

One example is Romania where you would want to travel on your US passport as there is no visa requirement to enter, but there is for Canadians (or it used to be anyways).

Another example would be certain terrorist cells with kidnappings etc (like in India recently) where they want "Americans" so showing a Canadian passport you might get out alive.

A problem with carrying two passports though is some nations (African) and others might not allow that and deny you entry or think you are planning on some scheme and detain you (you do not want to be detained in an Algerian prison for example). So you just really need to watch out where you travel and what passport you should bring if you continue to renew them both.

I've talked to my relatives that hold dual and friends, and for the most part most just have the US passport and don't bother with the Canadian one anymore and haven't had any issues around the world. So that's what I'll most likely be doing myself.

But it's all up to you...

[DeadPoolX 9]

Peter Jennings was an international reporter for how many years for a US network? He NEVER travelled on his US passport. He always used his Canadian passport when out on assignment, and for personal travel.

Peter Jennings didn't become a naturalized U.S. citizen until 2003 and he died in 2005. So I don't think he had much of a chance to use his U.S. passport.

Deadpool, I think you are off the mark on this one. I sincerely doubt that the passport application process in Canada has any basis in the immigration process - I am unsure how you can even make that connection?

I might be completely off. I don't know. I just can't figure out why gaining a passport in Canada is generally so much more difficult than in the United States. There's no logic to it. Of course... it's within the hands of the government, so maybe logic isn't allowed.

While I am in agreement with the gist of what Reba has said and can honestly say that, in my travels, I have experienced similar incidents, I really do want to give my thoughts on this. We have all married Americans so we're in agreement that they're not all bad. The thing which bothers me about generalizations is that some groups and countries and/or their peoples will interact, or hear about an interaction, with a less-than-appealing type of individual who happened to be from the US, and conclude that all Americans are such-and-such. In addition, the US plays a dominant role on the world stage and, as such, is involved in a lot of armed conflict. (As unpopular as war is, you can guarantee that it has been discussed with the other members of the United Nations prior to, and during, the invasion or peace-keeping of any country.) As a result, Americans are not looked upon too kindly and are treated as such. I say this to say that the American people are not only a victim of generalizations, but they are also a victim of their own governmental policies. Stories like Reba's tend to get relayed again and again. But stories of generous and helpful and really really nice Americans aren't heard. It just won't make the "news". And "news" is what sells.

Absolutely true. Every country in the world is viewed and generalized by how their government acts. That's a shame, since the "average person" in any country probably has little to do with their government's policies.

So much of it is the people of our world who do not agree with American foreign policies and then attribute it to the American people. But part of it, and I must say this, is how I have seen American tourists act when overseas. I remember going to see the Tower of London with a friend many years ago. And there were these Southerners, with massive cameras around their necks and fanny packs around their wastes talking to each other like they wanted the whole world to hear them. Every one was starring at them but yet they didn't quiet down or were not embarrassed. I guess in Europe there is a refinement that doesn't hit all places in the United States (or Canada for that matter...)

We all have a different view to Americans because we live here and we married one. We know that many Americans are intelligent and mannerly people. It's unfortunate that the government has really spoiled their image.

One thing I've never understood is why Americans are sometimes seen unfavorably for acting as their culture dictates? Perhaps visiting Americans should make a better effort to adapt to the country they're visiting, but the reverse is true as well. So many visitors (and illegals) come to the United States on a regular basis and have absolutely no intention of changing their habits or cultural way of behaving. In fact, it's often seen as somewhat xenophobic if Americans don't fully embrace the culture and behavior of any foreigner.

I know many of you have made a concerted effort to live in the U.S., so none of the above is directed at anyone here. It just annoys me when there's poor commentary about American tourists for behaving as they know how and is encouraged in their country, but nothing said about visitors from other nations.

[Reba 2]

So Americans are encouraged by the government to be loud and unruly when they visit foreign nations?

[DeadPoolX 9]

So Americans are encouraged by the government to be loud and unruly when they visit foreign nations?

In a sense, yes, they do. I say this because the U.S. educational system teaches virtually nothing about other cultures and societies between grades 1 to 12. Once a student reaches college, they can take classes on such material, but it's usually optional.

That's not the entire point of my comment, however. I don't understand why it's okay for "anyone else but an American" to act out when in the U.S., but a major ordeal if an American does the same in a foreign nation. Why the double standard?

Edited December 24, 2008 by DeadPoolX

[Cassie 8]

So Americans are encouraged by the government to be loud and unruly when they visit foreign nations?

In a sense, yes, they do. I say this because the U.S. educational system teaches virtually nothing about other cultures and societies between grades 1 to 12. Once a student reaches college, they can take classes on such material, but it's usually optional.

That's not the entire point of my comment, however. I don't understand why it's okay for "anyone else but an American" to act out when in the U.S., but a major ordeal if an American does the same in a foreign nation. Why the double standard?

Speaking as someone who worked in jobs for ten years that dealt directly with visitors from all over the world, I had the most trouble on the whole with American tourists, and it wasn't just with one or two of them a day, it was with the vast majority per day. Quite honestly, it was a very rare occasion when we had trouble or atititude with someone who was not from the US. So for me, it's not a double standard or holding US visitors to a higher standard of conduct (I would get just as frustrated with someone rude from Timbuktu as I would with someone from Texas), but reality.

[Reba 2]

I dunno Deadpool, I've never heard horror stories about dealing with rude foreign tourists here in the US other than the Japanese clogging up sidewalks while they all stand around taking photos. And perhaps the drunken snowbirds in Florida for spring break. What specifically are you refering to?

[DeadPoolX 9]

I dunno Deadpool, I've never heard horror stories about dealing with rude foreign tourists here in the US other than the Japanese clogging up sidewalks while they all stand around taking photos. And perhaps the drunken snowbirds in Florida for spring break. What specifically are you refering to?

I don't need to refer to one group specifically. Nearly anyone who comes to the U.S. (on a temporary basis or not) expects and often demands that the U.S. cater to them, instead of the other way around.

But... if you want examples of other "loud and unruly" tourists in general, there's the British (just like Americans, they want everything as they know it in foreign countries and are often quite rude), the Greeks, Italians and Indian (all of whom can be extremely loud when together). There's also plenty of rude Canadians, as well (despite what many here want to believe).

No, I'm not judging the above without any knowledge. When my wife was studying in England, she often found the above to true (more often than not, anyway). Was everyone like that? Of course not. But she also said she met quite a few nice people, including those from all the countries I mentioned above and those from the United States. Yes, I said nice and very considerate Americans. Imagine that -- the stereotype isn't set in stone.

The point is that anyone who says the people from their country can't be rude, obnoxious and loud is living a lie. A very pretty and self-serving lie, perhaps, but a lie nonetheless. Anyone, regardless of their country of origin, can be a lousy tourist. It really has very little to do with where they're from, but how they choose to act in the presence of others and in specific situations.

I think we'd all be better off if we judged each scenario as they happened, instead of relying on stereotypes. Hopefully this message will get across and make some here realize that simply because a few may act a certain way (and those actions get publicized), that doesn't account for everyone from any group.

[Reba 2]

I said nice and very considerate Americans. Imagine that -- the stereotype isn't set in stone.

I never said it was. You though said you are encouraged by your government to be so. So perhaps it is at least on paper somewhere in your Born American handbook

And yeah, there are tonnes and tonnes of incredibly rude Canadians. The myth that we're all nice and tidy is just that, a myth, of which I am well aware, I did live there for 37 years after all . And I don't think anyone here has said anything otherwise. However, it still remains true that for some reason, Americans are just not looked upon as favourably in foreign nations as Canadians are.

I know plenty of nice and polite Americans, Italians, British, Greek, and Indians. And I also know plenty of rude and obnoxious ones as well.

People are a world wide epidemic.

[trailmix 77]

But... if you want examples of other "loud and unruly" tourists in general, there's the British (just like Americans, they want everything as they know it in foreign countries and are often quite rude), the Greeks, Italians and Indian (all of whom can be extremely loud when together). There's also plenty of rude Canadians, as well (despite what many here want to believe).

See that part I have bolded above Deadpool? It's that kind of comment from you that I find so offensive. You imply that you are going to 'enlighten' people in this forum with your vast knowledge of Canadians.

We all know that there are rude Canadians - well if anyone doesn't then they are living in an igloo. This is not news. The fact that Canadians as tourists are not stereotypically identified as obnoxious is good for us, warranted or not.

Some Americans are loud and demanding - these are the ones that people spot in foreign countries. If an American is being quiet and polite, no one is going to notice them. That's just the way it is. There is a stereotype - oh well, that happens, ideally stereotypes would be broken down but it seems it is human nature.

As for this comment:

"Nearly anyone who comes to the U.S. (on a temporary basis or not) expects and often demands that the U.S. cater to them, instead of the other way around".

Can you say - broad generalization? ie: stereotype ie: I see a lot of your statements as pretty hypocritical.

[Flames9_RN 358]

I must admit, I don't care for Deadppols writing style at times, BUT it is probably that, just his style of writing. It is hard to get one's "true" point across in a forum. We do not see one's body language (which is huge) nor do we hear one's tone (again, very huge) We all have different experiences with dealing with people from different countries, some positive, some bad. We all like to think we Cdns are perfect and we know that is not true (only Saskatchewaner's are,lol) And I know we all like to think that since this is the Canadian forum, we can say whatever we wish about other countries and that only Canadian eyes are viewing, but that isn't the case. Everyone is entitled to our opinion, and sometimes they way we all phrase things isn't appropriate, we could do it better, but this is a forum, not a school paper, so we tend to just peck away at the keypad, and then hit "add reply" without checking for spelling mistakes, or take a step back and ask ourselves how will someone else perceive my reply? We just hit the button like a monkey waiting for their banana after completing a task. So lets all take a step back at the personal attacks (which is very little on this Cdn forum) and consider the whole picture. I'm sure if we all sat down at a pub, we could have a great conversation about this topic (and others) Happy New Years!!

[Caladan 19]

I've heard it said that the stereotype of the rude, obnoxious American tourist is partly due to American tourists being boorish, but also British tourists being mistaken for Americans (Anglophone is Anglophone, and not everyone is always clear who is who), and partly due to American foreign policy/international reputation. Canadians have a different reputation; it results in different expectations.

I also think that trailmix is right regarding confirmation bias: it's a fairly well-documented psychological/sociological phenomenon that one will notice that which confirms one's stereotypes. So if you believe that Americans are boorish loud tourists, you'll put more weight on the boorish loud American tourists you experience ("see? I knew it!") than your experiences with the nice quiet polite ones.

In any event, I believe that a Canadian citizen would have to enter Canada on their Canadian passport, so that's a reason to keep it renewed, and I believe it's also a little bit easier to stay in the UK and Australia.

[Flames9_RN 358]

No, I belive a Cdn citizen with (obviously) USA citizenship can enter Canada with a USA passport.

[trailmix 77]

I must admit, I don't care for Deadppols writing style at times, BUT it is probably that, just his style of writing. It is hard to get one's "true" point across in a forum. We do not see one's body language (which is huge) nor do we hear one's tone (again, very huge) We all have different experiences with dealing with people from different countries, some positive, some bad. We all like to think we Cdns are perfect and we know that is not true (only Saskatchewaner's Albertan's are,lol) And I know we all like to think that since this is the Canadian forum, we can say whatever we wish about other countries and that only Canadian eyes are viewing, but that isn't the case. Everyone is entitled to our opinion, and sometimes they way we all phrase things isn't appropriate, we could do it better, but this is a forum, not a school paper, so we tend to just peck away at the keypad, and then hit "add reply" without checking for spelling mistakes, or take a step back and ask ourselves how will someone else perceive my reply? We just hit the button like a monkey waiting for their banana after completing a task. So lets all take a step back at the personal attacks (which is very little on this Cdn forum) and consider the whole picture. I'm sure if we all sat down at a pub, we could have a great conversation about this topic (and others) Happy New Years!!

I agree with you to a point.

I actually do, mostly, think about my posts and there are many times I will write something out and not post it - simply because it is not going to add anything to the conversation or because it may be too critical etc. (that's just me, I don't expect or demand anyone else do this - i'm just saying it's what I do)

Yes people from other countries read this forum, no it is not 'Canadians only' and shouldn't be.

Unlike you I am absolutely sure that Deadpool knows exactly what reaction he will get when he posts certain things here and I also believe he enjoys watching the fallout - possibly a good reason why I should stop replying to his posts at all - however, I probably won't.

Edited December 27, 2008 by trailmix

[Flames9_RN 358]

I must admit, I don't care for Deadppols writing style at times, BUT it is probably that, just his style of writing. It is hard to get one's "true" point across in a forum. We do not see one's body language (which is huge) nor do we hear one's tone (again, very huge) We all have different experiences with dealing with people from different countries, some positive, some bad. We all like to think we Cdns are perfect and we know that is not true (only Saskatchewaner's Albertan's are,lol) And I know we all like to think that since this is the Canadian forum, we can say whatever we wish about other countries and that only Canadian eyes are viewing, but that isn't the case. Everyone is entitled to our opinion, and sometimes they way we all phrase things isn't appropriate, we could do it better, but this is a forum, not a school paper, so we tend to just peck away at the keypad, and then hit "add reply" without checking for spelling mistakes, or take a step back and ask ourselves how will someone else perceive my reply? We just hit the button like a monkey waiting for their banana after completing a task. So lets all take a step back at the personal attacks (which is very little on this Cdn forum) and consider the whole picture. I'm sure if we all sat down at a pub, we could have a great conversation about this topic (and others) Happy New Years!!

I agree with you to a point.

I actually do, mostly, think about my posts and there are many times I will write something out and not post it - simply because it is not going to add anything to the conversation or because it may be too critical etc. (that's just me, I don't expect or demand anyone else do this - i'm just saying it's what I do)

Yes people from other countries read this forum, no it is not 'Canadians only' and shouldn't be.

I hear ya trailmix!!! When one posts negative stuff all the time, that poster's comments go by my wayside. Makes one wonder why so much negativity! Oh well, not my problem!!!!

Unlike you I am absolutely sure that Deadpool knows exactly what reaction he will get when he posts certain things here and I also believe he enjoys watching the fallout - possibly a good reason why I should stop replying to his posts at all - however, I probably won't.

[Reba 2]

bananas are not allowed on my diet. Can I have turnips instead please?