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Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Hong Kong
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The Christian Bible didn't exist until some 300-500 yrs. after Christ.

That's not entirely accurate. The Jewish scriptures ("the Law and the Prophets") were completed by two centuries before Christ. The New Testament books, which contain the written proclamation of Christ, were completed by the end of the 1st century. Granted, the individual books of the New Testament were not all universally recognized and then joined with the Old Testament books as a single volume till a few centuries later, but they did all exist within a generation or so of Christ.

Ok, so you are a pre-Biblical Christian?

I'm pointing out that the Christian Faith is not dependent on the Bible, even though many modern Christians have that notion. In a way, their religion is the Bible...mine is not. I think the Bible is inspired by God, but it was written by humans. The concept that it is some edict from God to be taken literally, word for word, is nonsense. If that were true, the Biblical Literists would have a lot of explaining to do.

For me, the Bible is not my religion, it helps me in understanding how I should be living my life as a follower of Christ and helps develop my faith. It's a guidebook to me. I have a responsibility to not take it out of context and to do independent study as to why it says what it says. But that's just me. There are many that take it very literally that pulls it out of context, and which frustrates me to no end.

Fundamentalism is the culprit...I think John Calvin was one of the Founders of Fundamentalist Movement.

Fundamentalism began at the turn of the 20th century, Calvin was several centuries earlier. The Reformation and Fundamentalism are related, but are not the same movement.

Scott - So. California, Lai - Hong Kong

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Optimist: "The glass is half full."

Pessimist: "The glass is half empty."

Scott: "I didn't order this!!!"

"Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God." - Ruth 1:16

"Losing faith in Humanity, one person at a time."

"Do not put your trust in princes, in mortal men, who cannot save." - Ps 146:3

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Vicky >^..^< She came, she loved, and was loved. 1989-07/07/2007

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Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Hong Kong
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12. You mean that following Jesus around predates the new testament by 300 years. "Christianity" as we know it is a "religion of the book" and that book is the bible. Being a follower of Jesus and a Christian are two different things. Although Nietzsche did say that the only Christian there ever was died on the cross 2,000 years ago.

Jesus wasn't a Christian, he was the Christ. Those confess him as the Christ are Christians.

Search it yourself. Explain then how Christianity flourished in the early 1st Century without a Bible declaring it so?

If modern Jews call their ancient scriptures their Bible, that's news to me. From my understanding, there are Books in the Old Testament like Isaiah that the Jewish religion doesn't recognize. When I say Bible in my earlier posts, I'm talking about the one book that was put together and called the Holy Bible...the selection of what Hebrew Scriptures and which Apocrypha would be included. Even among the Christian Bibles, which Books are included vary.

Christianity flourished in the early 1st Century due to the preaching of the Apostles. Their writings (what is now the NT) were circulated while they were alive, but the thinking was that it is better to have the man himself when possible than only his writings. Once the Apostles had all died, their writings became much more important.

As far as I've ever heard, Jews do recognize Isaiah.

Jesus != God ??
Yes.

My head just exploded.

Excuse me while I pick up the debris.

:lol: :lol:

Edited by Scott & Lai

Scott - So. California, Lai - Hong Kong

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Optimist: "The glass is half full."

Pessimist: "The glass is half empty."

Scott: "I didn't order this!!!"

"Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God." - Ruth 1:16

"Losing faith in Humanity, one person at a time."

"Do not put your trust in princes, in mortal men, who cannot save." - Ps 146:3

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IMG_6283c.jpg

Vicky >^..^< She came, she loved, and was loved. 1989-07/07/2007

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Jordan
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Jews recognize the entirety of the old testament. That is where christians got the OT from in the first place. It is callde the Tanakh in Hebrew (Torah, writings, prophets) and is called a Bible by many English speaking Jews. The difference between the Tanakh and the OT is order of the books (OT is chronological, TNK is by grouping of Torah, writer, or prophet), and also OT gives a heading for each minor prophet and the TNK does not seperate them into seperate books. So yes, Jews recognize Isaiah as a major prophet. I haven't studied it, but it sounds rather like the same old anti-semitic rhetoric of a lot of the church from the past.

The reason the apocrypha is called the apocrypha and given a seperate heading is that it is recognized as not being scripture and part of the cannon. So it is left out of some Bibles and in others, either way it's not scripture and that is agreed upon.

Jesus, Yeshua, was a Jew. The scripture that is listed as being "all" "good for study" is the Tanakh. That would be how Christianity did fine without a NT. The NT is just a bunch of Torah commentary and a few accounts of Yeshua's life/miracles/ministry, and then some prophecy. Nothing is new or unique in there that is not in the OT, and even revelation gives us very little that is really new. The end times are already gone over in several OT books.

None of my posts have ever been helpful. Be forewarned.

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Jesus != God ??

Yeah, it gets a bit dicey there.

On one hand, Jesus is the Son of God.

On the other hand, God did not create Jesus. Jesus has always existed, for he is God himself.

So he is God and he is also a man.

Essentially, God used Mary to give birth to himself in human form (using the "Holy Spirit.")

(Kind of like when Jasmine made Cordelia a Higher Being and then sent her back to L.A.

to find comfort in the arms of Connor (when the Beast blotted out the sun), then got her

pregnant, stole Angel's soul so that he would remain Angelus, and persuaded Connor to

kill a virgin girl and use her blood to bless the birth of herself in human form as a full

grown goddess.)

Isn't it amazing?

:wacko:

That analogy makes perfect sense to me. Am I really the only one who "gets it"? :P

Edited by Mags
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Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Hong Kong
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Jesus != God ??

Yeah, it gets a bit dicey there.

On one hand, Jesus is the Son of God.

On the other hand, God did not create Jesus. Jesus has always existed, for he is God himself.

So he is God and he is also a man.

Essentially, God used Mary to give birth to himself in human form (using the "Holy Spirit.")

(Kind of like when Jasmine made Cordelia a Higher Being and then sent her back to L.A.

to find comfort in the arms of Connor (when the Beast blotted out the sun), then got her

pregnant, stole Angel's soul so that he would remain Angelus, and persuaded Connor to

kill a virgin girl and use her blood to bless the birth of herself in human form as a full

grown goddess.)

Isn't it amazing?

:wacko:

That analogy makes perfect sense to me. Am I really the only one who "gets it"? :P

Well, I get the reference ;)

Scott - So. California, Lai - Hong Kong

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Our timeline:

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http://www.amazon.ofoto.com/I.jsp?c=7mj8fg...=0&y=x7fhak

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Optimist: "The glass is half full."

Pessimist: "The glass is half empty."

Scott: "I didn't order this!!!"

"Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God." - Ruth 1:16

"Losing faith in Humanity, one person at a time."

"Do not put your trust in princes, in mortal men, who cannot save." - Ps 146:3

cool.gif

IMG_6283c.jpg

Vicky >^..^< She came, she loved, and was loved. 1989-07/07/2007

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Filed: Country: United Kingdom
Timeline
Jesus != God ??

Yeah, it gets a bit dicey there.

On one hand, Jesus is the Son of God.

On the other hand, God did not create Jesus. Jesus has always existed, for he is God himself.

So he is God and he is also a man.

Essentially, God used Mary to give birth to himself in human form (using the "Holy Spirit.")

(Kind of like when Jasmine made Cordelia a Higher Being and then sent her back to L.A.

to find comfort in the arms of Connor (when the Beast blotted out the sun), then got her

pregnant, stole Angel's soul so that he would remain Angelus, and persuaded Connor to

kill a virgin girl and use her blood to bless the birth of herself in human form as a full

grown goddess.)

Isn't it amazing?

:wacko:

That analogy makes perfect sense to me. Am I really the only one who "gets it"? :P

Well, I get the reference ;)

Plus Angel was awesome. :D

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Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Hong Kong
Timeline
Jesus != God ??

Yeah, it gets a bit dicey there.

On one hand, Jesus is the Son of God.

On the other hand, God did not create Jesus. Jesus has always existed, for he is God himself.

So he is God and he is also a man.

Essentially, God used Mary to give birth to himself in human form (using the "Holy Spirit.")

(Kind of like when Jasmine made Cordelia a Higher Being and then sent her back to L.A.

to find comfort in the arms of Connor (when the Beast blotted out the sun), then got her

pregnant, stole Angel's soul so that he would remain Angelus, and persuaded Connor to

kill a virgin girl and use her blood to bless the birth of herself in human form as a full

grown goddess.)

Isn't it amazing?

:wacko:

That analogy makes perfect sense to me. Am I really the only one who "gets it"? :P

Well, I get the reference ;)

Plus Angel was awesome. :D

Indeed...it ended too soon...

Scott - So. California, Lai - Hong Kong

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Our timeline:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showuser=1032

Our Photos

http://www.amazon.ofoto.com/I.jsp?c=7mj8fg...=0&y=x7fhak

http://www.amazon.ofoto.com/BrowsePhotos.j...z8zadq&Ux=1

Optimist: "The glass is half full."

Pessimist: "The glass is half empty."

Scott: "I didn't order this!!!"

"Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God." - Ruth 1:16

"Losing faith in Humanity, one person at a time."

"Do not put your trust in princes, in mortal men, who cannot save." - Ps 146:3

cool.gif

IMG_6283c.jpg

Vicky >^..^< She came, she loved, and was loved. 1989-07/07/2007

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Filed: Other Country: India
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Yeah Jesus was a Jewish man, and had all the Jewish ppl accepted him as Messiah I don't see why it wouldn't just be called being Jewish instead of Christian. But because the Jewish religion went on, because of rejection of Jesus as Messiah, there was a need to differentiate. Please no one think I am trying to be anti-Jew or something because of what I wrote. I am writing the biblical perspective I have. There is a scripture verse that mentions when the disciples were first referred to as Christians. (Acts 11) So the term Christian definitely predates the printed bible as we have it now.

Married since 9-18-04(All K1 visa & GC details in timeline.)

Ishu tum he mere Prabhu:::Jesus you are my Lord

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