Bush criticizes Arab nations for repression

[Ban Hammer 12,829]

It boggles my mind how W can even stand there and make such comments when he and his administration have done their own "repression of human rights". What in the he*ll do you call Gitmo?????? The fact that this administration has told lie after lie after lie and are not held accountable.......

I cannot even stand to look at his picture without bile rising up in my throat.

It is a FACT that we have not had a worse president throughout history than W. AGH!

carter sure comes to mind......

Bad yes...but I honestly don't think he f*ed up to the degree Bush has.

he did quite a major job on the military by underfunding it. from my perspective, carter was worse in quite a few areas. at least bush didn't sit around and wring his hands when an embassy was taken over.

[SaadBell 0]

Bush is a nightmare; I too think he is one of the worst presidents of all time. Carter, I like Carter, at least he will sit down and talk, also Clinton was excellent in speaking with world leaders. Bush is retarded, he can’t help it, Cheney is just a crook, period, and why might I ask does President Bush’s father, still get briefings? All presidents are entitled to have the briefs, but only one president gets them and that is Bush’s father. We live in America, and by the constitution’s first amendment I have the right to say how I feel about the government. Hilter fought against free speech and would have peopled killed just because they said something he disagreed with. It is time America woke up before we lose our first amendment, because we damn sure lost a ton of right under the Patriot Act. Bush went after Sadam for his daddy, and I am sure daddy was loving every minute of it, why not, they don’t’ have to send their children or the children of the senate and congress to fight. As always, send the poor out to fight their wars, while they make a killing off the war itself.

[sarahaziz 0]

sure I will read it again to try to understand better

Thank you. If you have any questions about what I've said, I'm happy to answer them.

What I was trying to do, and maybe I didn't do such a good job, is point out that - historically - the United States was founded by conservative (extremely conservative) Protestant Christians. It's taken a couple of hundred years to move away from that.

I did post a reply but I guess my computer didn't process it through or what not.

Well actually that quote about America admiring the Middle Easts challenges that was Bush's quote not mine! Probably some confusion - it wasn't my words.

I didn't disagree with you at all actually. America back in the days wow...I would've loved it the way the older generation explains memories to me. That was American brotherhood right there compared to these days.

What I was saying though, there is a growing population of young crowds in the Middle east who (probably a minority I'm speaking of) they want to westernize their countries. To give more freedom to people it can actually hurt a country if you think about it out of context. That could be a big problem in the Middle East region because what religion is followed by majority over there - Islam .

What problems are we facing today - terrorists i.e. Bin Laden sending a video to Bush- If your country embraces Islam we will embrace USA if not we will continue to kill all of you. What are Terrorists aim? to destroy anything Western or "haraam" as they keep in mentality. They are not for anything American, European, Canadian, etc..

American culture it's more free - freedom of speech, women working in businesses being head CEO's there's no limit for women in USA, Homosexual Rights to marry in certain parts (you have em everywhere but it's not legal in Arab countries), etc..

[Ban Hammer 12,829]

rather interesting that bush is "retarded" yet he graduated from harvard.....

[SaadBell 0]

Yes he sure did graduate from Harvard, with a C average. He is not the brightest bulb in the world, to be a normal person to be able to get into Harvard is a feat in itself. My daughter who just graduated from University of Florida would not even try to apply to Harvard and her grade point average is 3.95. If you have enough money and your family members have also went to Harvard, than you are in the house. So the Harvard thing does not wash with me. How about all the business Mr. Bush busted out, also why is his father still getting the briefings? One of the former Harvard Business school professor recalls George W. Bush not just as a terrible student but as spoiled, loutish and a pathological liar. The professor Name is Yoshi Tsurumi, the president was on of the 85 first-year MBA students in Tsurumi's macroeconomic polices and international business class in the fall of 1973 and spring of 1974. Bush got in to Havard on his father's connections for a two year program.

[Ban Hammer 12,829]

so there you go. he has an ivy league diploma, and you and i don't. and plenty of businesses fail don't they? but i know, that detracts from the bush bashing.

[Ihavequestions 419]

I did post a reply but I guess my computer didn't process it through or what not.

Well actually that quote about America admiring the Middle Easts challenges that was Bush's quote not mine! Probably some confusion - it wasn't my words.

I wouldn't have ever used the word "admire." "Appreciate"? Sure.

I didn't disagree with you at all actually.

I didn't think you did.

America back in the days wow...I would've loved it the way the older generation explains memories to me. That was American brotherhood right there compared to these days.

Let me share an old-timer memory with you, if you don't mind.

I graduated from high school 28 years ago. After graduation, I tried college, but my choices (at the time, as I saw them) were limited to teaching, nursing, or being a secretary. Now, know that we had just come out of the Civil Rights movement (my family fled the rioting in Detroit), as well as the Women's Liberation Movement, and the Iranian Hostage Crisis. I was full of hope for my own female future, however the educational opportunites weren't there. Sure, I could have been a teacher, answering to a male principal, or a nurse, answering to a male doctor, or a secretary, answering to a male executive, but, because I paid attention to the world around me, I just didn't want to doooooooo any of that.

So I muddled through with chump jobs and actually fashioned a decent living for myself. However, what was missing was the college degree I always knew I wanted. So, I took two teenagers along with me to university. While I was there, I was in classroom after classroom with brilliant and ambitious young women. Those same young women never - never, never! - knew a life where there wasn't a possibility they could be anything or anybody they wanted to be. Their future was in their own hands, not in someone else's. THAT was when I truly understood and appreciated those who had struggled before me because I wasn't seeing "hope" for a future in these young ladies as it wasn't about hope at all, it was about equality and opportunity being a fact of life. And this is my hope - my dream - for women everywhere. It's because of my own hopes and dreams for my sisters that I decided to become an educator.

Again, if you don't mind, there was another transformation that came out of the Women's Liberation Movement, that being MEN demanding equal rights. Yes, in the female dominated professions (teachers, nurses, and secretaries), men decided if women could do it, they should be able to do it, too. The end result was men working alongside women and demanding changes (wages, working conditions, RESPECT) within those professions and those changes did come to fruition.

What I was saying though, there is a growing population of young crowds in the Middle east who (probably a minority I'm speaking of) they want to westernize their countries. To give more freedom to people it can actually hurt a country if you think about it out of context. That could be a big problem in the Middle East region because what religion is followed by majority over there - Islam .

What problems are we facing today - terrorists i.e. Bin Laden sending a video to Bush- If your country embraces Islam we will embrace USA if not we will continue to kill all of you. What are Terrorists aim? to destroy anything Western or "haraam" as they keep in mentality. They are not for anything American, European, Canadian, etc..

I understand what you're saying, however, I have to take this discussion back to the point that we Americans have faced, fought, and overcome that same struggle internally. One of the most valuable lessons I took with me from university is the knowledge that what they teach in high school text books is not necessarily what really happened. By that I mean we were taught the Puritans fled England because they wanted religious freedom and, in a high school student's mind, that means the freedom of religion (and from religion) that we enjoy today. But that's not what happened. Instead, Puritans fled England because religion wasn't strict/conservative enough for their tastes. It is because of that desire for pure (think "Puritans") Biblical life our nation saw atrocities such as the Salem Witch Trials, censorship, the subjugation of women and children, etc. Puritan Settlers were no different than today's Radical Islam - they both wanted and want the exact same thing: living strictly by a Book in a, yes, male-dominated society.

Thankfully there were a few who were willing to travel abroad and have open dialog during the Enlightenment. Had that not happened, I believe, we would be wearing long black dresses with white collars and bonnets to this very day.

I believe that's what happening in the middle east. The advent of the internet made the world smaller and one no longer has to take an ocean journey (for months) to interact with another. I honestly believe the middle east is very much on the verge of experiencing its own Revolution.

American culture it's more free - freedom of speech, women working in businesses being head CEO's there's no limit for women in USA, Homosexual Rights to marry in certain parts (you have em everywhere but it's not legal in Arab countries), etc..

I don't know that it's necessarily more freedom as much as it the acquisition of the ability to choose. That's what's missing in those hard core Islamic nations - choices.

[jundp 191]

so there you go. he has an ivy league diploma, and you and i don't. and plenty of businesses fail don't they? but i know, that detracts from the bush bashing.

Ok, personally, I dont care where he (or any other prez) went to school, but I have to say that just because someone went to a school that was established in the colonial period and is known for snobbery and social elitism, doesn't make him better than you or me. I was accepted into Princeton but couldn't afford the tuition, even with financial aid. I just wanted to see if I could get in (although on a side note, I did NOT get into Tulane, which is where I really wanted to go). I don't think an Ivy League degree makes someone superior.

Besides, how many presidents went to Ivy Leagues schools for at least one degree?

I have more respect for Lynne Cheney with her Phd in Brit Lit (not from an Ivy League school) and her work as a writer and the former head of the NEH. That impresses me.

I forgot now why I started ranting...

[Nagishkaw 510]

I did post a reply but I guess my computer didn't process it through or what not.

Well actually that quote about America admiring the Middle Easts challenges that was Bush's quote not mine! Probably some confusion - it wasn't my words.

I wouldn't have ever used the word "admire." "Appreciate"? Sure.

I didn't disagree with you at all actually.

I didn't think you did.

America back in the days wow...I would've loved it the way the older generation explains memories to me. That was American brotherhood right there compared to these days.

Let me share an old-timer memory with you, if you don't mind.

I graduated from high school 28 years ago. After graduation, I tried college, but my choices (at the time, as I saw them) were limited to teaching, nursing, or being a secretary. Now, know that we had just come out of the Civil Rights movement (my family fled the rioting in Detroit), as well as the Women's Liberation Movement, and the Iranian Hostage Crisis. I was full of hope for my own female future, however the educational opportunites weren't there. Sure, I could have been a teacher, answering to a male principal, or a nurse, answering to a male doctor, or a secretary, answering to a male executive, but, because I paid attention to the world around me, I just didn't want to doooooooo any of that.

So I muddled through with chump jobs and actually fashioned a decent living for myself. However, what was missing was the college degree I always knew I wanted. So, I took two teenagers along with me to university. While I was there, I was in classroom after classroom with brilliant and ambitious young women. Those same young women never - never, never! - knew a life where there wasn't a possibility they could be anything or anybody they wanted to be. Their future was in their own hands, not in someone else's. THAT was when I truly understood and appreciated those who had struggled before me because I wasn't seeing "hope" for a future in these young ladies as it wasn't about hope at all, it was about equality and opportunity being a fact of life. And this is my hope - my dream - for women everywhere. It's because of my own hopes and dreams for my sisters that I decided to become an educator.

Again, if you don't mind, there was another transformation that came out of the Women's Liberation Movement, that being MEN demanding equal rights. Yes, in the female dominated professions (teachers, nurses, and secretaries), men decided if women could do it, they should be able to do it, too. The end result was men working alongside women and demanding changes (wages, working conditions, RESPECT) within those professions and those changes did come to fruition.

What I was saying though, there is a growing population of young crowds in the Middle east who (probably a minority I'm speaking of) they want to westernize their countries. To give more freedom to people it can actually hurt a country if you think about it out of context. That could be a big problem in the Middle East region because what religion is followed by majority over there - Islam .

What problems are we facing today - terrorists i.e. Bin Laden sending a video to Bush- If your country embraces Islam we will embrace USA if not we will continue to kill all of you. What are Terrorists aim? to destroy anything Western or "haraam" as they keep in mentality. They are not for anything American, European, Canadian, etc..

I understand what you're saying, however, I have to take this discussion back to the point that we Americans have faced, fought, and overcome that same struggle internally. One of the most valuable lessons I took with me from university is the knowledge that what they teach in high school text books is not necessarily what really happened. By that I mean we were taught the Puritans fled England because they wanted religious freedom and, in a high school student's mind, that means the freedom of religion (and from religion) that we enjoy today. But that's not what happened. Instead, Puritans fled England because religion wasn't strict/conservative enough for their tastes. It is because of that desire for pure (think "Puritans") Biblical life our nation saw atrocities such as the Salem Witch Trials, censorship, the subjugation of women and children, etc. Puritan Settlers were no different than today's Radical Islam - they both wanted and want the exact same thing: living strictly by a Book in a, yes, male-dominated society.

Thankfully there were a few who were willing to travel abroad and have open dialog during the Enlightenment. Had that not happened, I believe, we would be wearing long black dresses with white collars and bonnets to this very day.

I believe that's what happening in the middle east. The advent of the internet made the world smaller and one no longer has to take an ocean journey (for months) to interact with another. I honestly believe the middle east is very much on the verge of experiencing its own Revolution.

American culture it's more free - freedom of speech, women working in businesses being head CEO's there's no limit for women in USA, Homosexual Rights to marry in certain parts (you have em everywhere but it's not legal in Arab countries), etc..

I don't know that it's necessarily more freedom as much as it the acquisition of the ability to choose. That's what's missing in those hard core Islamic nations - choices.

NM.........

Edited May 20, 2008 by Nagishkaw

[Ban Hammer 12,829]

so there you go. he has an ivy league diploma, and you and i don't. and plenty of businesses fail don't they? but i know, that detracts from the bush bashing.

Ok, personally, I dont care where he (or any other prez) went to school, but I have to say that just because someone went to a school that was established in the colonial period and is known for snobbery and social elitism, doesn't make him better than you or me. I was accepted into Princeton but couldn't afford the tuition, even with financial aid. I just wanted to see if I could get in (although on a side note, I did NOT get into Tulane, which is where I really wanted to go). I don't think an Ivy League degree makes someone superior.

Besides, how many presidents went to Ivy Leagues schools for at least one degree?

I have more respect for Lynne Cheney with her Phd in Brit Lit (not from an Ivy League school) and her work as a writer and the former head of the NEH. That impresses me.

I forgot now why I started ranting...

so meanwhile, back at the farm...........

[SaadBell 0]

Why does daddy Bush need to have the briefs? No other president needs them, why does big daddy need them?

[Ban Hammer 12,829]

Why does daddy Bush need to have the briefs? No other president needs them, why does big daddy need them?

not true. all former presidents have access to them.

[SaadBell 0]

Correct, but only one really demands them, but Daddy Bush, now why is that??????????????????? Why did daddy Bush still do business with Saudi and sit on the board, knowing the Bin Laden is receiving funding from that country. So many questions, never do I get an answer from anyone. If it was world war two, I am the president's father and I am hanging out in Germany with Hilter's posse, you better believe someone would say something. The whole deal boils down to making money and making a lot of money. Also when Fox called the election, it was Bush’s first cousin who was at Fox news. Of course Daddy Bush had the Supreme Court so the election was taken, still makes my blood boil. Shame shame. When none of the senators came to the defense of the congress, which is seared in my mind now and forever, Why? My only hope is that this will end soon, and we will get Obama in the house. Do you know that when Bush was suppose to do the traditional walk to the white house, he had to stop that cause the American people were too angry, never had they ever in the time of history did any president ever had that happen. Before 9-11, George Bush was on vacation 42% of the time, maybe he should have been watching for America, but I guess golf is more important.

[Ban Hammer 12,829]

Correct, but only one really demands them, but Daddy Bush, now why is that??????????????????? Why did daddy Bush still do business with Saudi and sit on the board, knowing the Bin Laden is receiving funding from that country. So many questions, never do I get an answer from anyone. If it was world war two, I am the president's father and I am hanging out in Germany with Hilter's posse, you better believe someone would say something. The whole deal boils down to making money and making a lot of money. Also when Fox called the election, it was Bush’s first cousin who was at Fox news. Of course Daddy Bush had the Supreme Court so the election was taken, still makes my blood boil. Shame shame. When none of the senators came to the defense of the congress, which is seared in my mind now and forever, Why? My only hope is that this will end soon, and we will get Obama in the house. Do you know that when Bush was suppose to do the traditional walk to the white house, he had to stop that cause the American people were too angry, never had they ever in the time of history did any president ever had that happen. Before 9-11, George Bush was on vacation 42% of the time, maybe he should have been watching for America, but I guess golf is more important.

oh here we go with the hitler comparisons

do you not think that carter wants them too, especially when he takes trips to mena? why is the senior bush being castigated for his business dealings with saudi arabia? and as i understand it, bin laden's been cut off from the bin laden group financially. you really should get some help with that bds of yours.

Edited May 20, 2008 by charlesandnessa

[jundp 191]

so there you go. he has an ivy league diploma, and you and i don't. and plenty of businesses fail don't they? but i know, that detracts from the bush bashing.

Ok, personally, I dont care where he (or any other prez) went to school, but I have to say that just because someone went to a school that was established in the colonial period and is known for snobbery and social elitism, doesn't make him better than you or me. I was accepted into Princeton but couldn't afford the tuition, even with financial aid. I just wanted to see if I could get in (although on a side note, I did NOT get into Tulane, which is where I really wanted to go). I don't think an Ivy League degree makes someone superior.

Besides, how many presidents went to Ivy Leagues schools for at least one degree?

I have more respect for Lynne Cheney with her Phd in Brit Lit (not from an Ivy League school) and her work as a writer and the former head of the NEH. That impresses me.

I forgot now why I started ranting...

so meanwhile, back at the farm...........

Yes well, the point still remains that there's no real reason to be impressed just because he spent a couple of years at Harvard. It doesn't make him more qualified/a better person/worthy of worship, etc.