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U.S. soldier Uses Quran For Target Practice; Military Apologizes

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I agree. I don't think "it's just a book get over it" is right. Of course it's offensive to those who practice that religion. Yes, it's a book, but it's God's Holy Word to the Muslims.

Suppose someone burned an American flag....oh wait, people have done that already and the country was in uproar over it. But "it's a flag, get over it" would be heinous to say.

I may not be a Muslim, but that doesn't mean that I should disrespect their holy book.

Men like this soldier are, IMHO, just as bad as Islamic extremists.

yeah, i can see the comparison of him shooting a book to killing people with suicide bombs, rocket attacks, or airplanes into buildings :rolleyes:

as wideawake stated, his career has taken a turn for the worse. he's gonna be the flavor of the month for a long time in his unit - i.e. on the first sergeant's chit detail list.

The mentality of someone who thinks this is acceptable is no different from the mentality of an Islamic extremist who feels the same disrespect towards Christianity. I did NOT say "suicide bomber" I said "extremist." Just like an extremist Christian thinks it's acceptable to punish the abortion doctor. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think of going from shooting the book, which is disrespecting all that it stands for, to shooting the person who believes the words in that book.

And yes, his career has taken a turn for the worse. Perhaps it was poor judgment and he'll pay for it forever. I'm the daughter of a career Air Force man who did 3 tours in Viet Nam. I am somewhat aware of the way the military handles these transgressons, but the basic principles do remain the same in my eyes. Poor judgment, stupidity, Christian fanatacism, I'm better than they are mentality. Whatever it is. It's extremism. And it is the same.

well that in bold is generally what extremists do, ain't it - bomb someone?

Charles, forgive me for being nerdy here, but I am an English teacher. An "extremist" is one who goes to extremes esp. in political or regligious beliefs, or who conducts himself/herself outside of the moral norm. So yes, it could be someone who is a suicide bomber, or it could be someone who writes expletives and shoots bullets through someone else's Holy Book. Because that person is, in essence, directing his hatred or actions "outside the moral norm" at the group of people who practice that religion.

Not every extremist bombs people. Hatred, violence, and cruelty can happen in many "extremes."

We can go head to head semantically here if you want...But please don't put words in my mouth.

i don't consider someone shooting bullets through any book as an extremist. but it is fun yanking your chain :D

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If he wasn't trying to make a statement, why didn't he use the bible or any other book?

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I took the time to read this video. To answer the question of why I don't feel inclined to believe that the Muslim faith is peaceful all I need to do is watch what so many Muslim people do. To be sure, there are peaceful Muslim's, but to suggest Islam brings only a message of peace to the world is so far beyond belief as to suggest to me how persons of that faith can be bent like Osama Bin Laden.

What the soldier did was stupid, but since there was no Muslim person holding the Quaran at the time he shot it up, the reaction his act is being given seems to be a bit beyond the actual level of what he did. If this particular book was hand written by the prophet Mohamed[sp] then it might be a different story as well.

It would be a much better world without religion. End of story for me.

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I dunno - its not justifiable however you look at it.

More specifically, if we consider the "victory at any cost" mantra that seems to be so popular with the war-supporters, taking a "so what" attitude to this kind of thing iis just bizarre - but it does go some way to justify the popular idea (over there at least) of American arrogance.

Lets not beat around the bush - what this soldier did is a grotesque insult, not only of the religion but also the entire culture of a people we are supposedly here to help. Obviously this is pretty minor as things go - but lets not go around trying to make it out to be something other than it is.

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Muslims who kill other Muslims for being the wrong kind of Muslim is 'grotesque.' Shooting a Qua ran, or Bible, or 'insert religious icon here' is perhaps dumb. To me there is a huge difference. And if someone wants to shoot my copy of the Qua ran, or Bible vs. shooting me or a member of my family, I would choose the former.

Respect is something that should be earned, not demanded.

I respect anyones right to believe in anything they want to believe in. But for 'the entire Muslim world' to take offense at what was essentially merely a stupid thing to do to a man made, inanimate object, seems to blow the act out of all proportion to what it was. Especially in light of the actual atrocities which have occurred, and are occurring in Iraq and the entire Middle East region.

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Muslims who kill other Muslims for being the wrong kind of Muslim is 'grotesque.' Shooting a Qua ran, or Bible, or 'insert religious icon here' is perhaps dumb. To me there is a huge difference. And if someone wants to shoot my copy of the Qua ran, or Bible vs. shooting me or a member of my family, I would choose the former.

Respect is something that should be earned, not demanded.

I respect anyones right to believe in anything they want to believe in. But for 'the entire Muslim world' to take offense at what was essentially merely a stupid thing to do to a man made, inanimate object, seems to blow the act out of all proportion to what it was. Especially in light of the actual atrocities which have occurred, and are occurring in Iraq and the entire Middle East region.

I disagree about "respect". It isn't a commodity to be earned and awarded - it should be freely given (without condition). After all - treating others as you'd like to be treated isn't an alien concept. In that respect there's nothing respectful about abusing the locals (and uploading it to youtube) or shooting holes in someone else's holy book. Nor is "but what so and so does is worse" a particularly good argument to deflect criticism in that respect.

I would also point out that generally speaking we're responsible for what "we" do, rather than what others do - when one of our soldiers does something stupid like this, it reflects on both the service and the mission, whether we want to admit it or not. Isn't this the reasoning behind "dishonorable discharge"?

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I agree. I don't think "it's just a book get over it" is right. Of course it's offensive to those who practice that religion. Yes, it's a book, but it's God's Holy Word to the Muslims.

Suppose someone burned an American flag....oh wait, people have done that already and the country was in uproar over it. But "it's a flag, get over it" would be heinous to say.

I may not be a Muslim, but that doesn't mean that I should disrespect their holy book.

Men like this soldier are, IMHO, just as bad as Islamic extremists.

yeah, i can see the comparison of him shooting a book to killing people with suicide bombs, rocket attacks, or airplanes into buildings :rolleyes:

as wideawake stated, his career has taken a turn for the worse. he's gonna be the flavor of the month for a long time in his unit - i.e. on the first sergeant's chit detail list.

The mentality of someone who thinks this is acceptable is no different from the mentality of an Islamic extremist who feels the same disrespect towards Christianity. I did NOT say "suicide bomber" I said "extremist." Just like an extremist Christian thinks it's acceptable to punish the abortion doctor. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think of going from shooting the book, which is disrespecting all that it stands for, to shooting the person who believes the words in that book.

And yes, his career has taken a turn for the worse. Perhaps it was poor judgment and he'll pay for it forever. I'm the daughter of a career Air Force man who did 3 tours in Viet Nam. I am somewhat aware of the way the military handles these transgressons, but the basic principles do remain the same in my eyes. Poor judgment, stupidity, Christian fanatacism, I'm better than they are mentality. Whatever it is. It's extremism. And it is the same.

well that in bold is generally what extremists do, ain't it - bomb someone?

Charles, forgive me for being nerdy here, but I am an English teacher. An "extremist" is one who goes to extremes esp. in political or regligious beliefs, or who conducts himself/herself outside of the moral norm. So yes, it could be someone who is a suicide bomber, or it could be someone who writes expletives and shoots bullets through someone else's Holy Book. Because that person is, in essence, directing his hatred or actions "outside the moral norm" at the group of people who practice that religion.

Not every extremist bombs people. Hatred, violence, and cruelty can happen in many "extremes."

We can go head to head semantically here if you want...But please don't put words in my mouth.

No offense, but you misspelled religious.

Bwahahahahaha. I did :) But I think from now on I am going to say "regligious" just because it's got a nice ring to it.

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I agree. I don't think "it's just a book get over it" is right. Of course it's offensive to those who practice that religion. Yes, it's a book, but it's God's Holy Word to the Muslims.

Suppose someone burned an American flag....oh wait, people have done that already and the country was in uproar over it. But "it's a flag, get over it" would be heinous to say.

I may not be a Muslim, but that doesn't mean that I should disrespect their holy book.

Men like this soldier are, IMHO, just as bad as Islamic extremists.

yeah, i can see the comparison of him shooting a book to killing people with suicide bombs, rocket attacks, or airplanes into buildings :rolleyes:

as wideawake stated, his career has taken a turn for the worse. he's gonna be the flavor of the month for a long time in his unit - i.e. on the first sergeant's chit detail list.

The mentality of someone who thinks this is acceptable is no different from the mentality of an Islamic extremist who feels the same disrespect towards Christianity. I did NOT say "suicide bomber" I said "extremist." Just like an extremist Christian thinks it's acceptable to punish the abortion doctor. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think of going from shooting the book, which is disrespecting all that it stands for, to shooting the person who believes the words in that book.

And yes, his career has taken a turn for the worse. Perhaps it was poor judgment and he'll pay for it forever. I'm the daughter of a career Air Force man who did 3 tours in Viet Nam. I am somewhat aware of the way the military handles these transgressons, but the basic principles do remain the same in my eyes. Poor judgment, stupidity, Christian fanatacism, I'm better than they are mentality. Whatever it is. It's extremism. And it is the same.

well that in bold is generally what extremists do, ain't it - bomb someone?

Charles, forgive me for being nerdy here, but I am an English teacher. An "extremist" is one who goes to extremes esp. in political or regligious beliefs, or who conducts himself/herself outside of the moral norm. So yes, it could be someone who is a suicide bomber, or it could be someone who writes expletives and shoots bullets through someone else's Holy Book. Because that person is, in essence, directing his hatred or actions "outside the moral norm" at the group of people who practice that religion.

Not every extremist bombs people. Hatred, violence, and cruelty can happen in many "extremes."

We can go head to head semantically here if you want...But please don't put words in my mouth.

No offense, but you misspelled religious.

Bwahahahahaha. I did :) But I think from now on I am going to say "regligious" just because it's got a nice ring to it.

Hey if someone else can get away with saying Nucular for 8 years why not.... ;)

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You've got to admit that in a country where religion is very influential both culturally and politically that this was a pretty stupid thing to do.

It sure isn't how one would go about wining the hearts and minds. ;)

well you don't win a war by winning the hearts and minds of your enemies, ie; Vietnam. You win a war by making their cities look like Berlin, Dresden, Nagasaki and Heroshimo.

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Muslims who kill other Muslims for being the wrong kind of Muslim is 'grotesque.' Shooting a Qua ran, or Bible, or 'insert religious icon here' is perhaps dumb. To me there is a huge difference. And if someone wants to shoot my copy of the Qua ran, or Bible vs. shooting me or a member of my family, I would choose the former.

Respect is something that should be earned, not demanded.

I respect anyones right to believe in anything they want to believe in. But for 'the entire Muslim world' to take offense at what was essentially merely a stupid thing to do to a man made, inanimate object, seems to blow the act out of all proportion to what it was. Especially in light of the actual atrocities which have occurred, and are occurring in Iraq and the entire Middle East region.

Well said.

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You've got to admit that in a country where religion is very influential both culturally and politically that this was a pretty stupid thing to do.

It sure isn't how one would go about wining the hearts and minds. ;)

well you don't win a war by winning the hearts and minds of your enemies, ie; Vietnam. You win a war by making their cities look like Berlin, Dresden, Nagasaki and Heroshimo.

Heroshimo? :blink:

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Is throwing it in the garbage okay? Then have it plowed under at the landfill via a D-9 cat. No big deal,just more religous drivel and over sensitivity.

"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."- Ayn Rand

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Is throwing it in the garbage okay? Then have it plowed under at the landfill via a D-9 cat. No big deal,just more religous drivel and over sensitivity.

The insult goes just a little beyond the extremists doesn't it. In point of fact that attitude really illustrates the problem here.

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Is throwing it in the garbage okay? Then have it plowed under at the landfill via a D-9 cat. No big deal,just more religous drivel and over sensitivity.

The insult goes just a little beyond the extremists doesn't it. In point of fact that attitude really illustrates the problem here.

I see, insults are fine as long as you get praise for them ;)

"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."- Ayn Rand

“Your freedom to be you includes my freedom to be free from you.”

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Is throwing it in the garbage okay? Then have it plowed under at the landfill via a D-9 cat. No big deal,just more religous drivel and over sensitivity.

The insult goes just a little beyond the extremists doesn't it. In point of fact that attitude really illustrates the problem here.

I see, insults are fine as long as you get praise for them ;)

I'm sure someone somewhere saw the funny side to this. Even if it were only you.

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