Hillary: Those who want to deport illegals are "living in some other universe"

[kaydee457 13]

Those with criminal records will not be able to get legal status and their numbers will dwindle through deportation and attrition.

That sounds a lot like the la-la land that Shrillery was referring to. If you think that the 12-14 million are going to dwindle, then reality isn't setting in. In my opinion, its very jingoistic to say they are cutting in-line and not waiting their turn, but come on, 12-14 MILLION. You simply cannot get that many people to leave. Securing the border is a good step toward trying to make sure that the 12-14 figure doesn't increase. But the fact remains the government simply doesn't have the resources to deport those who are already here.

And who says that the only other alternative is to acquiesce and reward them with "a path to citizenship"?

There are other alternatives such as leaving their status in limbo, enforce employment laws to further put pressure on them and you'll see a good number of them just leave......or better yet move on to Canada, you know, free social services...

It's the families with "anchor children" that are the hardest to deal with humanely.

Closing off the border is imperative.

[no name 1]

I don't think anyone can claim to speak for America - but you've got to admit that its a little strange that major candidates are not taking the sort of strong, draconian stand on this issue that many would like. Got to wonder why that is - whether the folks are not listening to the people, or that simply its not that big a priority to many people.

I don't know what the answer is - have to wait until the election campaign starts in earnest to see what the major issues the candidates choose to campaign on.

My guess however, is that the country's economy will be foremost in people's minds when they cast their ballots, rather than immigration.

Economy (& jobs being taken from USCs) goes hand in hand with immigration....

Both Hillary & Obama spoke to that last night.

[Peikko 1,575]

[no name 1]

Those with criminal records will not be able to get legal status and their numbers will dwindle through deportation and attrition.

That sounds a lot like the la-la land that Shrillery was referring to. If you think that the 12-14 million are going to dwindle, then reality isn't setting in. In my opinion, its very jingoistic to say they are cutting in-line and not waiting their turn, but come on, 12-14 MILLION. You simply cannot get that many people to leave. Securing the border is a good step toward trying to make sure that the 12-14 figure doesn't increase. But the fact remains the government simply doesn't have the resources to deport those who are already here.

But then what people always forget, is half of them, never came through the border illegally.

Deporting 12-14 million people is unrealistic. Can we even do that, without seriously impeding privacy for all people in the US?

Restricting ability to work and live, wont send many of them home. Even the underground economy in the US can be better than what they have to go home too. Since they wont turn to the police, there are many who would take advantage of a work force, that they could effectively employ for almost free.

Does anybody have data on % of illegal immigrant with income from underground economy and income working for companies who do not bother checking their employment auth (despite lack of SSN)?

I suspect most employers do check ID, but it's easy to get fake IDs, and employers are not allowed to question ID validity. I know a manager of a local fast food place and I asked him. He said yeah, he knows a lot of the IDs are fake, but that's not his problem. If he checks the ID he has complied with the law.

Perhaps.

Most new laws being passed are specific about the reqs. See below for new Indiana bill.

Businesses would be exempt from prosecution if they use the federal government’s E-Verify system, an online program that verifies whether a worker is legal. Some have complained that the system does not work well, but the Department of Homeland Security defends it.

Senate Bill 335 in its present form would allow the attorney general’s office and local prosecutors to investigate written complaints against businesses accused of hiring illegal immigrants. Employers found to have violated the law face a three-tier punishment system: warning, suspension and revocation of its license to operate.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't think anyone can claim to speak for America - but you've got to admit that its a little strange that major candidates are not taking the sort of strong, draconian stand on this issue that many would like. Got to wonder why that is - whether the folks are not listening to the people, or that simply its not that big a priority to many people.

I don't know what the answer is - have to wait until the election campaign starts in earnest to see what the major issues the candidates choose to campaign on.

My guess however, is that the country's economy will be foremost in people's minds when they cast their ballots, rather than immigration.

Economy (& jobs being taken from USCs) goes hand in hand with immigration....

Both Hillary & Obama spoke to that last night.

Perhaps - but neither of them seem to have what could even be remotely described as a clear, "Zero Tolerance" approach to the issue. Of the two Dem candidates only Obama seems to have the stronger position - but both are remarkably inconsistent in terms of a coherent national strategy...

[SteveLaura 0]

With a Venn Diagram?! Oh my! Major kudos.

[no name 1]

I don't think anyone can claim to speak for America - but you've got to admit that its a little strange that major candidates are not taking the sort of strong, draconian stand on this issue that many would like. Got to wonder why that is - whether the folks are not listening to the people, or that simply its not that big a priority to many people.

I don't know what the answer is - have to wait until the election campaign starts in earnest to see what the major issues the candidates choose to campaign on.

My guess however, is that the country's economy will be foremost in people's minds when they cast their ballots, rather than immigration.

Economy (& jobs being taken from USCs) goes hand in hand with immigration....

Both Hillary & Obama spoke to that last night.

Perhaps - but neither of them seem to have what could even be remotely described as a clear, "Zero Tolerance" approach to the issue. Of the two Dem candidates only Obama seems to have the stronger position - but both are remarkably inconsistent in terms of a coherent national strategy...

Are you serious? Obama is for DLs for illegals!

[HAL 9000 96]

Given that these candidates are now frontrunners in the presidential race - I'd say it suggests that the immigration issue either isn't as important to the public at large as its been made out to be, or the moderate approach to this issue has a pretty strong public following.

This is a given. Most outside the VJ community I've spoken to or heard talking of the "issue" could care less. Much like many around here that care less about actually reducing the problem from the root on up.

[Peikko 1,575]

I shall speak only in Venn. By the way, isn't talking about roots a TOS violation?

[no name 1]

Also, Obama was ranked the #1 most liberal senator of 2007. Hardly one who will crack down on illegals. Even Hillary was #16.

[SteveLaura 0]

Are you serious?

I find your concern today for peoples' seriousness admirable.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't think anyone can claim to speak for America - but you've got to admit that its a little strange that major candidates are not taking the sort of strong, draconian stand on this issue that many would like. Got to wonder why that is - whether the folks are not listening to the people, or that simply its not that big a priority to many people.

I don't know what the answer is - have to wait until the election campaign starts in earnest to see what the major issues the candidates choose to campaign on.

My guess however, is that the country's economy will be foremost in people's minds when they cast their ballots, rather than immigration.

Economy (& jobs being taken from USCs) goes hand in hand with immigration....

Both Hillary & Obama spoke to that last night.

Perhaps - but neither of them seem to have what could even be remotely described as a clear, "Zero Tolerance" approach to the issue. Of the two Dem candidates only Obama seems to have the stronger position - but both are remarkably inconsistent in terms of a coherent national strategy...

Are you serious? Obama is for DLs for illegals!

As was HC. She pledged to support that New York bill before turning around and reversing her position.

[no name 1]

I don't think anyone can claim to speak for America - but you've got to admit that its a little strange that major candidates are not taking the sort of strong, draconian stand on this issue that many would like. Got to wonder why that is - whether the folks are not listening to the people, or that simply its not that big a priority to many people.

I don't know what the answer is - have to wait until the election campaign starts in earnest to see what the major issues the candidates choose to campaign on.

My guess however, is that the country's economy will be foremost in people's minds when they cast their ballots, rather than immigration.

Economy (& jobs being taken from USCs) goes hand in hand with immigration....

Both Hillary & Obama spoke to that last night.

Perhaps - but neither of them seem to have what could even be remotely described as a clear, "Zero Tolerance" approach to the issue. Of the two Dem candidates only Obama seems to have the stronger position - but both are remarkably inconsistent in terms of a coherent national strategy...

Are you serious? Obama is for DLs for illegals!

As was HC. She pledged to support that New York bill before turning around and reversing her position.

Which she spoke to last night as well.

Did you watch the debate?

[HAL 9000 96]

I shall speak only in Venn. By the way, isn't talking about roots a TOS violation?

It is if your name is Kunta Kinte...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I didn't watch it - but there's plenty of historical info in the public domain with regards to the candidates' history on that issue.

All I'm saying is neither of them appear to have a strong stand on this issue that would likely satisfy many people.

On March 8, 2006, she strongly criticized H.R. 4437, a bill passed by the House of Representatives in December 2005 and sent to the Senate, which would impose harsher penalties for undocumented workers. Clinton called the measure "a rebuke to what America stands for" and said it would be "an unworkable scheme to try to deport 11 million people, which you have to have a police state to try to do." She believed the solution to the illegal immigration problem was to make "a path to earned citizenship for those who are here, working hard, paying taxes, respecting the law, and willing to meet a high bar for becoming a citizen."[41]

On March 27, Clinton again vowed to block the bill. Speaking to a New York group of open-border advocates, she said: "[The bill] is certainly not in keeping with my understanding of the Scriptures because this bill would literally criminalize the Good Samaritan and probably even Jesus himself."[42]

On April 5, speaking to the US Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, Clinton said her work for her New York constituents could fall afoul of the bill since some of her constituents are undocumented immigrants. "I realize I would be a criminal, too. My staff would be criminal. We help people with all kinds of problems."[43]

In September 2006, Clinton voted for the Secure Fence Act, authorizing the construction of 700 miles (1,100 km) of fencing along the United States–Mexico border.[44]

In May and June 2007, Clinton cast preliminary votes (in terms of amendments and cloture) in support of the high-profile, compromise-based but very controversial, comprehensive immigration reform bill known as the Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Reform Act of 2007.[45] When the bill was again brought forward, she continued to vote in favor of cloture motions to consider it.[46] In October 2007, Clinton voted in favor of a small subset of the previous bill, the DREAM Act.[47]

At a debate at Drexel University in Philadelphia on October 30, 2007, Clinton committed to support of New York Governor Eliot Spitzer's plan to give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. Two minutes later, she recanted the position and blamed the Bush administration for not passing immigration reform.[48] The following day, she clarified her position in a prepared statement by coming out in support of Spitzer's bill.[49] Two weeks later, after Spitzer abandoned the plan due to widespread opposition, Clinton reversed her position on the issue once again, stating: "I support Governor Spitzer's decision today to withdraw his proposal. As president, I will not support driver's licenses for undocumented people and will press for comprehensive immigration reform that deals with all of the issues around illegal immigration including border security and fixing our broken system."[50] At a University of Nevada, Las Vegas debate on November 16, when asked again if she supported granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, she gave a one-word answer: "No."[51]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_pos...ton#Immigration