Chicago Tribune, Factcheck.Org, Washington Post: Obama Never Represented Tony Rezko

[Alex+R 0]

I am all in favor of a woman president or a black president but the dems made the mistake of trying both at once. Something like this was inevatable.

Exactly what is that supposed to mean?

If Hillary were running without Obama she would easly win the nomination and probably be president. If Obama were running without Hillary he would probably win the nomination and probably be president. But with them both trying it at the same time simple human nature will come out and at least half of the voting population will feel insulted by what went on.

Still. Not. Making. Sense.

I think I understand where Gary is coming from. He believes that the Democratic Party is more unified and that if they came together with the common goal - to place a Democrat in the White House, they could forge alliances (such as with Obama and Clinton) that would have much better success than dividing the party. His point is valid.

But this is the primaries. Generally at this time we don't say "oh, I don't care. It could be anyone." Usually we try to pick one.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I am all in favor of a woman president or a black president but the dems made the mistake of trying both at once. Something like this was inevatable.

Exactly what is that supposed to mean?

If Hillary were running without Obama she would easly win the nomination and probably be president. If Obama were running without Hillary he would probably win the nomination and probably be president. But with them both trying it at the same time simple human nature will come out and at least half of the voting population will feel insulted by what went on.

Still. Not. Making. Sense.

I think I understand where Gary is coming from. He believes that the Democratic Party is more unified and that if they came together with the common goal - to place a Democrat in the White House, they could forge alliances (such as with Obama and Clinton) that would have much better success than dividing the party. His point is valid.

But this is the primaries. Generally at this time we don't say "oh, I don't care. It could be anyone." Usually we try to pick one.

I agree. And that's happening with the Republican primaries...they're as divided as ever. However, the bad blood between Obama and Clinton will make it nearly impossible for either of them to be running mates in the general election...and that is too bad.

[GaryC 7]

I am all in favor of a woman president or a black president but the dems made the mistake of trying both at once. Something like this was inevatable.

Exactly what is that supposed to mean?

If Hillary were running without Obama she would easly win the nomination and probably be president. If Obama were running without Hillary he would probably win the nomination and probably be president. But with them both trying it at the same time simple human nature will come out and at least half of the voting population will feel insulted by what went on.

Still. Not. Making. Sense.

I think I understand where Gary is coming from. He believes that the Democratic Party is more unified and that if they came together with the common goal - to place a Democrat in the White House, they could forge alliances (such as with Obama and Clinton) that would have much better success than dividing the party. His point is valid.

Yeah, what he said.

With the problems in the rep party lately the election was the dems to lose. But with the first black candidate fighting with the first woman candidate it just divided the party and made the election anyones guess. Bigotry and sexism coming out, or at least the apperance of it, was assured.

[William33 110]

I am all in favor of a woman president or a black president but the dems made the mistake of trying both at once. Something like this was inevatable.

Exactly what is that supposed to mean?

If Hillary were running without Obama she would easly win the nomination and probably be president. If Obama were running without Hillary he would probably win the nomination and probably be president. But with them both trying it at the same time simple human nature will come out and at least half of the voting population will feel insulted by what went on.

Very optimistic (Democratic) assumptions Gary.

[GaryC 7]

I am all in favor of a woman president or a black president but the dems made the mistake of trying both at once. Something like this was inevatable.

Exactly what is that supposed to mean?

If Hillary were running without Obama she would easly win the nomination and probably be president. If Obama were running without Hillary he would probably win the nomination and probably be president. But with them both trying it at the same time simple human nature will come out and at least half of the voting population will feel insulted by what went on.

Still. Not. Making. Sense.

I think I understand where Gary is coming from. He believes that the Democratic Party is more unified and that if they came together with the common goal - to place a Democrat in the White House, they could forge alliances (such as with Obama and Clinton) that would have much better success than dividing the party. His point is valid.

But this is the primaries. Generally at this time we don't say "oh, I don't care. It could be anyone." Usually we try to pick one.

Look at it this way, if Hillary wins the nomination how do you think the black voters will feel about voting for her in November? At least some of them will hold a grudge and vote third party or not at all. With the way the elections have been going the last few times every vote counts. But if Obama were not running and these fights were not happening she could count on solid support from the black voters.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Look at it this way, if Hillary wins the nomination how do you think the black voters will feel about voting for her in November? At least some of them will hold a grudge and vote third party or not at all. With the way the elections have been going the last few times every vote counts. But if Obama were not running and these fights were not happening she could count on solid support from the black voters.

I was 5 when Reagan was elected, so this is based on what I've read. I've read that Reagan and GWH Bush ran a similarly acrimonious and nasty primary campaign against each other. I've also read that the campaign seemed to tear the party apart. I've also read that Reagan mended fences by asking him to be his running mate (and he agreed).

Is a Hillary/Barack ticket out of the question?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I am all in favor of a woman president or a black president but the dems made the mistake of trying both at once. Something like this was inevatable.

Exactly what is that supposed to mean?

If Hillary were running without Obama she would easly win the nomination and probably be president. If Obama were running without Hillary he would probably win the nomination and probably be president. But with them both trying it at the same time simple human nature will come out and at least half of the voting population will feel insulted by what went on.

Still. Not. Making. Sense.

I think I understand where Gary is coming from. He believes that the Democratic Party is more unified and that if they came together with the common goal - to place a Democrat in the White House, they could forge alliances (such as with Obama and Clinton) that would have much better success than dividing the party. His point is valid.

But this is the primaries. Generally at this time we don't say "oh, I don't care. It could be anyone." Usually we try to pick one.

Look at it this way, if Hillary wins the nomination how do you think the black voters will feel about voting for her in November? At least some of them will hold a grudge and vote third party or not at all. With the way the elections have been going the last few times every vote counts. But if Obama were not running and these fights were not happening she could count on solid support from the black voters.

I don't agree with that. Voters aren't that single minded. The presidential election may come down to many voters choosing the lessor of two evils. I seriously doubt that many of them go into voting booth with a chip on their shoulder. Also, the Clinton's have a lot of blacks supporting them (oops, I mean her).

[GaryC 7]

I am all in favor of a woman president or a black president but the dems made the mistake of trying both at once. Something like this was inevatable.

Exactly what is that supposed to mean?

If Hillary were running without Obama she would easly win the nomination and probably be president. If Obama were running without Hillary he would probably win the nomination and probably be president. But with them both trying it at the same time simple human nature will come out and at least half of the voting population will feel insulted by what went on.

Very optimistic (Democratic) assumptions Gary.

I assume you mean I was giving the dems a lot of credit in their ability to win this time. I have no rose colored glasses on. The rep party is a mess and we don't have a good candidate. The fighting the dems are having is the only hope the reps have in winning. It's really a gift they gave us. Now if we can get a liberal third party to run things would get very interesting.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Look at it this way, if Hillary wins the nomination how do you think the black voters will feel about voting for her in November? At least some of them will hold a grudge and vote third party or not at all. With the way the elections have been going the last few times every vote counts. But if Obama were not running and these fights were not happening she could count on solid support from the black voters.

I was 5 when Reagan was elected, so this is based on what I've read. I've read that Reagan and GWH Bush ran a similarly acrimonious and nasty primary campaign against each other. I've also read that the campaign seemed to tear the party apart. I've also read that Reagan mended fences by asking him to be his running mate (and he agreed).

Is a Hillary/Barack ticket out of the question?

Interesting...Hmmm.

[GaryC 7]

I am all in favor of a woman president or a black president but the dems made the mistake of trying both at once. Something like this was inevatable.

Exactly what is that supposed to mean?

If Hillary were running without Obama she would easly win the nomination and probably be president. If Obama were running without Hillary he would probably win the nomination and probably be president. But with them both trying it at the same time simple human nature will come out and at least half of the voting population will feel insulted by what went on.

Still. Not. Making. Sense.

I think I understand where Gary is coming from. He believes that the Democratic Party is more unified and that if they came together with the common goal - to place a Democrat in the White House, they could forge alliances (such as with Obama and Clinton) that would have much better success than dividing the party. His point is valid.

But this is the primaries. Generally at this time we don't say "oh, I don't care. It could be anyone." Usually we try to pick one.

Look at it this way, if Hillary wins the nomination how do you think the black voters will feel about voting for her in November? At least some of them will hold a grudge and vote third party or not at all. With the way the elections have been going the last few times every vote counts. But if Obama were not running and these fights were not happening she could count on solid support from the black voters.

I don't agree with that. Voters aren't that single minded. The presidential election may come down to many voters choosing the lessor of two evils. I seriously doubt that many of them go into voting booth with a chip on their shoulder. Also, the Clinton's have a lot of blacks supporting them (oops, I mean her).

Well, that is just my opinion. But when race and sexism gets brought in there is a good chance grudges will be held. It at least gives the rep candidate some ammo to use. Time will tell.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Well, that is just my opinion. But when race and sexism gets brought in there is a good chance grudges will be held. It at least gives the rep candidate some ammo to use. Time will tell.

In a 50-50 electorate, swaying a small number of voters in a strategic location can make a difference. How difficult would it be using the viral media to remind black people in September and October of what HillBill did to Barack?

[GaryC 7]

Look at it this way, if Hillary wins the nomination how do you think the black voters will feel about voting for her in November? At least some of them will hold a grudge and vote third party or not at all. With the way the elections have been going the last few times every vote counts. But if Obama were not running and these fights were not happening she could count on solid support from the black voters.

I was 5 when Reagan was elected, so this is based on what I've read. I've read that Reagan and GWH Bush ran a similarly acrimonious and nasty primary campaign against each other. I've also read that the campaign seemed to tear the party apart. I've also read that Reagan mended fences by asking him to be his running mate (and he agreed).

Is a Hillary/Barack ticket out of the question?

That was the first election I voted in. It was nasty but race and sexism were never part of the fight. This one is different. I am not a fortune teller, I am just making my own observations. And a Clinton Obama ticket? I could be wrong but I doubt it.

Well, that is just my opinion. But when race and sexism gets brought in there is a good chance grudges will be held. It at least gives the rep candidate some ammo to use. Time will tell.

In a 50-50 electorate, swaying a small number of voters in a strategic location can make a difference. How difficult would it be using the viral media to remind black people in September and October of what HillBill did to Barack?

Thats what I am getting at.

Edited January 25, 2008 by GaryC

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

That was the first election I voted in. It was nasty but race and sexism were never part of the fight. This one is different. I am not a fortune teller, I am just making my own observations.

Obviously, those were both white men. Nastiness can take many forms, even white men have been strongly polarized from each other in the past. Before black people and women could vote, was there only one party?

[GaryC 7]

That was the first election I voted in. It was nasty but race and sexism were never part of the fight. This one is different. I am not a fortune teller, I am just making my own observations.

Obviously, those were both white men. Nastiness can take many forms, even white men have been strongly polarized from each other in the past. Before black people and women could vote, was there only one party?

It's always been a liberal/conservative party thing regardless of the names of the parties.

[William33 110]

I am all in favor of a woman president or a black president but the dems made the mistake of trying both at once. Something like this was inevatable.

Exactly what is that supposed to mean?

If Hillary were running without Obama she would easly win the nomination and probably be president. If Obama were running without Hillary he would probably win the nomination and probably be president. But with them both trying it at the same time simple human nature will come out and at least half of the voting population will feel insulted by what went on.

Very optimistic (Democratic) assumptions Gary.

I assume you mean I was giving the dems a lot of credit in their ability to win this time. I have no rose colored glasses on. The rep party is a mess and we don't have a good candidate. The fighting the dems are having is the only hope the reps have in winning. It's really a gift they gave us. Now if we can get a liberal third party to run things would get very interesting.

I agree with that. The Rep party is in serious trouble, given GWB's domestic and international reputation, not to mention the thin pool of candidates for 08.

However, the Dems current pool is not sustainable as it stands. I project a major shuffle, all around in Feb.