Real Estate Journey

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

underwriting standards have been tightened, mostly impacting people with fico scores in the low 600s or below. money is tight for them.

[LaL 418]

There are some buyers returning to the market...I just bought a steal of a home in a gated community near Tampa....lots of "short sales" ging on.

Tampa's supposedly "stable" as far as real estate goes at the moment.

Other areas, particularly the "Gold Coast" near West Palm are still in decline and forecasters say it's possible another 10% before stabilizing....

I would say a huge inventory that includes a good portion of foreclosures does not equal stable. Perhaps winding down into stabilization - but not there yet.

Stable means not declining in value further, nor rising......It doesn't mean that home values are recovering. I don't know what you've lost, if anything in equity, but I've lost about 20% in my home in Chicago.

However, it's price is currently "stable" in terms of others of similar property, size, etc. in the surrounding communities.

It still doesn't mean that you'll find a buyer though as the value is simply based on recent sales and not on quantity of sales. As we all know, sales are way, way, down. It means that the few people that did buy are willing to pay around that price.

I'm sure there are still areas in Tampa and the burbs that are continuing to decline but overall, according to two professional appraisal reports I contracted, the area and market is "stable" based on the comparative methods they use to assess the worth of a property for sale.

I was looking at three houses in three different communities: Spring Hill, Port Richey and New Port Richey. Homes values have declined significantly but are at this time "stable" according to the appraisals. One house dropped in value from $390,000 (assessed value as seen on tax record) in 2006 to $250,000 in 2008..........

My father lives and owns a home in West Palm Beach where home values continue to decline steadily.

BTW, as an aside. For those that think that money's tight I had no problem getting a 30y, 6.5%, 5% down mortgage with 1/2 point, and this is a second home!

I don't expect in less than a year for the prices to "recover", that is not what I was getting at at all. Calling this a stable market is ####### though. It still won't sell well below appraisal because there are way too many others even lower than that in foreclosure and hoping for one of those "quick sales" you got yourself. I am sure there is a much better word than "stable" for this market.

[LaL 418]

underwriting standards have been tightened, mostly impacting people with fico scores in the low 600s or below. money is tight for them.

AJ - you are right - but I sure didn't expect my lender in KS to tack on additional fees when we are no where near 600. Essentially - ####### situation and we will not be entertaining a loan with PMI.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

we will not be entertaining a loan with PMI.

[wifetobe 2]

What is acceptable? My home in Tampa has been listed for a month and 1/2 and there have been ZERO showings. I realize its a tough season in a very tough market. That does not completely make me feel comfy with the fact that no one has even walked through it yet. A few calls in to ask the price wound up - "well my client is looking in the XYZ range (lower)". I really might be able to control my nervousness about this if this realtor actually made me think she was doing anything at all.

* She was always late or cancelled when we were to go over the paperwork.

* I called her on 12/29 about my realtor.com listing and that it was bare bones. no reply.

* I emailed her again on 1/7 advising it still showed with limited info, I finally got an email back on 1/8/08 stating it will be done.

* 1/9/08 it was completed/uploaded.

* I call her and always get voicemail.

* I called her this past friday and have not received a call back yet.

I am getting so pissed off, and keep wondering, is this a normal "service" provided by a realtor once they get you into a contract with them? I feel completely ignored and think I should just cancel the contract citing the items listed above. Again- I realize tough market/tough time of year, but that in no way excuses the lack of communication. I even got a xmas card that stated - someone called, asked the price, declined to show the property. Um thanks! merry xmas to you too!! (while I apreciate the "effort" it took to "update me", I thought there are better ways!)

I FEEL YOU 101 f***ing percent. Except I think its worse in the UK right about now. I have had to take a £10k ($20k) drop on the house price listing and my house has been on the market for 4 months and I have changed estate agent 3 times only because their communication is NONE thereof, not even a lack of it. YES they treat you like sh*t once you sign a contract.. I don't think they are under any obligation to get in touch unless a timewaster/potential buyer wants to view your property. I understand what you're saying... a little courtesy call would be nice even if you don't have anyone wanting to view, just a 'We are still waiting for buyers to come thru the door' etc or something to that effect would be nice. They just don't work that way and I have learnt that after 4 months anyway. The best of luck selling your home... its not the easiest journey at all. The longest journey is the K1 but trying to sell a house runs a very close second...

[kaydee457 13]

There are some buyers returning to the market...I just bought a steal of a home in a gated community near Tampa....lots of "short sales" ging on.

Tampa's supposedly "stable" as far as real estate goes at the moment.

Other areas, particularly the "Gold Coast" near West Palm are still in decline and forecasters say it's possible another 10% before stabilizing....

I would say a huge inventory that includes a good portion of foreclosures does not equal stable. Perhaps winding down into stabilization - but not there yet.

Stable means not declining in value further, nor rising......It doesn't mean that home values are recovering. I don't know what you've lost, if anything in equity, but I've lost about 20% in my home in Chicago.

However, it's price is currently "stable" in terms of others of similar property, size, etc. in the surrounding communities.

It still doesn't mean that you'll find a buyer though as the value is simply based on recent sales and not on quantity of sales. As we all know, sales are way, way, down. It means that the few people that did buy are willing to pay around that price.

I'm sure there are still areas in Tampa and the burbs that are continuing to decline but overall, according to two professional appraisal reports I contracted, the area and market is "stable" based on the comparative methods they use to assess the worth of a property for sale.

I was looking at three houses in three different communities: Spring Hill, Port Richey and New Port Richey. Homes values have declined significantly but are at this time "stable" according to the appraisals. One house dropped in value from $390,000 (assessed value as seen on tax record) in 2006 to $250,000 in 2008..........

My father lives and owns a home in West Palm Beach where home values continue to decline steadily.

BTW, as an aside. For those that think that money's tight I had no problem getting a 30y, 6.5%, 5% down mortgage with 1/2 point, and this is a second home!

I don't expect in less than a year for the prices to "recover", that is not what I was getting at at all. Calling this a stable market is ####### though. It still won't sell well below appraisal because there are way too many others even lower than that in foreclosure and hoping for one of those "quick sales" you got yourself. I am sure there is a much better word than "stable" for this market.

The appraisals take in all prices of similar homes, including foreclosures and short sales.......in a given area. I also read a couple of articles that said the same, that Tampa Bay area was at bottom as opposed to other major Florida cities such as Orlando, Miami, Palm Beach, Jacksonville which are still declining in value.

I'm paying PMI. Anyone that puts down less than 20% will pay PMI. This has been standard practice long before this "crisis".....I'm not sure if you're angry over paying PMI, or as stated the increased cost of PMI? I would look further into whether or not you have the option to shop around for PMI on your own.

When I bought my home in Chicago in 2003 I originally was going to put down 10% and faced PMI. I then increased to the full 20% and paid no PMI.

PMI is required by most banks for any mortgage that's less than 20% down.......

[kaydee457 13]

Mortgage insurance in the US

The annual cost of PMI varies and is expressed in terms of the total loan value in most cases, depending on the loan term, loan type, proportion of the total home value that is financed, the coverage amount, and the frequency of premium payments (monthly, annual, or single). The PMI may be payable up front, or it may be capitalized onto the loan in the case of single premium product. This type of insurance is usually only required if the downpayment is less than 20% of the sales price or appraised value (in other words, if the loan-to-value ratio (LTV) is 80% or more). Once the principal is reduced to 80% of value, the PMI is often no longer required. This can occur via the principal being paid down, via home value appreciation, or both. In the case of lender-paid MI, the term of the policy can vary based upon the type of coverage provide (either primary insurance, or some sort of pool insurance policy). Borrowers typically have no knowledge of any lender-paid MI, in fact most "No MI Required" loans actually have lender-paid MI, which is funded through a higher interest rate that the borrower pays.

Sometimes lenders will require that LMI be paid for a fixed period (for example, 2 or 3 years), even if the principal reaches 80% sooner than that. Legally, there is no obligation to allow the cancellation of MI until the loan has amortized to a 78% LTV ratio (based on the original purchase price). The cancellation request must come from the Servicer of the mortgage to the PMI company who issued the insurance. Often the Servicer will require a new appraisal to determine the LTV. The cost of mortgage insurance varies considerably based on several factors which include: loan amount, LTV, occupancy (primary, second home, investment property), documentation provided at loan origination, and most of all, credit score.

If a borrower has less than the 20% downpayment needed to avoid a mortgage insurance requirement, they might be able to make use of a second mortgage (sometimes referred to as a "piggy-back loan") to make up the difference.[2] Two popular versions of this lending technique are the so-called 80/10/10 and 80/15/5 arrangements. Both involve obtaining a primary mortgage for 80% LTV. An 80/10/10 program uses a 10% LTV second mortgage with a 10% downpayment, and an 80/15/5 program uses a 15% LTV second mortgage with a 5% downpayment. Other combinations of second mortgage and downpayment amounts might also be available. One advantage of using these arrangements is that under United States tax law, mortgage interest payments may be deductible on the borrower's income taxes, whereas mortgage insurance premiums were not until 2007. In some situations, the all-in cost of borrowing may be cheaper using a piggy-back than by going with a single loan that includes borrower-paid or lender-paid MI.

[edit] LMI/PMI tax deduction

Mortgage insurance became tax-deductible in 2007 in the USA.[3] For some homeowners, the new law made it cheaper to get mortgage insurance than to get a 'piggyback' loan. The MI tax deductibility provision passed in 2006 provides for an itemized deduction for the cost of private mortgage insurance for homeowners earning up to $109,000 annually.[3]

The original law was extended in 2007 to provide for a three-year deduction, effective for mortgage contracts issued after December 31, 2006 and before January 1, 2010. It does not apply to mortgage insurance contracts that were in existence prior to passage of the legislation.[3]

source

[LaL 418]

I'm paying PMI. Anyone that puts down less than 20% will pay PMI. This has been standard practice long before this "crisis".....I'm not sure if you're angry over paying PMI, or as stated the increased cost of PMI? I would look further into whether or not you have the option to shop around for PMI on your own.

Yes, I know about PMI - I am not real estate stupid. I am not angry about it - I was surprised to get a letter stating I would be subject to higher PMI fees because of "volitiliy in the market". I knew we would pay PMI due to the FL market being teh suck (no sale - no equity), but I am not going to pay more.

Seems like an odd way to do business. We are in a great position to buy and although it would be stronger with the equity, everything is in order even only borrowing 25% of gross income. Clinching so tight as a backlash of bank & buyer stupidity. I can cognitively understand though, like I said - I just thought it weird.

Edited July 17, 2008 by LaL

[kaydee457 13]

Just saw this this morning.....It mentions Tampa area.....

Nine metropolitan cities — Las Vegas, Miami, Phoenix, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, Wash., Portland, Ore., and Washington, D.C. — posted record lows in May. And the value of housing in Detroit is now lower than it was in 2000.

But a possible bright spot in an otherwise dismal report, seven metros — Tampa, Fla., Boston, Detroit, Minneapolis, New York, Dallas and Atlanta — showed smaller annual declines.

source

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Just saw this this morning.....It mentions Tampa area.....

See http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=2061016

[chri'stina 190]

I guess they must have been talking about that or something similar on local news a few nights ago. They said Tampa is slightly doing better in home sales since May-but it's because prices have gone down down down.

Sujeet and I were just discussing last night our dismal feelings on this whole subject.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

According to the Case Schiller index released this morning, Tampa is down 20.2% YoY May 07-May 08.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Tampa is also 25.6% below July 2006 peak according to the Case index.

[chri'stina 190]

Tampa is also 25.6% below July 2006 peak according to the Case index.

Yep...

My area's prices are lower than Tampa's, always have been, but I know prices have gone down here too.

[LaL 418]

Just saw this this morning.....It mentions Tampa area.....

Nine metropolitan cities — Las Vegas, Miami, Phoenix, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, Wash., Portland, Ore., and Washington, D.C. — posted record lows in May. And the value of housing in Detroit is now lower than it was in 2000.

But a possible bright spot in an otherwise dismal report, seven metros — Tampa, Fla., Boston, Detroit, Minneapolis, New York, Dallas and Atlanta — showed smaller annual declines.

source

I have been sent these little news clips for most of the 8 months my house has been on the market. All I know is my comps started out at 200K Dec 2007 and are all now hovering around 135K as of July 2008. Buyers are scarce and I am competing against those who *have* to sell - therefore dropping the price 10K per month or so. Average -35%

I guess they must have been talking about that or something similar on local news a few nights ago. They said Tampa is slightly doing better in home sales since May-but it's because prices have gone down down down.

Sujeet and I were just discussing last night our dismal feelings on this whole subject.

I feel your pain Stina