Marriage Fraud: she disappeared with Permanent Residency (10 yrs.)

[diadromous mermaid 36]

There's something kinda bugging me about this I'd like to throw out there.

What difference does it make - and I'm not being a smarta$$ - if the marriage is past the two year point, or that it was blessed by a consular officer? If I have read this case correctly, the marriage was spent with the husband and wife mostly living apart in a long distance relationship. Correct me if I am wrong.

I remember googling (ages ago) about LDR's for greencards. I tried to find the article again and I apologize that I can't find it now. At any rate, I recall having read that the duration of a relationship is statistically moot when it comes to marriage fraud. The writer of that paper stated that the time spent on a relationship really meant nothing to a desperate fraudster. It takes time to cultivate and groom the innocent petitioner. To start over with someone else would mean a waste of time invested on the first person, and more time lost on finding someone else to bring them to the US. The expert in the piece I read claimed it made more sense to the intending immigrant to stick with the 'sucker' they already had on the hook.

As far as the CO's blessing of the marriage via the visa - I really don't believe that holds a lot of weight insofar as some sort of 'relationship validation'. CO's go on what is hand-carried to them by the beneficiary, who stands to benefit by producing whatever evidence will get them their visa. If the CO has the paperwork necessary to mark their file, and they aren't getting 'cultural vibes' to ding 'red flag' bells, they'll approve the visa. They aren't omnipotent and they can be duped - CR1, K3 or K1. I even recall seeing a thread here where members were queried as to how little evidence of the relationship they sent in with successful I-130 files. I think we can agree here that in many cases, the bar is fairly low for evidence of the bonafides.

Soooooooo.......it makes sense to me that if a beneficiary flees within a few weeks of arrival, the service might well be interested in locating that person. If anything, the length of time they put into their 'marriage' and the 'evidence' they produced for the visa interview might well be just they evidence needed against them in such a scenario.

The only significance I attach to the two year mark is that the result is an IR1 visa and non-conditional LPR status. I also don't doubt the service would be interested in locating this person if there were something far more significant to go on that what has been disclosed. I agree that time in the marriage COULD work against them IF some other significant evidence of marriage fraud were presented.

So far, it's nothing more than he said he thought the relationship suspect as soon as she arrived and she can say anything she wants, like, "After living with the man for two weeks, I decided we couldn't make it work." These things do happen, so without something else to go on, the woman has LRP rights and they have to drop it. They know this, so absent more evidence, they do nothing. That's the way I see THIS situation.

I'm aware of another couple where not only was the relationship suspect upon arrival but her emails to her USC sugar daddy boyfriend she was sneaking out to sleep with and take money from were presented to USCIS. The couple is now divorced, and this was only a two year LPR status but USCIS has done nothing. This is just one of many. Surely other members are aware of similar cases.

To gain immigrant benefit through petitioning for an immigrant visa or in adjusting from non-immigrant to immigrant, the alien and USC couple must demonstrate that the relationship is bona fide. In order for USCIS to take away a benefit already conferred, the USCIS would have to prove to the Immigration Judge that the marriage is not bona fide. Absent much documentation, written, that could demonstrate an alien's intent, the Service might be ill-prepared for the task.

BUT, in the simplest of terms, pushbrk seems to be looking at the matter without consideration of one, very important source of information.

THE USC's involvement in the matter. Circumstantial evidence, coupled with an allegation, by the USC spouse, that the alien spouse is suspected of having deceived the USC into marriage for immigrant benefit, is sufficient to launch an investigation. And an investigation could derive facts that USCIS would need to show a preponderance of evidence.

[pushbrk 12,105]

There's something kinda bugging me about this I'd like to throw out there.

What difference does it make - and I'm not being a smarta$$ - if the marriage is past the two year point, or that it was blessed by a consular officer? If I have read this case correctly, the marriage was spent with the husband and wife mostly living apart in a long distance relationship. Correct me if I am wrong.

I remember googling (ages ago) about LDR's for greencards. I tried to find the article again and I apologize that I can't find it now. At any rate, I recall having read that the duration of a relationship is statistically moot when it comes to marriage fraud. The writer of that paper stated that the time spent on a relationship really meant nothing to a desperate fraudster. It takes time to cultivate and groom the innocent petitioner. To start over with someone else would mean a waste of time invested on the first person, and more time lost on finding someone else to bring them to the US. The expert in the piece I read claimed it made more sense to the intending immigrant to stick with the 'sucker' they already had on the hook.

As far as the CO's blessing of the marriage via the visa - I really don't believe that holds a lot of weight insofar as some sort of 'relationship validation'. CO's go on what is hand-carried to them by the beneficiary, who stands to benefit by producing whatever evidence will get them their visa. If the CO has the paperwork necessary to mark their file, and they aren't getting 'cultural vibes' to ding 'red flag' bells, they'll approve the visa. They aren't omnipotent and they can be duped - CR1, K3 or K1. I even recall seeing a thread here where members were queried as to how little evidence of the relationship they sent in with successful I-130 files. I think we can agree here that in many cases, the bar is fairly low for evidence of the bonafides.

Soooooooo.......it makes sense to me that if a beneficiary flees within a few weeks of arrival, the service might well be interested in locating that person. If anything, the length of time they put into their 'marriage' and the 'evidence' they produced for the visa interview might well be just they evidence needed against them in such a scenario.

The only significance I attach to the two year mark is that the result is an IR1 visa and non-conditional LPR status. I also don't doubt the service would be interested in locating this person if there were something far more significant to go on that what has been disclosed. I agree that time in the marriage COULD work against them IF some other significant evidence of marriage fraud were presented.

So far, it's nothing more than he said he thought the relationship suspect as soon as she arrived and she can say anything she wants, like, "After living with the man for two weeks, I decided we couldn't make it work." These things do happen, so without something else to go on, the woman has LRP rights and they have to drop it. They know this, so absent more evidence, they do nothing. That's the way I see THIS situation.

I'm aware of another couple where not only was the relationship suspect upon arrival but her emails to her USC sugar daddy boyfriend she was sneaking out to sleep with and take money from were presented to USCIS. The couple is now divorced, and this was only a two year LPR status but USCIS has done nothing. This is just one of many. Surely other members are aware of similar cases.

To gain immigrant benefit through petitioning for an immigrant visa or in adjusting from non-immigrant to immigrant, the alien and USC couple must demonstrate that the relationship is bona fide. In order for USCIS to take away a benefit already conferred, the USCIS would have to prove to the Immigration Judge that the marriage is not bona fide. Absent much documentation, written, that could demonstrate an alien's intent, the Service might be ill-prepared for the task.

BUT, in the simplest of terms, pushbrk seems to be looking at the matter without consideration of one, very important source of information.

THE USC's involvement in the matter. Circumstantial evidence, coupled with an allegation, by the USC spouse, that the alien spouse is suspected of having deceived the USC into marriage for immigrant benefit, is sufficient to launch an investigation. And an investigation could derive facts that USCIS would need to show a preponderance of evidence.

You keep making statement to the effect of the bolded above without any examples. Now you add "circumstantial evidence" but none has been mentioned even as a hypothetical example. I don't doubt that USCIS has launched investigations based on allegations, but those allegations need some sort of support beyond one party's nonspecific, or even specific unsupported suspision, in order to be worth the expense and time, or to bring fruit. I'm not overlooking the possiblity. I'm just saying it would and should take more than what has been presented.

I take it no examples are forthcoming, so I'm going to do as the USCIS would probably do and not waste any more time with this.

[rebeccajo 14]

I take it no examples are forthcoming, so I'm going to do as the USCIS would probably do and not waste any more time with this.

*sigh*

I realize you aren't satisfied and want hard evidence. I think we tried to have a nice conversation with you.

But you still had to get kind of rude.

I really wish you could see that kind of comment isn't 'straight talk' but just rather - unneccessary.

[Mononoke28 134]

The OP and anyone going through a case like this should consult it with a lawyer to find out what can be done. It will probably all end just like all nasty divorces do. His team will come up with all kinds of reasons of why they think she used him and her team will do their best to prove him wrong. In the end, she will probably end up keeping her residency and he'll end up with less money in the bank.

Diana

[diadromous mermaid 36]

There's something kinda bugging me about this I'd like to throw out there.

What difference does it make - and I'm not being a smarta$$ - if the marriage is past the two year point, or that it was blessed by a consular officer? If I have read this case correctly, the marriage was spent with the husband and wife mostly living apart in a long distance relationship. Correct me if I am wrong.

I remember googling (ages ago) about LDR's for greencards. I tried to find the article again and I apologize that I can't find it now. At any rate, I recall having read that the duration of a relationship is statistically moot when it comes to marriage fraud. The writer of that paper stated that the time spent on a relationship really meant nothing to a desperate fraudster. It takes time to cultivate and groom the innocent petitioner. To start over with someone else would mean a waste of time invested on the first person, and more time lost on finding someone else to bring them to the US. The expert in the piece I read claimed it made more sense to the intending immigrant to stick with the 'sucker' they already had on the hook.

As far as the CO's blessing of the marriage via the visa - I really don't believe that holds a lot of weight insofar as some sort of 'relationship validation'. CO's go on what is hand-carried to them by the beneficiary, who stands to benefit by producing whatever evidence will get them their visa. If the CO has the paperwork necessary to mark their file, and they aren't getting 'cultural vibes' to ding 'red flag' bells, they'll approve the visa. They aren't omnipotent and they can be duped - CR1, K3 or K1. I even recall seeing a thread here where members were queried as to how little evidence of the relationship they sent in with successful I-130 files. I think we can agree here that in many cases, the bar is fairly low for evidence of the bonafides.

Soooooooo.......it makes sense to me that if a beneficiary flees within a few weeks of arrival, the service might well be interested in locating that person. If anything, the length of time they put into their 'marriage' and the 'evidence' they produced for the visa interview might well be just they evidence needed against them in such a scenario.

The only significance I attach to the two year mark is that the result is an IR1 visa and non-conditional LPR status. I also don't doubt the service would be interested in locating this person if there were something far more significant to go on that what has been disclosed. I agree that time in the marriage COULD work against them IF some other significant evidence of marriage fraud were presented.

So far, it's nothing more than he said he thought the relationship suspect as soon as she arrived and she can say anything she wants, like, "After living with the man for two weeks, I decided we couldn't make it work." These things do happen, so without something else to go on, the woman has LRP rights and they have to drop it. They know this, so absent more evidence, they do nothing. That's the way I see THIS situation.

I'm aware of another couple where not only was the relationship suspect upon arrival but her emails to her USC sugar daddy boyfriend she was sneaking out to sleep with and take money from were presented to USCIS. The couple is now divorced, and this was only a two year LPR status but USCIS has done nothing. This is just one of many. Surely other members are aware of similar cases.

To gain immigrant benefit through petitioning for an immigrant visa or in adjusting from non-immigrant to immigrant, the alien and USC couple must demonstrate that the relationship is bona fide. In order for USCIS to take away a benefit already conferred, the USCIS would have to prove to the Immigration Judge that the marriage is not bona fide. Absent much documentation, written, that could demonstrate an alien's intent, the Service might be ill-prepared for the task.

BUT, in the simplest of terms, pushbrk seems to be looking at the matter without consideration of one, very important source of information.

THE USC's involvement in the matter. Circumstantial evidence, coupled with an allegation, by the USC spouse, that the alien spouse is suspected of having deceived the USC into marriage for immigrant benefit, is sufficient to launch an investigation. And an investigation could derive facts that USCIS would need to show a preponderance of evidence.

You keep making statement to the effect of the bolded above without any examples. Now you add "circumstantial evidence" but none has been mentioned even as a hypothetical example. I don't doubt that USCIS has launched investigations based on allegations, but those allegations need some sort of support beyond one party's nonspecific, or even specific unsupported suspision, in order to be worth the expense and time, or to bring fruit. I'm not overlooking the possiblity. I'm just saying it would and should take more than what has been presented.

I take it no examples are forthcoming, so I'm going to do as the USCIS would probably do and not waste any more time with this.

I'm not meaning to be evasive, it's just that I would have thought you could imagine what such evidence could be. There's a whole range of possible pieces of evidence that could prompt USCIS to act on a USC's concern. In fact, I'll put it into simple terms. You know the effort each and every couple make to amass evidence to demonstrate the bona fide nature of their marriage? Well, prompt unravelling of those types of evidence shortly after being awarded a green card, could be indicative of a plan.

I don't know if it was in this thread or not, but I indicated that in my opinion, something as benign as correspondence between the parties (in the form of letters, emails, or chats, for example) that indicated that all was well between the couple and then a sudden disappearance without apprising the USC spouse of her whereabouts, could be enough to cause the Service to wonder if this was a carefully plotted scheme. In the OP's case, I can't say what type of evidence there is, since he has not posted much. In other cases, it can be the establishing of separate bank accounts, separate credit card accounts, failure to place one's spouse as beneficiary to another's estate.

I'd like to summarise my thoughts on this matter, here. Unless you have been through an event as horrendous as learning that your spouse had ulterior motives, and as far as I can see from your profile, you haven't, then to categorise the OP's sense of his wife's actions as merely an unactionable suspicion is out of place! No alien, intent on acquiring permanent residency through deceit, would be so foolish as to leave obvious evidence along the way. Some make mistakes, and by accident, leave a paper trail, but for the most part it is the sum of a lot of rather small pieces of evidence all pointing to one goal. Of course, it takes time, effort and oftentimes requires assistance to assemble, but a report presented with most of it pieced together would be more apt to result in an investigation.

The service knows this and so doesn't waste time on investigations and court costs unless there's far more to go on than one party's suspicion.

That one party's "suspicion", as you are wont to call it, is THE party as far as USCIS is concerned! USCIS offers immigrant benefit to the alien at the request of the USC (provided the relationship is "real") to the benefit of the USC. If the USC then informs USCIS that he was victimised by the alien and deceived into marriage, they have an obligation to investigate. Frankly, we should be appalled by anyone that offers a recommendation that nothing be done in a case involving unilateral fraud.

[pushbrk 12,105]

There's something kinda bugging me about this I'd like to throw out there.

What difference does it make - and I'm not being a smarta$$ - if the marriage is past the two year point, or that it was blessed by a consular officer? If I have read this case correctly, the marriage was spent with the husband and wife mostly living apart in a long distance relationship. Correct me if I am wrong.

I remember googling (ages ago) about LDR's for greencards. I tried to find the article again and I apologize that I can't find it now. At any rate, I recall having read that the duration of a relationship is statistically moot when it comes to marriage fraud. The writer of that paper stated that the time spent on a relationship really meant nothing to a desperate fraudster. It takes time to cultivate and groom the innocent petitioner. To start over with someone else would mean a waste of time invested on the first person, and more time lost on finding someone else to bring them to the US. The expert in the piece I read claimed it made more sense to the intending immigrant to stick with the 'sucker' they already had on the hook.

As far as the CO's blessing of the marriage via the visa - I really don't believe that holds a lot of weight insofar as some sort of 'relationship validation'. CO's go on what is hand-carried to them by the beneficiary, who stands to benefit by producing whatever evidence will get them their visa. If the CO has the paperwork necessary to mark their file, and they aren't getting 'cultural vibes' to ding 'red flag' bells, they'll approve the visa. They aren't omnipotent and they can be duped - CR1, K3 or K1. I even recall seeing a thread here where members were queried as to how little evidence of the relationship they sent in with successful I-130 files. I think we can agree here that in many cases, the bar is fairly low for evidence of the bonafides.

Soooooooo.......it makes sense to me that if a beneficiary flees within a few weeks of arrival, the service might well be interested in locating that person. If anything, the length of time they put into their 'marriage' and the 'evidence' they produced for the visa interview might well be just they evidence needed against them in such a scenario.

The only significance I attach to the two year mark is that the result is an IR1 visa and non-conditional LPR status. I also don't doubt the service would be interested in locating this person if there were something far more significant to go on that what has been disclosed. I agree that time in the marriage COULD work against them IF some other significant evidence of marriage fraud were presented.

So far, it's nothing more than he said he thought the relationship suspect as soon as she arrived and she can say anything she wants, like, "After living with the man for two weeks, I decided we couldn't make it work." These things do happen, so without something else to go on, the woman has LRP rights and they have to drop it. They know this, so absent more evidence, they do nothing. That's the way I see THIS situation.

I'm aware of another couple where not only was the relationship suspect upon arrival but her emails to her USC sugar daddy boyfriend she was sneaking out to sleep with and take money from were presented to USCIS. The couple is now divorced, and this was only a two year LPR status but USCIS has done nothing. This is just one of many. Surely other members are aware of similar cases.

To gain immigrant benefit through petitioning for an immigrant visa or in adjusting from non-immigrant to immigrant, the alien and USC couple must demonstrate that the relationship is bona fide. In order for USCIS to take away a benefit already conferred, the USCIS would have to prove to the Immigration Judge that the marriage is not bona fide. Absent much documentation, written, that could demonstrate an alien's intent, the Service might be ill-prepared for the task.

BUT, in the simplest of terms, pushbrk seems to be looking at the matter without consideration of one, very important source of information.

THE USC's involvement in the matter. Circumstantial evidence, coupled with an allegation, by the USC spouse, that the alien spouse is suspected of having deceived the USC into marriage for immigrant benefit, is sufficient to launch an investigation. And an investigation could derive facts that USCIS would need to show a preponderance of evidence.

You keep making statement to the effect of the bolded above without any examples. Now you add "circumstantial evidence" but none has been mentioned even as a hypothetical example. I don't doubt that USCIS has launched investigations based on allegations, but those allegations need some sort of support beyond one party's nonspecific, or even specific unsupported suspision, in order to be worth the expense and time, or to bring fruit. I'm not overlooking the possiblity. I'm just saying it would and should take more than what has been presented.

I take it no examples are forthcoming, so I'm going to do as the USCIS would probably do and not waste any more time with this.

I'm not meaning to be evasive, it's just that I would have thought you could imagine what such evidence could be. There's a whole range of possible pieces of evidence that could prompt USCIS to act on a USC's concern. In fact, I'll put it into simple terms. You know the effort each and every couple make to amass evidence to demonstrate the bona fide nature of their marriage? Well, prompt unravelling of those types of evidence shortly after being awarded a green card, could be indicative of a plan.

I don't know if it was in this thread or not, but I indicated that in my opinion, something as benign as correspondence between the parties (in the form of letters, emails, or chats, for example) that indicated that all was well between the couple and then a sudden disappearance without apprising the USC spouse of her whereabouts, could be enough to cause the Service to wonder if this was a carefully plotted scheme. In the OP's case, I can't say what type of evidence there is, since he has not posted much. In other cases, it can be the establishing of separate bank accounts, separate credit card accounts, failure to place one's spouse as beneficiary to another's estate.

I'd like to summarise my thoughts on this matter, here. Unless you have been through an event as horrendous as learning that your spouse had ulterior motives, and as far as I can see from your profile, you haven't, then to categorise the OP's sense of his wife's actions as merely an unactionable suspicion is out of place! No alien, intent on acquiring permanent residency through deceit, would be so foolish as to leave obvious evidence along the way. Some make mistakes, and by accident, leave a paper trail, but for the most part it is the sum of a lot of rather small pieces of evidence all pointing to one goal. Of course, it takes time, effort and oftentimes requires assistance to assemble, but a report presented with most of it pieced together would be more apt to result in an investigation.

The service knows this and so doesn't waste time on investigations and court costs unless there's far more to go on than one party's suspicion.

That one party's "suspicion", as you are wont to call it, is THE party as far as USCIS is concerned! USCIS offers immigrant benefit to the alien at the request of the USC (provided the relationship is "real") to the benefit of the USC. If the USC then informs USCIS that he was victimised by the alien and deceived into marriage, they have an obligation to investigate. Frankly, we should be appalled by anyone that offers a recommendation that nothing be done in a case involving unilateral fraud.

You're offering the fact that "they can and they might" and the opinion "they should". I'm agreeing they can and might and should in certain cases but are unlikely to without significant evidence. There's just not enough difference there to continue disagreeing. Maybe so and probably not are no more different than half fulll and half empty.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

There's something kinda bugging me about this I'd like to throw out there.

What difference does it make - and I'm not being a smarta$$ - if the marriage is past the two year point, or that it was blessed by a consular officer? If I have read this case correctly, the marriage was spent with the husband and wife mostly living apart in a long distance relationship. Correct me if I am wrong.

I remember googling (ages ago) about LDR's for greencards. I tried to find the article again and I apologize that I can't find it now. At any rate, I recall having read that the duration of a relationship is statistically moot when it comes to marriage fraud. The writer of that paper stated that the time spent on a relationship really meant nothing to a desperate fraudster. It takes time to cultivate and groom the innocent petitioner. To start over with someone else would mean a waste of time invested on the first person, and more time lost on finding someone else to bring them to the US. The expert in the piece I read claimed it made more sense to the intending immigrant to stick with the 'sucker' they already had on the hook.

As far as the CO's blessing of the marriage via the visa - I really don't believe that holds a lot of weight insofar as some sort of 'relationship validation'. CO's go on what is hand-carried to them by the beneficiary, who stands to benefit by producing whatever evidence will get them their visa. If the CO has the paperwork necessary to mark their file, and they aren't getting 'cultural vibes' to ding 'red flag' bells, they'll approve the visa. They aren't omnipotent and they can be duped - CR1, K3 or K1. I even recall seeing a thread here where members were queried as to how little evidence of the relationship they sent in with successful I-130 files. I think we can agree here that in many cases, the bar is fairly low for evidence of the bonafides.

Soooooooo.......it makes sense to me that if a beneficiary flees within a few weeks of arrival, the service might well be interested in locating that person. If anything, the length of time they put into their 'marriage' and the 'evidence' they produced for the visa interview might well be just they evidence needed against them in such a scenario.

The only significance I attach to the two year mark is that the result is an IR1 visa and non-conditional LPR status. I also don't doubt the service would be interested in locating this person if there were something far more significant to go on that what has been disclosed. I agree that time in the marriage COULD work against them IF some other significant evidence of marriage fraud were presented.

So far, it's nothing more than he said he thought the relationship suspect as soon as she arrived and she can say anything she wants, like, "After living with the man for two weeks, I decided we couldn't make it work." These things do happen, so without something else to go on, the woman has LRP rights and they have to drop it. They know this, so absent more evidence, they do nothing. That's the way I see THIS situation.

I'm aware of another couple where not only was the relationship suspect upon arrival but her emails to her USC sugar daddy boyfriend she was sneaking out to sleep with and take money from were presented to USCIS. The couple is now divorced, and this was only a two year LPR status but USCIS has done nothing. This is just one of many. Surely other members are aware of similar cases.

To gain immigrant benefit through petitioning for an immigrant visa or in adjusting from non-immigrant to immigrant, the alien and USC couple must demonstrate that the relationship is bona fide. In order for USCIS to take away a benefit already conferred, the USCIS would have to prove to the Immigration Judge that the marriage is not bona fide. Absent much documentation, written, that could demonstrate an alien's intent, the Service might be ill-prepared for the task.

BUT, in the simplest of terms, pushbrk seems to be looking at the matter without consideration of one, very important source of information.

THE USC's involvement in the matter. Circumstantial evidence, coupled with an allegation, by the USC spouse, that the alien spouse is suspected of having deceived the USC into marriage for immigrant benefit, is sufficient to launch an investigation. And an investigation could derive facts that USCIS would need to show a preponderance of evidence.

You keep making statement to the effect of the bolded above without any examples. Now you add "circumstantial evidence" but none has been mentioned even as a hypothetical example. I don't doubt that USCIS has launched investigations based on allegations, but those allegations need some sort of support beyond one party's nonspecific, or even specific unsupported suspision, in order to be worth the expense and time, or to bring fruit. I'm not overlooking the possiblity. I'm just saying it would and should take more than what has been presented.

I take it no examples are forthcoming, so I'm going to do as the USCIS would probably do and not waste any more time with this.

I'm not meaning to be evasive, it's just that I would have thought you could imagine what such evidence could be. There's a whole range of possible pieces of evidence that could prompt USCIS to act on a USC's concern. In fact, I'll put it into simple terms. You know the effort each and every couple make to amass evidence to demonstrate the bona fide nature of their marriage? Well, prompt unravelling of those types of evidence shortly after being awarded a green card, could be indicative of a plan.

I don't know if it was in this thread or not, but I indicated that in my opinion, something as benign as correspondence between the parties (in the form of letters, emails, or chats, for example) that indicated that all was well between the couple and then a sudden disappearance without apprising the USC spouse of her whereabouts, could be enough to cause the Service to wonder if this was a carefully plotted scheme. In the OP's case, I can't say what type of evidence there is, since he has not posted much. In other cases, it can be the establishing of separate bank accounts, separate credit card accounts, failure to place one's spouse as beneficiary to another's estate.

I'd like to summarise my thoughts on this matter, here. Unless you have been through an event as horrendous as learning that your spouse had ulterior motives, and as far as I can see from your profile, you haven't, then to categorise the OP's sense of his wife's actions as merely an unactionable suspicion is out of place! No alien, intent on acquiring permanent residency through deceit, would be so foolish as to leave obvious evidence along the way. Some make mistakes, and by accident, leave a paper trail, but for the most part it is the sum of a lot of rather small pieces of evidence all pointing to one goal. Of course, it takes time, effort and oftentimes requires assistance to assemble, but a report presented with most of it pieced together would be more apt to result in an investigation.

The service knows this and so doesn't waste time on investigations and court costs unless there's far more to go on than one party's suspicion.

That one party's "suspicion", as you are wont to call it, is THE party as far as USCIS is concerned! USCIS offers immigrant benefit to the alien at the request of the USC (provided the relationship is "real") to the benefit of the USC. If the USC then informs USCIS that he was victimised by the alien and deceived into marriage, they have an obligation to investigate. Frankly, we should be appalled by anyone that offers a recommendation that nothing be done in a case involving unilateral fraud.

I'm agreeing they can and might and should in certain cases but are unlikely to without significant evidence.

YOU, as far as I've ascertained, are neither expert nor experienced to determine what is significant. The USC's testimony that he or she was deceived into marriage by the alien for residency purposes is significant.

I'm curious. Since you have asked me over and over again for corroborating information, can you please cite your source that indicates that USCIS considers anything we've discussed not important or significant enough to bother to investigate?

Edited January 4, 2008 by diadromous mermaid

[pushbrk 12,105]

YOU, as far as I've ascertained, are neither expert nor experienced to determine what is significant. The USC's testimony that he or she was deceived into marriage by the alien for residency purposes is significant.

I'm curious. Since you have asked me over and over again for corroborating information, can you please cite your source that indicates that USCIS considers anything we've discussed not important or significant enough to bother to investigate?

I hope these quotes come out ok. I've seen many cases reported on forums where the immigrant left in what seemed to be obvious fraud to the USC spouse, where USCIS has done nothing, even in the face of significant evidence of criminal activity. I gave a glaring example earlier in the thread.

Where we're getting separated here is that you are considering the opinion of the agrieved USC as factual evidence. An allegation isn't evidence.

Examples:

You wrote...

I indicated that in my opinion, something as benign as correspondence between the parties (in the form of letters, emails, or chats, for example) that indicated that all was well between the couple and then a sudden disappearance without apprising the USC spouse of her whereabouts, could be enough to cause the Service to wonder if this was a carefully plotted scheme.

The above is just a case of "he said" absent any "she said". Further your assertion is only "could be". I agree it could be but consider it unlikely to be enough.

Then you wrote...

In other cases, it can be the establishing of separate bank accounts, separate credit card accounts, failure to place one's spouse as beneficiary to another's estate.

My wife and I have a joint account but she has an account of her own too. She has a separate credit card I helped her obtain in order to build credit in her own name. A "failure" to do something can be interpreted multiple ways. All the above adds up to nothing more than maybe. For every maybe, there's a maybe not. USCIS knows this. They also know it is human nature to leave out the part of the story that makes us look bad. One can alledge their spouse left for no reason and that they suspected insincerity from some point forward but then the spouse can equally state, their reasons, left out or not mentioned by the "he" in the "he/she".

USCIS needs to determine whether there's enough credible evidence to back up the maybe before they expend resources to determine whether to find the details of the maybe not. They don't have enough resources to go on such wild goose chases. They don't have enough resources to go after some of the cases I wish they would, where there's more than just he said/she said.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

YOU, as far as I've ascertained, are neither expert nor experienced to determine what is significant. The USC's testimony that he or she was deceived into marriage by the alien for residency purposes is significant.

I'm curious. Since you have asked me over and over again for corroborating information, can you please cite your source that indicates that USCIS considers anything we've discussed not important or significant enough to bother to investigate?

I hope these quotes come out ok. I've seen many cases reported on forums where the immigrant left in what seemed to be obvious fraud to the USC spouse, where USCIS has done nothing, even in the face of significant evidence of criminal activity. I gave a glaring example earlier in the thread.

Where we're getting separated here is that you are considering the opinion of the agrieved USC as factual evidence. An allegation isn't evidence.

Examples:

You wrote...

I indicated that in my opinion, something as benign as correspondence between the parties (in the form of letters, emails, or chats, for example) that indicated that all was well between the couple and then a sudden disappearance without apprising the USC spouse of her whereabouts, could be enough to cause the Service to wonder if this was a carefully plotted scheme.

The above is just a case of "he said" absent any "she said". Further your assertion is only "could be". I agree it could be but consider it unlikely to be enough.

Then you wrote...

In other cases, it can be the establishing of separate bank accounts, separate credit card accounts, failure to place one's spouse as beneficiary to another's estate.

My wife and I have a joint account but she has an account of her own too. She has a separate credit card I helped her obtain in order to build credit in her own name. A "failure" to do something can be interpreted multiple ways. All the above adds up to nothing more than maybe. For every maybe, there's a maybe not. USCIS knows this. They also know it is human nature to leave out the part of the story that makes us look bad. One can alledge their spouse left for no reason and that they suspected insincerity from some point forward but then the spouse can equally state, their reasons, left out or not mentioned by the "he" in the "he/she".

USCIS needs to determine whether there's enough credible evidence to back up the maybe before they expend resources to determine whether to find the details of the maybe not. They don't have enough resources to go on such wild goose chases. They don't have enough resources to go after some of the cases I wish they would, where there's more than just he said/she said.

I'll agree that he evidence presented needs to be credible. What isn't necessarily required is an "open and shut" piece of evidence, as in a written confession or declaration to someone that the alien intended to exit the marriage once residency was conferred. What you deem credible and what the Service deems credible may vary. One individual event may not appear to demonstrate much, but in conjunction with other events, facts, circumstances it can amount to much more. I think it important to bear in mind that USCIS has an obligation to deter misuse of visas and status. USCIS also has an obligation to serve the citizenry, and in turn the country.

With respect to the separation of accounts, alone, it doesn't amount to much. Agreed. There are many individuals that keep their financial lives distinct. Yours is a choice, but once again you are not also at the same time intimating or alleging your marriage to have been a tool to gain residency. Once again, the circumstances alter the potential impact of such actions. In the case of a US citizen and alien that commingled for the purposes of demonstrating the bonafides of marriage; established the status of beneficiary to the alien for purposes of demonstrating not only a commitment to the union created but also to USCIS that the US citizen claims the marriage is genuine, etc. a sudden attempt on the part of the alien to *profit* from any conference made by the USC, the true purpose unbeknownst to the USC initially, can present enough of a question that USCIS could determine that further investigation is appropriate.

In summary, as I indicated earlier, the likelihood that anything will come of a report of unilateral fraud made by a USC is directly related to a number of factors. When the report is made, how it is made (as in how much evidence, however benign it might appear on its face, is offered to corroborate the USCs concerns and suspicions; actual events that have occured; the current disposition of the marriage, the current location of the alien, and the alien's stage in the process. If there is yet another hurdle in the alien's path, whether still in the marriage or recently divorced, USCIS might simply choose to await that submission in order to impose closer scrutiny upon the alien to determine whether or not residency has been awarded to someone ineligible or unworthy.

I can't affirm or deny what you have read. I can only speak of my own experience, naturally.

Edited January 4, 2008 by diadromous mermaid

[fathe 0]

I am going the a similar experience as what the OP sites. My husband also left me shortly after arriving in the US, he has permanent unconditional residency as well. I called the USCIS and they told me that I might be able to do something about it and they had me make an infopass appointment. So I made the appointment, took the morning off from work and when it was finally my turn to speak to an agent I was practically laughed out of the room. I was told that I asked to have him here and I got what I asked for so I would have to live with it!

I was not satisfied with this answer so a few weeks later I called ICE and they told me that if I presented very strong evidence of fraud then they would investigate it. So far my evidence consists of phone records with calls to the other woman, emails that I uncovered from him to her BEFORE he came to the US, and emails and sexy pictures exchanged after he arrived here --includung a very incrimnating chat transcript. I also have complete contact information on the other woman including her address, place of work and all phone numbers and email addresses.

I think that is a lot of evidence, but I still doubt that it will be enough to bring about any action. My lawyer flat out told me to just get a divorce and accept that there was nothing I could do.

BUT, you never know until you try!

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I am going the a similar experience as what the OP sites. My husband also left me shortly after arriving in the US, he has permanent unconditional residency as well. I called the USCIS and they told me that I might be able to do something about it and they had me make an infopass appointment. So I made the appointment, took the morning off from work and when it was finally my turn to speak to an agent I was practically laughed out of the room. I was told that I asked to have him here and I got what I asked for so I would have to live with it!

I was not satisfied with this answer so a few weeks later I called ICE and they told me that if I presented very strong evidence of fraud then they would investigate it. So far my evidence consists of phone records with calls to the other woman, emails that I uncovered from him to her BEFORE he came to the US, and emails and sexy pictures exchanged after he arrived here --includung a very incrimnating chat transcript. I also have complete contact information on the other woman including her address, place of work and all phone numbers and email addresses.

I think that is a lot of evidence, but I still doubt that it will be enough to bring about any action. My lawyer flat out told me to just get a divorce and accept that there was nothing I could do.

BUT, you never know until you try!

I'm sorry for your experience, but it is really critical that the evidence demonstrate that the marriage to you was for immigrant benefit alone. Evidence of adultery, however painful it is to discover, might only demonstrate that you married a person who engaged in infidelity. Now if there is something within those communications that suggests that he needed the residency in order to live here, that's another thing.

Please do what you need to do to heal and by all means pursue it if you believe you have enough information to show his ulterior motives.

[Nutty 2]

If the original intentions of the spouse, who has already been granted the "unconditional" Permanent Residence for 10 years, is immediately suspect upon arrival in the US, and within 2 1/2 weeks has gone to live somewhere else, how can she have her Visa removed: only if it is proven to have been fraudulently obtained from the beginning upon entering into a marriage, or by divorcing her, by a combination of these things, and/or by some other means? (We're talking about New Jersey here.)

She also does not state her present whereabouts or address. At this point, since she is not living with her spouse, can she lbe liable for not having reported an address change? What role does of Affidavit Support by the US-citizen husband play in all of this?

I don't think it matters when the intent to commit fraud occurs as long as you can prove there has been fraud.

I can only suggest you contact the USCIS to explain the situation and that you do not know where the wife is at this point. If she tries to register or adjust status, she won't be able to.

[DJ+Ten 0]

Forgive my ignorance as a newbie here, but reading some of the above posts gave me that feeling you get when you flip to the last page of the Calculus book to see how it ends. I'm glad this discussion came up though because I'm wondering how concerned the USC should be about his/her vanished immigrant spouse. I have already had two US marriages end in divorce. What are the liabilities of the USC, if the spouse disappears (fraudulently or otherwise)? Is there a discussion of the subject that you might refer me to?

[fathe 0]

I'm sorry for your experience, but it is really critical that the evidence demonstrate that the marriage to you was for immigrant benefit alone.

This is exactly why I have doubts about the likelihood of catching a permanent resident for marriage fraud --it would be nearly impossible to prove their original intent.

In my case the closest thing I have to proving this is that in a counseling session (couselor could vauch,) my husband confessed that he had considered not coming to america because he was in love with someone else and didn't want to leave her. That does not prove that he married me with the intention to use me, but it does prove that when he emigrated here he had an alterior motive.

And I fear even that is not proof enough. I guess that is why most people just say get a divorce and get over it, it is incredibly difficult to prove marriage fraud.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I'm sorry for your experience, but it is really critical that the evidence demonstrate that the marriage to you was for immigrant benefit alone.

This is exactly why I have doubts about the likelihood of catching a permanent resident for marriage fraud --it would be nearly impossible to prove their original intent.

In my case the closest thing I have to proving this is that in a counseling session (couselor could vauch,) my husband confessed that he had considered not coming to america because he was in love with someone else and didn't want to leave her. That does not prove that he married me with the intention to use me, but it does prove that when he emigrated here he had an alterior motive.

And I fear even that is not proof enough. I guess that is why most people just say get a divorce and get over it, it is incredibly difficult to prove marriage fraud.

fathe,

It isn't difficult to prove marriage fraud at all, if you have the correct evidence. What is difficult is demonstrating your worst fears without evidence. In your case, your husband may simply have been torn between you and another woman. BUT, were there some sort of evidence that could show that these two were involved prior to your marriage and had never ended their relationship and that they had planned, ultimately, to live together in the US, compliments of the PR that your husband would acquire, automatically, as a result of marrying you...then that is compelling evidence of them conspiring to commit marriage fraud.