Father kills 16 year old Canadian girl

[Emancipation 2]

I just think it's way to simplistic to blame "religion" on this one..

The matter is far to complex IMO

The instinct in all of us is to quickly persuade ourselves that this kind of person is "radically different" and not at all "like us" and therefore we quickly take something like his religion and say.. "he's NOT like us" and therefore we'd NEVER do such a thing.. It is in our nature to distance ourselves from an tragic event such as this and state we'd never do this because we are not some "religious radical" person. I think this is nearsighted IMO.

The truth is any ideology or worldview can so distort and twist someone's mind and personality that people (who are religious or not) are capable of doing such a thing in the name of some cause or justification..

I don't think we should dismiss things like this as just another religious nutbar.. Did his faith play a role - probably.. but there are cultural and social expectations that played a part as well.. and I think it's a bit radical to blame "Religion" and all people who "preach" or speak for Religions in some sweeping generalization like it fixes the problem of why this guy committed this horrible act against his own flesh and blood.

[Alex+R 0]

i agree with you brother stevie..it is a cultural norm in his view which was defined in his view of his religion....

he was a chopf##k...and a youngster died at his hands...

Yes. To even suggest some of the responsibility lies with religion in general is just giving these murderers an excuse. I refuse to drink that kool-aid.

Blaming the act solely on religion may be overly simplistic, but I'm not sure how you think it gives them an excuse. I don't think anyone is holding the man any less accountable for his actions.

[no name 1]

What about suicide bombers?

Suicide bombing is often associated with the religion of Islam. 224 of 300 suicide terror attacks from 1980 to 2003 compiled by the Chicago Project on Suicide Terrorism, involved Islamist groups or terrorist acts in Muslim-majority lands.[23] Based on quotes by Islamists such as Hamas activist Muhammad Abu Wardeh,

God would compensate the martyr for sacrificing his life for his land. If you become a martyr, God will give you 70 virgins (houris), 70 wives and everlasting happiness.[24]

the idea that Muslim "martyrs" believe they are promised 70 or 72 houris or virgins in the afterworld has spread far and wide among non-Muslims [25][26][27][28] This has led some to conclude there is a connection between Islam and suicide attacks.

link

Edited December 11, 2007 by devilette

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Wow ... i wonder what religion we can blame for Robert Pickton's behaviour..

Well, it involved pigs, so I'd say it wasn't Judaism or Islam.

Really it's quite different. There is OBVIOUSLY a religious motivation to this girl's murder.

I'd say cultural more than religious; honor killings don't always follow Islam. In some areas of the ME, it would apply to Christians as well as pre-Christian/Islam tribes. It's been influenced by religion, and some may attribute their own actions to it, but it's a complicated picture.

Indeed. I love that VJ taught me that. The history of honor killings may be the only thing I ever actually learned here. Still, he killed his daughter over wearing the hijab, so the shame she brought on her family was religion-related.

It may be a twisted understanding of religious law, but I've never read any Muslim scholar state that Quran endorses the killing of people...period. There are exremists who can try to make that argument, but as somebody said in that thread on imagining no religion, killing in the name of religion is just an excuse.

[Alex+R 0]

Wow ... i wonder what religion we can blame for Robert Pickton's behaviour..

Well, it involved pigs, so I'd say it wasn't Judaism or Islam.

Really it's quite different. There is OBVIOUSLY a religious motivation to this girl's murder.

I'd say cultural more than religious; honor killings don't always follow Islam. In some areas of the ME, it would apply to Christians as well as pre-Christian/Islam tribes. It's been influenced by religion, and some may attribute their own actions to it, but it's a complicated picture.

Indeed. I love that VJ taught me that. The history of honor killings may be the only thing I ever actually learned here. Still, he killed his daughter over wearing the hijab, so the shame she brought on her family was religion-related.

It may be a twisted understanding of religious law, but I've never read any Muslim scholar state that Quran endorses the killing of people...period. There are exremists who can try to make that argument, but as somebody said in that thread on imagining no religion, killing in the name of religion is just an excuse.

The Bible doesn't say anything about stem-cell research or abortion, but that hasn't stopped people from using it to protest those things. I still don't understand what you mean by "killing in the name of religion is just an excuse." Are you saying that people who kill in the name of religion just want to kill and are looking for a reason to do so?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

i agree with you brother stevie..it is a cultural norm in his view which was defined in his view of his religion....

he was a chopf##k...and a youngster died at his hands...

Yes. To even suggest some of the responsibility lies with religion in general is just giving these murderers an excuse. I refuse to drink that kool-aid.

Blaming the act solely on religion may be overly simplistic, but I'm not sure how you think it gives them an excuse. I don't think anyone is holding the man any less accountable for his actions.

I can certainly see there are problems with how people follow a religion, but religion of itself is not the flaw...the flaw lies in the thinking of the individual or group.

[no name 1]

I can certainly see there are problems with how people follow a religion, but religion of itself is not the flaw...the flaw lies in the thinking of the individual or group (a.k.a. RELIGION).

Edited December 11, 2007 by devilette

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Wow ... i wonder what religion we can blame for Robert Pickton's behaviour..

Well, it involved pigs, so I'd say it wasn't Judaism or Islam.

Really it's quite different. There is OBVIOUSLY a religious motivation to this girl's murder.

I'd say cultural more than religious; honor killings don't always follow Islam. In some areas of the ME, it would apply to Christians as well as pre-Christian/Islam tribes. It's been influenced by religion, and some may attribute their own actions to it, but it's a complicated picture.

Indeed. I love that VJ taught me that. The history of honor killings may be the only thing I ever actually learned here. Still, he killed his daughter over wearing the hijab, so the shame she brought on her family was religion-related.

It may be a twisted understanding of religious law, but I've never read any Muslim scholar state that Quran endorses the killing of people...period. There are exremists who can try to make that argument, but as somebody said in that thread on imagining no religion, killing in the name of religion is just an excuse.

The Bible doesn't say anything about stem-cell research or abortion, but that hasn't stopped people from using it to protest those things. I still don't understand what you mean by "killing in the name of religion is just an excuse." Are you saying that people who kill in the name of religion just want to kill and are looking for a reason to do so?

Yes.

[Alex+R 0]

i agree with you brother stevie..it is a cultural norm in his view which was defined in his view of his religion....

he was a chopf##k...and a youngster died at his hands...

Yes. To even suggest some of the responsibility lies with religion in general is just giving these murderers an excuse. I refuse to drink that kool-aid.

Blaming the act solely on religion may be overly simplistic, but I'm not sure how you think it gives them an excuse. I don't think anyone is holding the man any less accountable for his actions.

I can certainly see there are problems with how people follow a religion, but religion of itself is not the flaw...the flaw lies in the thinking of the individual or group.

There is no such thing as a pure unadulterated version of a religion. Religions, made by people, are constantly changed by people. The way people use and interpret a religion is the living incarnation of a religion. There can be more than one at a time, but that's what religion is.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I can certainly see there are problems with how people follow a religion, but religion of itself is not the flaw...the flaw lies in the thinking of the individual or group (a.k.a. RELIGION).

No...they would called, followers of that religion.

[Alex+R 0]

Wow ... i wonder what religion we can blame for Robert Pickton's behaviour..

Well, it involved pigs, so I'd say it wasn't Judaism or Islam.

Really it's quite different. There is OBVIOUSLY a religious motivation to this girl's murder.

I'd say cultural more than religious; honor killings don't always follow Islam. In some areas of the ME, it would apply to Christians as well as pre-Christian/Islam tribes. It's been influenced by religion, and some may attribute their own actions to it, but it's a complicated picture.

Indeed. I love that VJ taught me that. The history of honor killings may be the only thing I ever actually learned here. Still, he killed his daughter over wearing the hijab, so the shame she brought on her family was religion-related.

It may be a twisted understanding of religious law, but I've never read any Muslim scholar state that Quran endorses the killing of people...period. There are exremists who can try to make that argument, but as somebody said in that thread on imagining no religion, killing in the name of religion is just an excuse.

The Bible doesn't say anything about stem-cell research or abortion, but that hasn't stopped people from using it to protest those things. I still don't understand what you mean by "killing in the name of religion is just an excuse." Are you saying that people who kill in the name of religion just want to kill and are looking for a reason to do so?

Yes.

Steven, I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. There would never be so many suicide bombers. People are not naturally homicidal. I can't even believe you would try to make that argument fly.

[no name 1]

Wow ... i wonder what religion we can blame for Robert Pickton's behaviour..

Well, it involved pigs, so I'd say it wasn't Judaism or Islam.

Really it's quite different. There is OBVIOUSLY a religious motivation to this girl's murder.

I'd say cultural more than religious; honor killings don't always follow Islam. In some areas of the ME, it would apply to Christians as well as pre-Christian/Islam tribes. It's been influenced by religion, and some may attribute their own actions to it, but it's a complicated picture.

Indeed. I love that VJ taught me that. The history of honor killings may be the only thing I ever actually learned here. Still, he killed his daughter over wearing the hijab, so the shame she brought on her family was religion-related.

It may be a twisted understanding of religious law, but I've never read any Muslim scholar state that Quran endorses the killing of people...period. There are exremists who can try to make that argument, but as somebody said in that thread on imagining no religion, killing in the name of religion is just an excuse.

The Bible doesn't say anything about stem-cell research or abortion, but that hasn't stopped people from using it to protest those things. I still don't understand what you mean by "killing in the name of religion is just an excuse." Are you saying that people who kill in the name of religion just want to kill and are looking for a reason to do so?

Yes.

Oh really? Can you see into this father's mind? HE KILLED HER OVER A HIJAB (a relgious garment). Her brother (a MALE) is charged with obstructing justice!!! Why, cuz it was an honor killing over religion.

I can certainly see there are problems with how people follow a religion, but religion of itself is not the flaw...the flaw lies in the thinking of the individual or group (a.k.a. RELIGION).

No...they would called, followers of that religion.

And what do you think a cult is?

Edited December 11, 2007 by devilette

[Chica Yeyé 41]

There is no such thing as a pure unadulterated version of a religion. Religions, made by people, are constantly changed by people. The way people use and interpret a religion is the living incarnation of a religion. There can be more than one at a time, but that's what religion is.

And I keep liking you sister.

My .02: blaming an entire SET OF BELIEFS (whichever it is, there are chopf@cks in all of them) for a 'purely' human act such as murder is just effed up.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

i agree with you brother stevie..it is a cultural norm in his view which was defined in his view of his religion....

he was a chopf##k...and a youngster died at his hands...

Yes. To even suggest some of the responsibility lies with religion in general is just giving these murderers an excuse. I refuse to drink that kool-aid.

Blaming the act solely on religion may be overly simplistic, but I'm not sure how you think it gives them an excuse. I don't think anyone is holding the man any less accountable for his actions.

I can certainly see there are problems with how people follow a religion, but religion of itself is not the flaw...the flaw lies in the thinking of the individual or group.

There is no such thing as a pure unadulterated version of a religion. Religions, made by people, are constantly changed by people. The way people use and interpret a religion is the living incarnation of a religion. There can be more than one at a time, but that's what religion is.

Again, if someone here can find an Islamic scholar who has outright said the Quran espouses the killing one's own child, I'd like to read it.

[Jenn! 918]

Wow ... i wonder what religion we can blame for Robert Pickton's behaviour..

Well, it involved pigs, so I'd say it wasn't Judaism or Islam.

Really it's quite different. There is OBVIOUSLY a religious motivation to this girl's murder.

I'd say cultural more than religious; honor killings don't always follow Islam. In some areas of the ME, it would apply to Christians as well as pre-Christian/Islam tribes. It's been influenced by religion, and some may attribute their own actions to it, but it's a complicated picture.

Indeed. I love that VJ taught me that. The history of honor killings may be the only thing I ever actually learned here. Still, he killed his daughter over wearing the hijab, so the shame she brought on her family was religion-related.

It may be a twisted understanding of religious law, but I've never read any Muslim scholar state that Quran endorses the killing of people...period. There are exremists who can try to make that argument, but as somebody said in that thread on imagining no religion, killing in the name of religion is just an excuse.

The Bible doesn't say anything about stem-cell research or abortion, but that hasn't stopped people from using it to protest those things. I still don't understand what you mean by "killing in the name of religion is just an excuse." Are you saying that people who kill in the name of religion just want to kill and are looking for a reason to do so?

Yes.

I agree with you, Steven. Murder is about power.