Help understanding I-864 income requirements, no joint-sponsor, re-establishing domicile

[Save_Ferris 0]

Hi,

 

   I'm a USC living/working abroad with my spouse.  There is no possible co-sponsor for the I-864.  As I understand it, when re-establishing domicile, our current incomes will end when we leave the country and move to the US.  I am trying to understand what will happen if we file the I-130 at the embassy and I leave to go to the US ahead of my spouse.  If I go first, the domicile question will be fixed.  Before the next stage, if I secure income in the US that is over the 125% poverty level income amount, will that satisfy the requirements with only a month or two of work history?

 

I am having a terrible time finding relevant answers for this situation by searching key terms.  Most people write posts about joint-sponsors and having money/assets, which I don't have.

 

[LisaRee 11]

Honestly, it wont.

 

From MY experience, you have to show tax documents and W2s with the former being paramount. I didn't have either so i got a joint sponsor.

You either have to wait and file taxes for the next year or..find a sponsor.

 

Does your spouse work currently?

[Save_Ferris 0]

To answer your question, yes, both my spouse and I work.  We just happen to live and work in another country.  Our incomes will cease upon moving to the US and will not contribute toward substantiating the I-864.  My tax returns are current although all income is from abroad.

 

If it's not too personal of a question, why didn't this work in your experience?

 

I've read through 15 forum pages and can only go so far digging that way ~ it's so time consuming.  I've read numerous posts by Pushbrk that seem to suggest that vital information is coded into the language of the I-864 and it's instructions.  Thanks to his indirect tutelage, I've been reading over both, but in section 6, under Item 2, it states that:

Quote

You may include evidence supporting your claim about your expected income for the current year if you believe that submitting this evidence will help you establish ability to maintain sufficient income. You are not required to submit this evidence, however, unless specifically instructed to do so by a U.S. Government official. For example, you may include a recent letter from your employer, showing your employer’s address and telephone number, and indicating your annual salary. You may also provide pay stubs showing your income for the previous six months.

This does not establish that if I have only worked, for example, two or three months, that my income will be acknowledged and respected as maintaining sufficient income.  It gives no hard definition of how income is evaluated beyond the 125% above poverty level figures as a target.  I am looking for a better understanding of this fine point and whether meeting the $20,575 as a projection based on a limited time frame will really solidify our application.  How can I guarantee this?

 

I don't think it would be too hard to meet such a projection ($20,575) within a couple of months, but it all seems too simple and that's what's so troubling.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Save_Ferris

[LisaRee 11]

2 hours ago, Save_Ferris said:

To answer your question, yes, both my spouse and I work.  We just happen to live and work in another country.  Our incomes will cease upon moving to the US and will not contribute toward substantiating the I-864.  My tax returns are current although all income is from abroad.

 

If it's not too personal of a question, why didn't this work in your experience?

 

I've read through 15 forum pages and can only go so far digging that way ~ it's so time consuming.  I've read numerous posts by Pushbrk that seem to suggest that vital information is coded into the language of the I-864 and it's instructions.  Thanks to his indirect tutelage, I've been reading over both, but in section 6, under Item 2, it states that:

This does not establish that if I have only worked, for example, two or three months, that my income will be acknowledged and respected as maintaining sufficient income.  It gives no hard definition of how income is evaluated beyond the 125% above poverty level figures as a target.  I am looking for a better understanding of this fine point and whether meeting the $20,575 as a projection based on a limited time frame will really solidify our application.  How can I guarantee this?

 

I don't think it would be too hard to meet such a projection ($20,575) within a couple of months, but it all seems too simple and that's what's so troubling.

 

 

There's no hard definition and its understandable confusing. We went through the several leaves looking for something to certify the options that we had or were willing to undertake: foreign employment and assets (for my spouse mostly). We found that certifying the assets would bring so much headache that we abandoned the idea after some months. I worked, but my income was not up to the threshold required to file taxes per year and i was going back and forth to visit my husband so..the idea of constant employment was...

 

There are so many gray areas and very little guarantees in the document save certain numbers such as the poverty guidelines. Even then, just meeting the $20575 is not enough. You have to earn above that (without a joint sponsor) to be approved/granted at the embassy.

 

W2 is an indication that you currently work. Your tax docs show you have a history of maintaining a standard of living good enough to accommodate another person.IF YOU MADE (MORE THAN) THE REQUIRED AMOUNT: It doesn't matter that your employment ceases when you move back home, it matters that you filed taxes in those years abroad and you met the threshold.

 

 

[Villanelle 4,121]

Of course it matter if your employment ceases when you move back to the US!!

 

Anyway to the OP-

 

Read everything pushbrk wrote. Hes 100% accurate.

 

So yes, if you move back to the US and obtain a job that pays over the poverty line annually you qualify (numerically speaking). Its okay if you havent earned the entire amount that the poverty guidelines state, as long as you are employed and will meet that amount annually. The issue is more proving the income is going to be stable., with a new job they can consider it too new to be stable, however if you are working in the same field you worked in overseas, have degrees or certifications to do whatever job it is and are employed it should be fine.  You also can use assets.

[pushbrk 12,102]

2 hours ago, LisaRee said:

 

W2 is an indication that you currently work. Your tax docs show you have a history of maintaining a standard of living good enough to accommodate another person.IF YOU MADE (MORE THAN) THE REQUIRED AMOUNT: It doesn't matter that your employment ceases when you move back home, it matters that you filed taxes in those years abroad and you met the threshold.

 

 

The above paragraph is completely wrong.  

 

First,  The W2 form is an indication of how much you earned as an employee last year, (or any prior year) if you were employed in the USA.  It says NOTHING about your current income or employment.

 

Second, you do not qualify based on past employment income.  You could have made $500k last year and the past 10 years and lost your job last month.  If you don't have a job today, you don't have a "current income".

 

Third, ONLY income that will continue from the same source once in the USA can be counted, so of course, it matters that your employment ceases.  If your current employment will cease then for the purposes of the affidavit of support your current income is ZERO.  Yes, really.  Read the question and the instructions.

 

The OP would be wise to become an A-Student of the I-864 instructions.  That's the starting point, not searching threads here.

Edited May 10, 2018 by pushbrk

[pushbrk 12,102]

Two possible solutions.  Find a qualified joint sponsor, or come back to the US ahead of the foreign spouse and get a job.

[Save_Ferris 0]

4 hours ago, pushbrk said:

Two possible solutions.  Find a qualified joint sponsor, or come back to the US ahead of the foreign spouse and get a job.

I was hoping you'd make a comment on this thread, Pushbrk.  I know that those are my only two options and I appreciate your input.  However, my question is not answered within the structure of the I-864 documents.  I quoted the "I-864instr.PDF" section 6, Item 2 above as a citation of evidence.

 

I have two questions then:

My first question is about the qualifying time frame of working in the US:

 

9 hours ago, Save_Ferris said:

This does not establish that if I have only worked, for example, two or three months, that my income will be acknowledged and respected as maintaining sufficient income.  It gives no hard definition of how income is evaluated beyond the 125% above poverty level figures as a target.  I am looking for a better understanding of this fine point and whether meeting the $20,575 as a projection based on a limited time frame will really solidify our application.  How can I guarantee this?

 

In a phone consultation with a legal assistant, emphasis was placed on comparing my tax history income and whatever income I will achieve in the US.  Historically, my income registers at $0 due to the 2555 tax form.  In terms of foreign income, it does not report sufficient coverage for the 125% historically.

My second question is how much weight the foreign income history bears on evaluating whatever US income I achieve.

[pushbrk 12,102]

2 minutes ago, Save_Ferris said:

I was hoping you'd make a comment on this thread, Pushbrk.  I know that those are my only two options and I appreciate your input.  However, my question is not answered within the structure of the I-864 documents.  I quoted the "I-864instr.PDF" section 6, Item 2 above as a citation of evidence.

 

I have two questions then:

My first question is about the qualifying time frame of working in the US:

 

 

In a phone consultation with a legal assistant, emphasis was placed on comparing my tax history income and whatever income I will achieve in the US.  Historically, my income registers at $0 due to the 2555 tax form.  In terms of foreign income, it does not report sufficient coverage for the 125% historically.

My second question is how much weight the foreign income history bears on evaluating whatever US income I achieve.

Your questions cannot be answered with confidence, as each decision is a judgment call based on the totality of circumstances.  They can see more on your tax return than just line 22, if you provide a complete one or three.

 

I can only say that IF your NEW US income from a new job is comparable to your past income, or at least well over the requirement and in a similar occupation, that will be a positive.  The longer you've been working at your new job the better.

 

There are never ANY "guarantees" in this process.  Like it or not, it's best to make your plans and decisions with that in mind.

[Save_Ferris 0]

 

On 5/11/2018 at 1:17 PM, pushbrk said:

Your questions cannot be answered with confidence, as each decision is a judgment call based on the totality of circumstances.  They can see more on your tax return than just line 22, if you provide a complete one or three.

 

I can only say that IF your NEW US income from a new job is comparable to your past income, or at least well over the requirement and in a similar occupation, that will be a positive.  The longer you've been working at your new job the better.

 

There are never ANY "guarantees" in this process.  Like it or not, it's best to make your plans and decisions with that in mind.

 

I have been thinking about this since last week.  Your statements appear to be carefully worded and I wish to take note while inquiring further.  Thanks to everyone, especially Pushbrk, for the responses.

 

In review, I do not have a co-sponsor.  My potential plan is to file the I-130 in Korea, move to the US ahead of my spouse to re-establish domicile, get a job to completely cover the 125% income requirement, and complete the process.  My income abroad has not satisfied the income requirement since 2014, which is why I would count solely on new employment income in the US.

 

1) Why did you say income from a NEW US job should be "well over the requirement"? For example, would a yearly income of $25k be satisfactory to meet the $20,575 goal? Can you please define what you mean here?

 

2) One of the main reasons for moving to the US is to change my career.  I cannot stand what I do now.  It won't be available to me as a job in the US and I was due to enter a grad school program this year to facilitate a total career shift anyway.  What will be the repercussion of NOT having a "similar occupation"?

 

3) Like many people, I want to avoid long term, indefinite separation from my spouse.  So, in planning this process,  I do not wish to straddle two continents with separate bills and the inability to visit one another due to various prohibitions, be it cost, work/school schedules, etc, for a period any longer than about 6 months.  I was hoping, as time passed in the stages of processing, that my employment history in the US would be sufficient by the time I had to file the I-864 which would presumably be a few months after the I-130.  First, I wonder if what Damara said is the primary concern here:

 

On 5/11/2018 at 5:50 AM, Damara said:

 Its okay if you haven't earned the entire amount that the poverty guidelines state, as long as you are employed and will meet that amount annually. The issue is more proving the income is going to be stable. With a new job, they can consider it too new to be stable.

   Second, how  does one define "stable employment" for someone who has just returned to the US after  living/working outside the US for say, a decade?  This concept sounds exceptionally precarious and I would like to know if I am right in believing this could drag the process out longer than I would find acceptable.

 

4)   In November of 2016, I had a brief conversation with an employee at the embassy in Korea.  He suggested that being married for longer than 2 years should expedite the process to a matter of months.  He also suggested that saying anything about grad school in the immigration process was a bad idea.  Would a FAFSA/student loan application interfere with the I-130 process? Any thoughts on these statements?

 

Thanks again in advance.

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Save_Ferris

[NikLR 13,220]

1) 25k would be over the 20k currently required.  The higher the better obviously.  The bare minimum though can get denied. 

 

2) none.. no one cares. 

 

3) stable is subjective.  2-3 months in most places is not stable employment. Infact in many places 90 days or less means you can be let go for no reason at all.  Depends on the state. 6 months is more stable.  1 year is more stable.   The CR1/IR1 process takes 12-14 months currently.  Hopefully your wife can support herself in Korea to ease the financial burden you are feeling. 

 

4) being married longer does not make the process faster.  It just means a 10 year green card vs 2 year conditional card.  Also grad school means you're not working.  You can't count student loans as income.  You don't have a joint sponsor so you NEED income.

[rammstein 12]

I think I am in similar boat, but luckily for me, I joined the job in Aug 2017 and my salary from Aug-Dec 2017 (29k) is above the ~26k income. I moved from abroad, had filed 2555-ez since 2010. Pshbrk did recommend that I get a joint sponsor but I think my past incomes (well above the poverty line) should help. 

[vistajones 62]

Hi we're on the same boat as well. My husband (petitioner) has lived with me in Indonesia for almost 10 years.

I think in the end its all about your options. If the best you could do is 2-3 months of employment as proof of current income then you should send it as is. Cause it is what it is. You have lived in a different country, met someone and married. And now trying to get the family back home. If your I-130 approval takes as long as ours, you'd probably have more than 3 months of employment by the time you have to fill out the AOS.

They have a lot of considerations in deciding whether or not you are qualified to provide for your wife.

Of course finding a joint sponsor is ideal, but not everyone can find one, especially after years and years living abroad.

[pushbrk 12,102]

NikLR has already provided the correct answers.  Often hopes are dashed in the immigration process, particularly if the expectation/hopes are unrelated to actual information about the process.