Unrecognized Marriage and Divorce on I-130 application

[pushbrk 12,105]

6 hours ago, EandH0904 said:

Asking for a friend (I'm already married)! 

 

A woman I know is planning on getting married soon. Her fiance, the USC, was married and divorced before in the US - but the marriage took place only at a local mosque. Neither he or the wife ever "officially" got a marriage license, did not file taxes as married, did not have each other on bank accounts or anything. After a period of time, they got divorced by paperwork drawn up by the Imam at the same mosque. 

 

She is concerned about whether or not he will need "divorce papers" to file the I-130, as they have no legal divorce papers. Her fiance spoke with an attorney who stated that he does not need to mention this marriage/divorce, as it was never a legal marriage/divorce. 

 

My concern for her is that this could be seen as lying when filing out paperwork. Not only lying to obtain the marriage license in her country, but also to USCIS when filing paperwork as well. 

They both want to do the right thing and do not want to enter a marriage by "lying" but nothing was ever officially done in terms of their marriage. 

 

Do you have suggestions please? 

Thanks so much. 

No legal marriage, is NO MARRIAGE for US immigration purposes.  

[Illiria 980]

1 hour ago, pushbrk said:

No legal marriage, is NO MARRIAGE for US immigration purposes.  

Tell that to the k1 applicants denied due to too married from having a formal or traditional engagement. 

[pushbrk 12,105]

4 minutes ago, Illiria said:

Tell that to the k1 applicants denied due to too married from having a formal or traditional engagement. 

In this context, no legal marriage, no marriage.  We are talking about whether the person was or was not PREVIOUSLY MARRIED, not the marriage between the petitioner and beneficiary of a current immigration process.  

[Daisy.Chain 317]

Perhaps your friend could include both the marriage and divorce paperwork (even if it's only from their iman) with an explanatory letter to be on the safe side.

[pushbrk 12,105]

4 hours ago, Daisy.Chain said:

Perhaps your friend could include both the marriage and divorce paperwork (even if it's only from their iman) with an explanatory letter to be on the safe side.

That would open a real can of worms.  DO NOT do that.  The word "marriage" still means something to USCIS and it definitely does not refer to this kind of "non" marriage.

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by pushbrk

[Zzyzx 106]

13 hours ago, NuestraUnion said:

What type of paperwork was drawn up for the divorce?

 

I can see all types of legal ramifications because of that. The lawyer is thinking that since they didn't file taxes there is no evidence of them being married. But that divorce paperwork you speak is a paper trail that CAN be used to prove some type of union.

 

Tread lightly with this one.

There is no "paper trail" as the marriage and divorce were never filed at the courthouse.  Just because someone printed out a marriage certificate and divorce decree using Microsoft Word or Print Master, doesn't make it any more legal or valid.  

 

12 hours ago, missileman said:

This "marriage" mentioned by the OP was inside the US.  Background checks can reveal quite a lot about people.....

Since this marriage was never legal or filed correctly, a background check isn't going to reveal anything.  A background check can only reveal things that existed and technically this marriage never did.

 

12 hours ago, missileman said:

I strongly disagree with this.  Religious ceremonies alone are recognized by USCIS as marriages

In this context you are incorrect.  USCIS is simply following what is considered a legal marriage of the country in question.  Keep in mind marriage laws within the US and in other countries are different.  In the USA, religions don't have the permission to perform marriage ceremonies without following the proper legal steps and filing the proper paperwork.  In short government Trumps religion and has to follow the guidelines.  Not so in some other countries where religious ceremonies are considered a valid marriage in and of itself.  

Edited January 19, 2018 by Zzyzx

[Infidel 46]

Didn't you already post this? And you got a lot of good answers last time. This time you are spinning it to say you never got a marriage certificate. Last time, you said you did get one that was mailed to you from Jordan.

 

I assume this is your friend: 

 

 

I don't know how many times and in how many different ways you need to be told but you are still married. You registered the marriage in Jordan. It does not matter if it was registered in USA or not because that does not exist here. No Imam can grant you a legal divorce recognized by the government because of separation of Church and State.

 

Again, I know that isnt what you want to hear, but it is the truth. If you hide this from immigration, it is very likely they will find it and it will cause you even more problems.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Infidel

[Happytobe 164]

28 minutes ago, Infidel said:

Didn't you already post this? And you got a lot of good answers last time. This time you are spinning it to say you never got a marriage certificate. Last time, you said you did get one that was mailed to you from Jordan.

 

I assume this is your friend: 

 

 

I don't know how many times and in how many different ways you need to be told but you are still married. You registered the marriage in Jordan. It does not matter if it was registered in USA or not because that does not exist here. No Imam can grant you a legal divorce recognized by the government because of separation of Church and State.

 

Again, I know that isnt what you want to hear, but it is the truth. If you hide this from immigration, it is very likely they will find it and it will cause you even more problems.

A) the OP of this thread is asking for a female non-US person, whose fiancé is male and had the non-registered marriage/divorce in the US

 

B) the OP of the thread you are citing is a female US person

 

C) yes, similar but not the same persons. 

 

@EandH0904 I hope I clarified this OK

 

 

[EandH0904 1,184]

43 minutes ago, Infidel said:

I don't know how many times and in how many different ways you need to be told but you are still married. You registered the marriage in Jordan. It does not matter if it was registered in USA or not because that does not exist here. No Imam can grant you a legal divorce recognized by the government because of separation of Church and State.

 

Again, I know that isnt what you want to hear, but it is the truth. If you hide this from immigration, it is very likely they will find it and it will cause you even more problems.

Nope. Wasn't me. Never been to Jordan, neither has my friend. But thanks! 

[Derik-Lina 230]

22 hours ago, EandH0904 said:

Asking for a friend (I'm already married)! 

 

A woman I know is planning on getting married soon. Her fiance, the USC, was married and divorced before in the US - but the marriage took place only at a local mosque. Neither he or the wife ever "officially" got a marriage license, did not file taxes as married, did not have each other on bank accounts or anything. After a period of time, they got divorced by paperwork drawn up by the Imam at the same mosque. 

 

She is concerned about whether or not he will need "divorce papers" to file the I-130, as they have no legal divorce papers. Her fiance spoke with an attorney who stated that he does not need to mention this marriage/divorce, as it was never a legal marriage/divorce. 

 

My concern for her is that this could be seen as lying when filing out paperwork. Not only lying to obtain the marriage license in her country, but also to USCIS when filing paperwork as well. 

They both want to do the right thing and do not want to enter a marriage by "lying" but nothing was ever officially done in terms of their marriage. 

 

Do you have suggestions please? 

Thanks so much. 

Honesty applauded here. Your friend is doing the right thing by asking; IMO Mosque Marriages are not considered legal here nor in Morocco. There are no legal documents to prove "Marriage". Look up the definition of marriage in US Immigration Law. Such marriage is not recognized in Morocco neither, a Muslim country. It is looked at as Zawaj lmot3a and both parties can not receive any benefits from each other. Actually, mothers can not get birth certificates for their children, in Morocco that is. Again, IMO I would only go by what is considered legal with a legal document. That Marriage is not nor was legal. If asked your friend can say just what it was and let it be. It might confuse some or open a can or worms, but lying is worse. Better be truthful and risk scarifying few months, if any, of investigation or what not, than being denied a Visa altogether.

Salam and best of luck again. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Derick

[noraliz73 243]

If the marriage and divorce took place in the US and was never legalized by a marriage license being given by a municipality and signed by a judge, it is not considered a marriage in the US.  If that had happened in another country, they (immigration) would consider her too married for the K1 and not married enough for the spousal visa.  I know that whole thing sounds illogical.  But you are asking about what is considered a marriage here in the USA, not in another country.  Although Islamic marriage is considered valid among Muslims, it is not seen as legally binding by US authorities on US soil.  As a matter of fact, where I work (a prison), lots of these guys have 4 Islamic wives with divorce papers signed by an imam from a mosque.  That means absolutely nothing here!  As long as what we are talking about took place 100% in the USA, you do not have to mention it.  Of course, I would hope any couple would mention all of those things to each other!!!!  I do think that immigration is mostly worried about civil marriages and, if you apply for a K1, to make sure you have not done anything they would consider a marriage ceremony that would make you ineligible for a K1.  I hope she has good luck!

[Daisy.Chain 317]

17 hours ago, pushbrk said:

That would open a real can of worms.  DO NOT do that.  The word "marriage" still means something to USCIS and it definitely does not refer to this kind of "non" marriage.

 

I disagree. If she and her ex considered themselves married and also had religious paperwork, it would be better to be clear than be caught hiding it. OP could also call USCIS and ask what they would prefer.

[pushbrk 12,105]

10 hours ago, Daisy.Chain said:

I disagree. If she and her ex considered themselves married and also had religious paperwork, it would be better to be clear than be caught hiding it. OP could also call USCIS and ask what they would prefer.

Another really terrible idea.  Call the misinformation line?  I don't think so.  Do you really think an operator reading from a script, or speculating wildly, will give better advice than the SENIOR senior members here will?  Really?

[Jeanne Adil 1,651]

Marriage here by IMAM can be considered legal/ consumation of the marriage by sleeping together

if in  Morocco it is definitely legal marriage

it is just as legal as marriage in  a temple or church

depending on the state they lived in they could also be married under "common law marriage"

 

[pushbrk 12,105]

8 hours ago, adil-rafa said:

Marriage here by IMAM can be considered legal/ consumation of the marriage by sleeping together

if in  Morocco it is definitely legal marriage

it is just as legal as marriage in  a temple or church

depending on the state they lived in they could also be married under "common law marriage"

 

Of course an Imam is allowed to perform a legal marriage.  When he does so for a couple that has no marriage license, then they are not legally and lawfully married.  Many people around the world consider themselves married "in the eyes of God or the Church" when they are not legally married.  Yes, a couple can be "too married" for a fiance visa while not married enough for a spouse visa, BUT, BUT, BUT that is not the issue we are discussing.

The question is about a past NON "marriage" and whether to list it and document it as a "legal marriage" on an I-130 or other immigration forms.  The answer is clearly NO, NO, NO.