Third Country National (TCN) U.S. tourist visa application from U.S. consulate in Vancouver

[Scott Mc 0]

Hello.  I am a Canadian citizen and U.S. permanent resident, and will be traveling to Vancouver shortly to spend some time there with my fiancee who is from the Philippines as she already has a Canadian multi-entry visitor visa.  We were hoping while there to also visit the U.S. consulate in Vancouver to apply for a U.S. tourist visa for her, in the hopes that she could then join me on my return journey from Vancouver to my residence in Texas for a visit there as well.

This would be a TCN application for her, as we would be doing it at the U.S. consulate in Vancouver as opposed to the Manila consulate.  We could alternatively try to do same application for her in Manila, however it would definitely be more convenient and easier for us to apply in Vancouver as we will both be visiting there anyway, and would save us time and cost of additional flights and hotels from within the Philippines as she lives in a different part of The Philippines.  She was previously rejected for same visa recently in Manila, however we believe we can legitimately argue her case at any consulate location, and prove her intent to return to her home country etc. with a stronger interview next attempt and different evidence.

Can you please advise if an attempted TCN U.S. tourist visa application would be advisable in our case?    What might be our chances for acceptance versus just trying again in Manila?

[az2014 381]

You can try, but what ties does she have to Canada? None. Sounds like an easy refusal.

[jan22 2,889]

With a recent denial in her home country, where they are more familiar with the proof of ties she would be presenting, there is no real chance that she would be approved in Canada.  If you want to try again, it should be in Manilla.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2017 by jan22

[Boiler 43,362]

Depends on the new evidence, what is it.

[AM268 23]

As others suggest she will most likely be denied the Tourist Visa because she is engaged to someone living in the states. You should probably look into moving that wedding forward and joining the F2A line. That will take about 2 years. 

[jan22 2,889]

30 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Depends on the new evidence, what is it.

New evidence is best presented at the home country embassy where the visa was just recently denied.  An officer in another country is not able to evaluate the new evidence and how it alters the situation seen during the first interview as well as one in the home country could.  

[Scott Mc 0]

Her ties to Canada don't matter in this case, it's ties to Philippines that matter as that is her home country and the country she would be returning to from U.S., not Canada where she would just be visiting prior to that.

Not sure they would be any more familiar with what her ties to Philippines are in Manila versus Vancouver U.S. consulate.  We are talking about basic concepts like a young son at home, the fact she has traveled internationally many times including to Canada and always returned within her visa, and the fact she is already busy in the Philippines planning our wedding there so needs to return for that.  

 

She was unable to even mention these things to the previous consular officer in Manila because he dismissed her after finding out two items - that I provide her only financial support (she would state this differently next time) and that I have not pursued my U.S> citizenship yet even though I'm a permanent resident (which I can't because I haven;t fullfilled consecutive residency requirement but apparently that didn't matter to him).  She knows multiple people who hav been summarily rejected like this in Manila and then succeeded in other countries, yet on the other hand both my lawyer and the Vancouver consulate automated email reply state they "prefer" applicants apply from their home country with no real explanation.  

[Boiler 43,362]

Children are left behind all the time, presumably the child is not with her in Canada so that rather proves that point.

 

Nothing else is a tie, are you planning to move to PI? If so maybe that would help.

[Scott Mc 0]

She would only be visiting Canada with me for about a week, and currently lives with her child and cares for him, so to me that proves a tie back home.  I don't understand how a consistent record of returning there after working and visiting in other countries on other visas, as well as her requirement to plan for and ATTEND our already booked wedding in the Philippines in June does not also work in her favor? 

I'd also appreciate if Jan22, or someone else, can elaborate for me how evidence of her ties is better evaluated by U.S. consulate staff in Manila versus Vancouver?  These ties do not require any kind of Philippines-specific knowledge.

Still trying to figure out why the consulate and my lawyer are saying to re-apply in her home country despite anecdotal evidence to the contrary (Manila consulate known for being extra tough and my fiancee alone knows 3-4 Philippines citizens who were rejected in Manila and then accepted in other countries for U.S. visas)....

[Boiler 43,362]

Not going to happen in a week, local Consulate will understand local ties better and looks suspiciously like Consulate shopping.

 

 

[KierenHby 897]

27 minutes ago, Scott Mc said:

Still trying to figure out why the consulate and my lawyer are saying to re-apply in her home country despite anecdotal evidence to the contrary (Manila consulate known for being extra tough and my fiancee alone knows 3-4 Philippines citizens who were rejected in Manila and then accepted in other countries for U.S. visas)....

Sounds like consulate shopping 

[jan22 2,889]

On 1/14/2017 at 11:44 AM, Scott Mc said:

She would only be visiting Canada with me for about a week, and currently lives with her child and cares for him, so to me that proves a tie back home.  I don't understand how a consistent record of returning there after working and visiting in other countries on other visas, as well as her requirement to plan for and ATTEND our already booked wedding in the Philippines in June does not also work in her favor? 

I'd also appreciate if Jan22, or someone else, can elaborate for me how evidence of her ties is better evaluated by U.S. consulate staff in Manila versus Vancouver?  These ties do not require any kind of Philippines-specific knowledge.

Still trying to figure out why the consulate and my lawyer are saying to re-apply in her home country despite anecdotal evidence to the contrary (Manila consulate known for being extra tough and my fiancee alone knows 3-4 Philippines citizens who were rejected in Manila and then accepted in other countries for U.S. visas)....

I'll try.  However, the reasons that you cite  as evidence of strong ties to the Philippines are not ones that will have changed between the visa applications, making itless likely that an officer in Vancouver is going to issue over a recent denial in Manila, anecdotal  evidence to  the contrary.  Nobody kows all of the issues in specific visa cases, making it impossible to accurately compare two or more cases.  My opinion.

 

While the issues you cite as strong ties are not specifically country specific, they are influenced by local cultural norms.  For eample, you think the presence of a young son is an automatic reason to ensure someone returns home, based on  your family/cutural norms.  That is not a "given" in many countries, including the Philippines.   Many parents leave their children in a home country to work in another, legally or otherwise, believing they are providing a better life for them. You mention that your fiance previously returned home after working internationally.  Likely her son was not with her then, so it shows that she is willing to try to provide for him even if it means she must leave him. You also said she is "currently" living with him and caring for  him, indicating that she has not always been able to do that.  (Not judging--just trying to help you see entire picture from a visa perspective).  Her visa application would have shown her work pattern inside and outside the Philippines, whether the officer asked about it or not.  Information on these types of issues are best adjudicated in the home country or country of residence than a third country after a denial in the home country.

 

`You mentioned the quick denial after only a couple of questions; however, in addition to the information on the application form, those two questions actually provided a great deal of information.  For example, the information that you are her sole financial support showed that she has no/limited financial  reasons to return to the Philippines -- no job, etc. It is likely cheaper for you to support her with you in the US, even if it means still sending some money back to support her son.  You not at least  being in the processing of acquiring US  citizenship (regardless of the  reason) means that the legal means for your fiance to immigrate to the US will take a couple of years -- much longer than it would be for a spouse of a US citizen -- so some couples are more wlling to try to find means to make the wait apart shorter, whether those means are legal or not (again -- not saying this is what you are planning -- just showing you a different view).

 

Hope this helps at least a  little.....even though it isn't what you want to hear.  The decision, of course, is yours/hers.

[Scott Mc 0]

26 minutes ago, jan22 said:

I'll try.  However, the reasons that you cite  as evidence of strong ties to the Philippines are not ones that will have changed between the visa applications, making itless likely that an officer in Vancouver is going to issue over a recent denial in Manila, anecdotal  evidence to  the contrary.  Nobody kows all of the issues in specific visa cases, making it impossible to accurately compare two or more cases.  My opinion.

 

While the issues you cite as strong ties are not specifically country specific, they are influenced by local cultural norms.  For eample, you think the presence of a young son is an automatic reason to ensure someone returns home, based on  your family/cutural norms.  That is not a "given" in many countries, including the Philippines.   Many parents leave their children in a home country to work in another, legally or otherwise, believing they are providing a better life for them. You mention that your fiance previously returned home after working internationally.  Likely her son was not with her then, so it shows that she is willing to try to provide for him even if it means she must leave him. You also said she is "currently" living with him and caring for  him, indicating that she has not always been able to do that.  (Not judging--just trying to help you see entire picture from a visa perspective).  Her visa application would have shown her work pattern inside and outside the Philippines, whether the officer asked about it or not.  Information on these types of issues are best adjudicated in the home country or country of residence than a third country after a denial in the home country.

 

`You mentioned the quick denial after only a couple of questions; however, in addition to the information on the application form, those two questions actually provided a great deal of information.  For example, the information that you are her sole financial support showed that she has no/limited financial  reasons to return to the Philippines -- no job, etc. It is likely cheaper for you to support her with you in the US, even if it means still sending some money back to support her son.  You not at least  being in the processing of acquiring US  citizenship (regardless of the  reason) means that the legal means for your fiance to immigrate to the US will take a couple of years -- much longer than it would be for a spouse of a US citizen -- so some couples are more wlling to try to find means to make the wait apart shorter, whether those means are legal or not (again -- not saying this is what you are planning -- just showing you a different view).

 

Hope this helps at least a  little.....even though it isn't what you want to hear.  The decision, of course, is yours/hers.

jan22 well thought out and well explained response.  Much appreciated.  What I still don't feel has been addressed is the potentiality that the U.S. consulate in Vancouver would not so much have the same urgency to move quickly through a large queue of similar cases as they would in Manila, making it perhaps more likely that she would be given a longer and fairer consideration by the agent at the Vancouver U.S. consulate (which is only bolstered by the various Philippines citizens who have succeeded elsewhere).  While I do understand the cons of doing a TCN application like that, I wonder if you see this also as a positive and if it may outweigh the cons?

Whichever location we choose, the other big question is how to improve our case next time around?  Beyond the obvious of better coaching regarding how to answer questions and volunteer key points that are not asked for, as well as improve her appearance/confidence/demeanour, what else can we try?  Should we attempt to "create" a half-true employment situation for her there in her home country to bolster ties?

[KierenHby 897]

52 minutes ago, Scott Mc said:

jan22 well thought out and well explained response.  Much appreciated.  What I still don't feel has been addressed is the potentiality that the U.S. consulate in Vancouver would not so much have the same urgency to move quickly through a large queue of similar cases as they would in Manila, making it perhaps more likely that she would be given a longer and fairer consideration by the agent at the Vancouver U.S. consulate (which is only bolstered by the various Philippines citizens who have succeeded elsewhere).  While I do understand the cons of doing a TCN application like that, I wonder if you see this also as a positive and if it may outweigh the cons?

Whichever location we choose, the other big question is how to improve our case next time around?  Beyond the obvious of better coaching regarding how to answer questions and volunteer key points that are not asked for, as well as improve her appearance/confidence/demeanour, what else can we try?  Should we attempt to "create" a half-true employment situation for her there in her home country to bolster ties?

Wow. Create a half true situation? 

If I could jump in.. the US consulate in Vancouver would give a B2 applicant as similar urgency as the one in Manilla. Do you have any idea of the number of nonimmigrant applications USC Vancouver receives for adjudication? I frequent other forums where it is customary for many TCNs in the US, primarily Indians, who go to Canada for US visas, including to Vancouver. 

As jan22 could probably vouch, better coaching does not help. An interview is best approached as a free-flowing conversation between an applicant and CO; anything rehearsed would simply throw that off. Nothing is as effective as established ties to home. 'Creating' a half true employment is a fancy term for lying! 

[jan22 2,889]

5 hours ago, Scott Mc said:

jan22 well thought out and well explained response.  Much appreciated.  What I still don't feel has been addressed is the potentiality that the U.S. consulate in Vancouver would not so much have the same urgency to move quickly through a large queue of similar cases as they would in Manila, making it perhaps more likely that she would be given a longer and fairer consideration by the agent at the Vancouver U.S. consulate (which is only bolstered by the various Philippines citizens who have succeeded elsewhere).  While I do understand the cons of doing a TCN application like that, I wonder if you see this also as a positive and if it may outweigh the cons?

Whichever location we choose, the other big question is how to improve our case next time around?  Beyond the obvious of better coaching regarding how to answer questions and volunteer key points that are not asked for, as well as improve her appearance/confidence/demeanour, what else can we try?  Should we attempt to "create" a half-true employment situation for her there in her home country to bolster ties?

"The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" should be the motto of every visa applicant at all times.  The officer in Vancouver will have access to the previous application and the interviewing officer's  as notes, so a sudden change of employment status will not be credible at all.  Seeking to invent a change to appear more qualified will most likely backfire badly, whether done in Vancouver or Manila.

 

And, no, the difference in volume of applicants does not mean a longer/slower interview in Canada.  There are a lot more officers in Manila than in Vancouver, so the daily number of interviews per officer does not vary that much at most embassies/consulates.  Besides, a longer/slower interview does not mean the visa would be issued....the situation is what it is, no matter the number of questions asked or the speed of the interview:  recent denial in home country, no apparent strong ties to that country, no ties at all to the country where you are applying, a US LPR fiance who is providing full financial support, etc.