Has anyone side loaded a CR1 RFE?

[amul 229]

Rest reads as follows:

 

If married under the law of muslim marriage, you must submit a copy of your Marriage Contract (Nikah Nama) with an English translation.

If married under the accordance of Special Marriage Act, you must submit a copy of your Certificate of Marriage issued by appropriate Marriage Officer. 

 

Our Certificate of Registration of Marriage clearly has the wording:

 

"This is to certify that an application for the registration of marriage under the Uttar Pradesh Hindu Marriage Registration Rule, 1973 pertaining the marriage of...."

 

As well as a Registrar Hindu Marriage-Fifth seal, name of the Hindu Marriage registrar, his signature and his seal number -- I was thinking that this would clearly show which marriage act applies to us.  

 

 

[amul 229]

Ok, a google image search pulled up some marriage certificates that looks identical to ours -- http://indiancourtmarriage.in/certificates.php (first two from the left, 1st and 3rd pic in the middle, both pics at the bottom). The only difference is our paper has the words Certificate of Registration of Marriage and not Marriage Certificate as seen in these.

 

Could this simply be a mis-wording by the courthouse in that area?

[Ontarkie 13,915]

~~Duplicate threads merged. Please do not start more then one thread for the same topic.~~

[amul 229]

1 minute ago, Ontarkie said:

~~Duplicate threads merged. Please do not start more then one thread for the same topic.~~

Apologies, the content was different (I assumed), one was for side loading an RFE and the other is country specific Memorandum of Marriage conundrum. I could not change the topic to cover both, hence I wanted to ask about it. Thank you.

[geowrian 22,335]

Sorry, but I'm not familiar with marriages in India. However, it sounds like the document you have is a about the registration of a marriage, not the certification of one. I think the closest comparison is to that of a marriage license in the US. What it sounds like they are asking for is the equivalent of a marriage certificate. This is the document that proves a marriage was actually performed and the people involved are legally married.

 

The wording on your document ("This is to certify that an application for the registration...") implies that that it's only proof that you applied for registration. What you need is actual proof that it was successfully registered.

 

At least that's my take. I'm sure somebody more familiar with the process can confirm this...or tell me I'm way off. 

 

Some reference material: https://www.path2usa.com/how-to-get-indian-marriage-certificate

Edited January 12, 2017 by geowrian

[amul 229]

Just now, geowrian said:

Sorry, but I'm not familiar with marriages in India. However, it sounds like the document you have is a about the registration of a marriage, not the certification of one. I think the closest comparison is to that of a marriage license in the US. What it sounds like they are asking for is the equivalent of a marriage certificate. This is the document that proves a marriage was actually performed and the people involved are legally married.

 

The wording on your document ("This is to certify that an application for the registration...") implies that that it's only proof that you applied for registration. What you need is actual proof that it was successfully registered.

 

At least that's my take. I'm sure somebody more familiar with the process can confirm this...or tell me I'm way off. 

Ugh, ok -- this is all we were handed after waiting for hours and our finger prints were taken and we signed documents. Thank you so much for the help 

[agripa 100]

Hey Amul,

 

I'm a bit scared as I submitted something very similar to yours for my I-130 application. It's from the state of Karnataka and is basically titled "Certificate of Registration of Hindu Marriage". I spoke with a cousin who went through this process 4 years ago and here's what he said (via his lawyer) -

 

Quote

The memorandum of marriage is a much larger document that documents the marriage process and needs to be created at the time of the wedding. I had done a bit of research when we got this RFE (only in the context of Indian marriages tho). The Hindu Marriage Act in India does not require a Mem of Marriage I believe other religions do (you'll need to check). Each state has its own rules governing the submission of docs related to supporting a marriage. The Union of India has deferred to the states the documentary evidence needed to complete a Marriage contract. The states of Maharashtra and Karnataka for example consider the Marriage Certificate the ultimate proof of Hindu marriage and as such there is no Mem of Marriage needed or created. 

I spoke to an attorney in India and was advised that this Marriage Certificate is considered the effective proof of registration of a marriage in India. I was able to dig up a couple of publications from the Govt of India website (see below) that indicate that the Central Govt has left the determination of the registration of Hindu marriages to the states under the purview of associated State 

The lawyer indicated that the memorandum that the RFE mentions is the documentation that needs to be submitted at the Registrar’s office to obtain the Certificate and is usually comprised of some marriage photographs, proof of age and residence (such as birth certificate, passport and driving license) and a copy of the wedding invitation. The Certificate is actual proof of the registration. 

When I registered my marriage we had to fill out this application and provide identification, as well as a photograph of us with garlands. I believe all of this together constitutes a "memorandum of marriage". A copy of this application can be seen here for the state of Karnataka. My basic gut feeling here is that USCIS dislikes the term "Certificate of Registration" and as a result wants to see this memorandum. Unfortunately, if I remember correctly, we never received a copy of this application; the registrar kept this and gave us this Certificate. I'm going to ask my wife if she can go back and get it. My cousin's lawyer submitted the following for the RFE, which ultimately did work for him -

1. Photos of the wedding including your and your spouse with garlands.
2. Sworn affidavit from your priest who performed the ceremony.
3. Another copy of the certificate.

I'll let you know what I hear back from my wife.

[Mary Lou 670]

Amul

I wish i could add something here, but i know nothing of Indian marriages. My interpretation of the document looks more like a registration only, like geowrian said. 

As for the religious photos from your marriage, i guess all you can send them is the photos from your court marriage with an explanation, someone else may know better but thats the only thing i can think of to do.

[agripa 100]

Sorry, my cousin also sent a copy of his wedding invitation. In summary, he sent -

1. Photos of the wedding ceremony including pictures of you and your spouse with garlands and tying the wedding necklace.
2. Sworn affidavit from priest and/or others who attended the wedding.
3. Copy of the wedding invitation.
4. Another copy of the certificate

Did you send any of 1-3? I'll let you know when I hear back from my wife.

[agripa 100]

Unfortunately, I'm starting to think that some Indian state governments simply use the words "Certificate of Registration of Marriage" as opposed to "Marriage Certificate"; I'm not sure how to overcome this per say.

[amul 229]

1 hour ago, Mary Lou said:

Amul

I wish i could add something here, but i know nothing of Indian marriages. My interpretation of the document looks more like a registration only, like geowrian said. 

As for the religious photos from your marriage, i guess all you can send them is the photos from your court marriage with an explanation, someone else may know better but thats the only thing i can think of to do.

At this point, this is the certificate that was given to us. We were told at the courthouse this is what they issue to all who get married there. I believe this comes down to a wording issue --  It is worded this way, but this *is* the certificate. It has everything right down to our pictures, just like the ones I found online. What a conundrum 

 

Thanks a million though, the support makes me not feel so alone 

[amul 229]

1 hour ago, agripa said:

Sorry, my cousin also sent a copy of his wedding invitation. In summary, he sent -

1. Photos of the wedding ceremony including pictures of you and your spouse with garlands and tying the wedding necklace.
2. Sworn affidavit from priest and/or others who attended the wedding.
3. Copy of the wedding invitation.
4. Another copy of the certificate

Did you send any of 1-3? I'll let you know when I hear back from my wife.

No we did not because we had a simple court marriage and then headed to our honeymoon. So now what? Our certificate is not good enough and the way we married is not good enough...  

[amul 229]

52 minutes ago, agripa said:

Unfortunately, I'm starting to think that some Indian state governments simply use the words "Certificate of Registration of Marriage" as opposed to "Marriage Certificate"; I'm not sure how to overcome this per say.

Let us see what my husband finds out tomorrow, I mean something will have to give, no? We cannot get married *again* since we are already married -- oy vey! 

[amul 229]

2 hours ago, agripa said:

Hey Amul,

 

I'm a bit scared as I submitted something very similar to yours for my I-130 application. It's from the state of Karnataka and is basically titled "Certificate of Registration of Hindu Marriage". I spoke with a cousin who went through this process 4 years ago and here's what he said (via his lawyer) -

 

When I registered my marriage we had to fill out this application and provide identification, as well as a photograph of us with garlands. I believe all of this together constitutes a "memorandum of marriage". A copy of this application can be seen here for the state of Karnataka. My basic gut feeling here is that USCIS dislikes the term "Certificate of Registration" and as a result wants to see this memorandum. Unfortunately, if I remember correctly, we never received a copy of this application; the registrar kept this and gave us this Certificate. I'm going to ask my wife if she can go back and get it. My cousin's lawyer submitted the following for the RFE, which ultimately did work for him -

1. Photos of the wedding including your and your spouse with garlands.
2. Sworn affidavit from your priest who performed the ceremony.
3. Another copy of the certificate.

I'll let you know what I hear back from my wife.

Great info -- thank you so much. Please stay in touch 

[Jaanu2017 1]

14 hours ago, amul said:

Sure, here you go.

 

 

It seems like the adjudicator officer is VERY tough on your case and obviously s/he has made a mistake. In India, that's all people get what you have submitted-Marriage Certificate. I think he got confused with muslim marriages so to ask for memorandum of marriage. Secondly, there is no where in laws it states that one MUST need to send pictures of religious/tradition wedding...and in your case there is no religious/tradition marriage...so whey you are asked to present pictures of tradition/religious marriage??? It does seem you would have a hard road ahead....All you could do is- to explain in an affidavit that you are married in civil court and not in religious/tradition marriage, so obviously you can not submit pictures from religious/traditional marriage. Also, that there is no any memorandum of marriage in India....What people get after civil marriage is a marriage certificate like over here in the US. That's all you can do, which truth as well...

 

Just on the side note- it would be better for you guys to have religious/traditional wedding ceremony as soon as possible; otherwise you will be given very hard time in India...and probably could look for a denial as well. I'm going thru all this now....It doesn't matter what other truck loads of evidence you have, they are seemed to be rejecting everything in the lack of traditional marriage. I know my case has had many red flags, but they were more focused on traditional/religious wedding which I did not.