Why would the Chicago PD not see a hate crime?

[smilesammich 10,727]

2 minutes ago, MarkPerry said:

Don't go getting all twisted  and trying to make things up in your mind.   Take a deep breath.

took a deep breath, you're still going to need a fact or two linking blm to terrorist activity to get them on any watch list. would love to know what exactly i'm twisting. 

[eieio 1,594]

I have to make a correction.

 

BLM is a racist organization that is getting close to a terrorist organization. If they continue in their ways it is just a matter of time.  They need to disavow these particular members....and maybe they already have?

 

We will see.

[smilesammich 10,727]

18 minutes ago, MarkPerry said:

I think the Dylan Roof dude is mentally insane, I heard him talk, he is not right in the head.  I have no issue giving him the needle, people like that can't live in society.  I don't think he is racist, I have not followed him much, but I thought he had a best friend as a buddy.   I think him trying to act like a racist is part of his mental illness. 

racists are mentally ill. every last one of them.

 

anyone that can torture another human being..also mentally ill. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, eieio said:

I have to make a correction.

 

BLM is a racist organization that is getting close to a terrorist organization. If they continue in their ways it is just a matter of time.  They need to disavow these particular members....and maybe they already have?

 

We will see.

where's the correction?

[eieio 1,594]

Sorry.....clarification.

[MarkPerry 488]

6 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

took a deep breath, you're still going to need a fact or two linking blm to terrorist activity to get them on any watch list. would love to know what exactly i'm twisting. 

If you want to discuss is BLM a terrorist organization, then start a new thread, I will gladly reply.  As of now I am wanting to keep this subject on the way 4 sub human animals tortured a mentally ill person.

[yuna628 9,527]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

racists are mentally ill. every last one of them.

 

anyone that can torture another human being..also mentally ill. 

I think that racist Nazis aren't mentally ill, but they are by definition evil human beings. But to call them mentally ill seems as if they have a true illness of the mind that might be cured with love, hugs, psychotherapy, and drugs. Punk Nazi kid was examined and found mentally sound to stand trial. He knows right from wrong. He knows what he has done, is proud of what he has done, and has no remorse like any other terrorist Nazi. We often think that in order to do the most unspeakable acts, that one must be mentally ill, but I'd rather not make excuses for some human wastes of life.

[smilesammich 10,727]

2 minutes ago, MarkPerry said:

If you want to discuss is BLM a terrorist organization, then start a new thread, I will gladly reply.  As of now I am wanting to keep this subject on the way 4 sub human animals tortured a mentally ill person.

lol. go back read the thread, i didn't start the blm/terrorist convo within this thread. absolutely adorable that you think you control the discussion. 

 

and now you want to go into detail about the way the victim was tortured? sort of sick if you ask me. good thing you aren't huh.

[bcking 3,157]

19 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

racists are mentally ill. every last one of them.

 

anyone that can torture another human being..also mentally ill. 

I don't really know if I would want to call them mentally ill. I think we need some better terminology. 

 

To me I would prefer to reserve "Mentally ill" for people who I believe are not necessarily responsible for their actions and are therefore not necessarily "evil" just because they did something evil. To call them mentally ill in a way "excuses" them, which I don't want to do for a racist person, or a person that tortures another human.

 

If they can understand what they did, can explain why they did it, have no remorse (other than remorse for getting caught) etc... I think the person is evil but not mentally ill. Not sure psychiatrists would agree with me but I just don't think those people deserve our time and effort trying to "fix" them.

 

EDIT: I realize that the actual definition of mental illness would probably fit with these people because they have behaviors and thoughts that make it difficult for them to function in society...I just don't necessarily agree with that. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by bcking

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, yuna628 said:

I think that racist Nazis aren't mentally ill, but they are by definition evil human beings. But to call them mentally ill seems as if they have a true illness of the mind that might be cured with love, hugs, psychotherapy, and drugs. Punk Nazi kid was examined and found mentally sound to stand trial. He knows right from wrong. He knows what he has done, is proud of what he has done, and has no remorse like any other terrorist Nazi. We often think that in order to do the most unspeakable acts, that one must be mentally ill, but I'd rather not make excuses for some human wastes of life.

adults who harbor racist ideals are not mentally sound. mental illness as a blanket term doesn't mean a person cannot convicted of a crime due to insanity.

nazis are a whole different sack of potatoes. military mind breaks down the individual and reforms them as a part of the unit. i often wonder how many nazis would have carried out such terrible acts on their own, if they had not been a part of the nazi movement. even now, when nazi organizations are formed - it is out shared feelings of inadequacy in solitude and a need to feel accepted by one's own. i certainly think that anyone who holds nazi ideals is capable of change, especially if they're young. i can't automatically write off a racist as incapable of growth.

 

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, bcking said:

I don't really know if I would want to call them mentally ill. I think we need some better terminology. 

 

To me I would prefer to reserve "Mentally ill" for people who I believe are not necessarily responsible for their actions and are therefore not necessarily "evil" just because they did something evil. To call them mentally ill in a way "excuses" them, which I don't want to do for a racist person, or a person that tortures another human.

 

If they can understand what they did, can explain why they did it, have no remorse (other than remorse for getting caught) etc... I think the person is evil but not mentally ill. Not sure psychiatrists would agree with me but I just don't think those people deserve our time and effort trying to "fix" them.

 

i think that has more to do with how we view mental illness in this country. someone having a mental illness doesn't excuse their behavior but should signify a need for outside intervention, of an issue with their mental stability. human beings are not 'evil' or 'good'. if they were, you could go to an exorcist the same as you would a dermatologist. 

 

i'm not excusing anything in saying that people capable of kidnapping and torturing are certain to have mental illness. it's being realistic. a mental illness can be dealt with, it can be properly addressed. we need to focus more on addressing mental illness before such terrible acts are carried out. i'm not sure exactly how we can prepare to address 'evil'.

[yuna628 9,527]

4 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

 

i think that has more to do with how we view mental illness in this country. someone having a mental illness doesn't excuse their behavior but should signify a need for outside intervention, of an issue with their mental stability. human beings are not 'evil' or 'good'. if they were, you could go to an exorcist the same as you would a dermatologist. 

 

i'm not excusing anything in saying that people capable of kidnapping and torturing are certain to have mental illness. it's being realistic. a mental illness can be dealt with, it can be properly addressed. we need to focus more on addressing mental illness before such terrible acts are carried out. i'm not sure exactly how we can prepare to address 'evil'.

I think I have a slightly different view of good vs evil. Being evil doesn't mean you're demon possessed (not that I actually believe in the often abusive practice of exorcism), being evil simply means you have no desire whatsoever to be a good person in the terms of wanting to maim, torture, murder, abuse, and cause horrific suffering etc. The person's heart is full of nothing but hatred and greed. We unfortunately cannot prepare to address evil. It's always existed; what we can do is try to raise our children to live to a higher moral standard, to be a good person, and recognize if there are truly early signs of mental illness and seek treatment. For a person such as him, I don't think there is truly any cure or rehabilitation. That's just how I look at it... don't have any hopeful viewpoint of such individuals.

[bcking 3,157]

21 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

 

i think that has more to do with how we view mental illness in this country. someone having a mental illness doesn't excuse their behavior but should signify a need for outside intervention, of an issue with their mental stability. human beings are not 'evil' or 'good'. if they were, you could go to an exorcist the same as you would a dermatologist. 

 

i'm not excusing anything in saying that people capable of kidnapping and torturing are certain to have mental illness. it's being realistic. a mental illness can be dealt with, it can be properly addressed. we need to focus more on addressing mental illness before such terrible acts are carried out. i'm not sure exactly how we can prepare to address 'evil'.

Yes I agree it is just how we define things and how we consider things in this country (not sure about other countries).

 

Also I didn't mean evil in the traditional sense of the devil. I mean I think people can be a skewed version of what is right/wrong and it not be from a "mental illness" that can be changed. I think there are people who are of sound mind, but their mind tells them that torture, rape etc... are okay. I think something is wrong with them, but I'm not sure I would call it mental illness for all of them.

 

In psychiatry there is a legitimate debate about whether or not "personality disorders" are "mental illness". That basically sums up my issue as well. I'm not sure they are. I'm not sure that a person who has an antisocial personality disorder for example is necessarily "mentally ill". There is something wrong with them but I just wouldn't necessarily want them grouped with the mentally ill who suffer from depression, bipolar, schizophrenia etc...

Edited January 5, 2017 by bcking

[smilesammich 10,727]

11 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

I think I have a slightly different view of good vs evil. Being evil doesn't mean you're demon possessed (not that I actually believe in the often abusive practice of exorcism), being evil simply means you have no desire whatsoever to be a good person in the terms of wanting to maim, torture, murder, abuse, and cause horrific suffering etc. The person's heart is full of nothing but hatred and greed. We unfortunately cannot prepare to address evil. It's always existed; what we can do is try to raise our children to live to a higher moral standard, to be a good person, and recognize if there are truly early signs of mental illness and seek treatment. For a person such as him, I don't think there is truly any cure or rehabilitation. That's just how I look at it... don't have any hopeful viewpoint of such individuals.

see i have a hard time with this because if you have a normal person who loses their desire to be a good person and opts to maim, torture, murder, abuse etc, well -there's something wrong with them. and it isn't their heart, it's a misfiring of the brain or some lack of chemical. probably always a combination of biological and environmental, but we can't deny the biological as the culprit because it feels like an excuse. i don't have any hope for dylan roof because he went too far and all we know how to do for a person too far gone is to lock them up or kill them, but i do have hope for anyone who might look at dylan roof and not see what the big deal is about his ideals or might even agree with his ideals but feel confident they would never take a life because of those ideals. 

[bcking 3,157]

5 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

see i have a hard time with this because if you have a normal person who loses their desire to be a good person and opts to maim, torture, murder, abuse etc, well -there's something wrong with them. and it isn't their heart, it's a misfiring of the brain or some lack of chemical. probably always a combination of biological and environmental, but we can't deny the biological as the culprit because it feels like an excuse. i don't have any hope for dylan roof because he went too far and all we know how to do for a person too far gone is to lock them up or kill them, but i do have hope for anyone who might look at dylan roof and not see what the big deal is about his ideals or might even agree with his ideals but feel confident they would never take a life because of those ideals. 

It may not be what Yuna is talking about, but for example an antisocial personality disorder does not just appear at age 25. These aren't people who were "once good" and then suddenly they are evil and maim/torture etc... If it is new at age 25-30 then yes I think that is something work investigating.

 

Antisocial personality disorder (AKA sociopaths) almost always starts as conduct disorder in children. So kids who enjoy catching wild animals and skinning them/torturing them just for pleasure. Kids who light fires just to "watch it burn" etc... Not all of them grow up to be bad but usually if you have someone who has APD in their 20's they typically have a history of problems in their youth as well. It isn't a sudden thing.