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The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.

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The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.

8:45 PM - 6 Nov 2012
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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/266038556504494082?lang=en

I have to say I agree with the Donald on this one. As Hillary's popular vote lead climbs to 2.8 million, I don't blame Trump for doing a flip flop. I think the flip flop, like the hair, is going to become a Trump trademark.

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I too was against the Electoral College before the election, just like many other Americans.

After Trump won it was pointed out how genius of a system it was and how smart our Founding Fathers were.

God Bless America

I know the electoral college will confirm Trump, but the coolest part if they didn't would be watching you guys' heads explode.

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I know the electoral college will confirm Trump, but the coolest part if they didn't would be watching you guys' heads explode.

Us Trump supporters are a happy bunch, We and Donald Trump are living the American Dream, A underdog comes out of nowhere and wins. This is why Trump Victory is so historic. He is by definition what makes America great.

It's going to be an exciting 4 years in the USA.

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I would not say he flip flopped, I saw him in an interview(I believe the 60 minutes one) right after the elections and he said even though that's how he won he still doesn't like the system. BTW I actually like the system and did before too. I think it has many advantages and I don't think the popular vote alone should be looked at in such a large country comprised of so many states. When you look at how many counties he won(and I would say the same if it was Clinton), and the majority of states, I don't think large populations of 20 cities in the country should control election results when it would affect so many others with a completely different lifestyle. BTW a few weeks ago they were saying without CA, Trump has the popular vote too. I don't know if that has changed or not but I do think it proves a point, and the point is not that CA doesn't matter, but when you have ultra liberal, large cities like LA(or NY or others for that matter) they alone should not decide what goes on in middle america.

I remember having this conversation not long after the elections in a different thread here and a few of us agreed that while the system as a whole should remain, we're definitely not opposed to changes such as making it more proportional and not winner take all, kinda like the Maine example.

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Us Trump supporters are a happy bunch, We and Donald Trump are living the American Dream, A underdog comes out of nowhere and wins. This is why Trump Victory is so historic. He is by definition what makes America great.

It's going to be an exciting 4 years in the USA.

8 years. I agree with the rest.

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If the Electoral College worked the way the Founding Fathers intended it to, Donald Trump would not be POTUS.

I admit I am not a constitutional scholar, but how else would it have worked and still be tied to the results of the 51 individual elections held in each state? I could see electors being allocated by congressional district results and removing the 100 electoral votes allotted to senator seats, but I think Trump may have still won, however I have not done the analysis.

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I know the electoral college will confirm Trump, but the coolest part if they didn't would be watching you guys' heads explode.

well heads exploding and lots of Butt Hurt has been predicted here before. Recently as a matter of fact. Turned out to be a accurate prediction LOL

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I admit I am not a constitutional scholar, but how else would it have worked and still be tied to the results of the 51 individual elections held in each state? I could see electors being allocated by congressional district results and removing the 100 electoral votes allotted to senator seats, but I think Trump may have still won, however I have not done the analysis.

Because the Founders did not trust the general public to make voting decisions for themselves, instead this is why we vote for 'electors' instead of the President directly. That being said in the Founders time only certain individuals were supposed to be voting in the first place (wise, educated, white, landowners) - not the sort of thing we'd ever imagine our elections being today. Rather hypocritical and harsh of course, but they did recognize that an uninformed populace did not make the best decisions. The Electors too were supposed to be among those wise individuals, of highest moral character, and their purpose was not to offer up a carte blanche to the 'will of the people', or tow a party line in that regard. They were supposed to make a very heavy decision and use their best judgment in assessing who their actual vote would go towards. They recognized people often made horrible decisions as to their choice of leader, and an elector was to be the safeguard against pitchforks, demagoguery, exploitation, dictators, foreign influence, and popular easily-swayed sentiment. Each elector was to be a man of the people and understand very clearly the citizens he represented in his state. This of course doesn't seem fair in how we would think of a democracy, but the Founders were clear that a direct democracy or referendum democracy was not to be our thing. A republic afterall, often butts heads with our modern-day thinking of how politics and government should be. Had things been exactly as the Founders intended, many of our Presidents may well have never been so. Certainly not Trump or even Hillary either. Republicans and Democrats can both love and hate the EC as much as they please when it gives the result that they want, but again if it worked the way it was supposed to, things would be very different indeed.

Edited by yuna628

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I would not say he flip flopped, I saw him in an interview(I believe the 60 minutes one) right after the elections and he said even though that's how he won he still doesn't like the system. BTW I actually like the system and did before too. I think it has many advantages and I don't think the popular vote alone should be looked at in such a large country comprised of so many states. When you look at how many counties he won(and I would say the same if it was Clinton), and the majority of states, I don't think large populations of 20 cities in the country should control election results when it would affect so many others with a completely different lifestyle. BTW a few weeks ago they were saying without CA, Trump has the popular vote too. I don't know if that has changed or not but I do think it proves a point, and the point is not that CA doesn't matter, but when you have ultra liberal, large cities like LA(or NY or others for that matter) they alone should not decide what goes on in middle america.

I remember having this conversation not long after the elections in a different thread here and a few of us agreed that while the system as a whole should remain, we're definitely not opposed to changes such as making it more proportional and not winner take all, kinda like the Maine example.

You are correct when you said without California then Clinton would have lost the popular vote, and that is why we have the electoral college. Here in California she beat Trump by 4 million votes overall, so without California she would have definitely lost the popular vote as well.

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Because the Founders did not trust the general public to make voting decisions for themselves, instead this is why we vote for 'electors' instead of the President directly. That being said in the Founders time only certain individuals were supposed to be voting in the first place (wise, educated, white, landowners) - not the sort of thing we'd ever imagine our elections being today. Rather hypocritical and harsh of course, but they did recognize that an uninformed populace did not make the best decisions. The Electors too were supposed to be among those wise individuals, of highest moral character, and their purpose was not to offer up a carte blanche to the 'will of the people', or tow a party line in that regard. They were supposed to make a very heavy decision and use their best judgment in assessing who their actual vote would go towards. They recognized people often made horrible decisions as to their choice of leader, and an elector was to be the safeguard against pitchforks, demagoguery, exploitation, dictators, foreign influence, and popular easily-swayed sentiment. Each elector was to be a man of the people and understand very clearly the citizens he represented in his state. This of course doesn't seem fair in how we would think of a democracy, but the Founders were clear that a direct democracy or referendum democracy was not to be our thing. A republic afterall, often butts heads with our modern-day thinking of how politics and government should be. Had things been exactly as the Founders intended, many of our Presidents may well have never been so. Certainly not Trump or even Hillary either.

I thought you were going to have something interesting to post. Guess not.

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I thought you were going to have something interesting to post. Guess not.

Sorry you find Constitutional History uninteresting. Learning isn't for everyone. (F)

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