Ohio bill restricting abortions to before a heartbeat is heard

[smilesammich 10,727]

when I said I was pro choice with limitations, you said no. I was just trying to clarify. So when do you think the cutoff should be. 3 weeks . 1 month ??

and as i responded at that time, i was speaking explicitly of the ohio bill. listen when i try to clarify for you. as i was saying above, i spent years of my childhood being emotionally manipulated and brainwashed by prolifers. i prefer to leave all my emotions out of it and consider the abortion strictly as a medical procedure. if i ain't having one, it ain't my business. helps that i don't believe that the majority of women are chomping at the bit to get abortions at 8 months gestation as a form of birth control.

Edited December 8, 2016 by smilesammich

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

Sorry, to clarify, you cannot murder a fetus under the common law. Statutes may define otherwise -- states may choose whether or not to classify feticide as murder, or even as a homicide. I should have given better context here, which is really only in relation to abortion as murder. Murder still requires malice aforethought and an unlawful killing. Abortion is not an unlawful killing*. Therefore, abortion is not the murder of a fetus.

For now.

*Some restrictions apply, please check fine print and your menstruation chart.

Edited December 8, 2016 by elmcitymaven

[OriZ 3,157]

the only opinion stemming from 'feelings' is yours, oriz.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/02/29/medical-ethicists-propose-after-birth-abortion-law_n_1309985.html

http://liveactionnews.org/abortionists-agree-abortion-is-killing/

http://thesurvivaldoctor.com/2013/02/07/when-does-life-begin-medical-experts-debate-abortion-issue/

and you're considering late term abortions as a woman deciding she no longer wants to be pregnant and terminating. the post i made previously disputes that is normally the case when late term abortions are used. this idea that there are scads of women walking around getting knocked up indiscriminately and waiting till a week before their due date to have the child 'ripped from their bodies' is a fallacy. it's peddled by extreme christian prolifers who, in my opinion, emotionally and mentally abuse plenty of living children under their 'instruction' with their propaganda.

You are making an assumption that I believe something I never even said I believe. In fact, in a previous discussion about this issue I myself mentioned that I believe it was 2% of abortions that are done after 20 weeks. So I'm not saying that they wait till a week before. I'm just saying those who do, I cannot agree with, and do not think what they are doing is any different than if they waited till after pregnancy to do it. I also of course believe that if the health of mom or baby is at risk, then it doesn't matter what week it is.

when I said I was pro choice with limitations, you said no. I was just trying to clarify. So when do you think the cutoff should be. 3 weeks . 1 month ??

Holy moly naitch I believe you are the first to get a no out of her on that one. This is a historical day on VJ

Edited December 9, 2016 by OriZ

[bcking 3,157]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/02/29/medical-ethicists-propose-after-birth-abortion-law_n_1309985.html

http://liveactionnews.org/abortionists-agree-abortion-is-killing/

http://thesurvivaldoctor.com/2013/02/07/when-does-life-begin-medical-experts-debate-abortion-issue/

You are making an assumption that I believe something I never even said I believe. In fact, in a previous discussion about this issue I myself mentioned that I believe it was 2% of abortions that are done after 20 weeks. So I'm not saying that they wait till a week before. I'm just saying those who do, I cannot agree with, and do not think what they are doing is any different than if they waited till after pregnancy to do it. I also of course believe that if the health of mom or baby is at risk, then it doesn't matter what week it is.

Holy moly naitch I believe you are the first to get a no out of her on that one. This is a historical day on VJ

Of the 2% of abortions that happen after 20-22 weeks I can almost guarantee a good 90% of those or more are not about a woman "choosing" to terminate just because they "don't want the baby". If you want to talk about "a week before", even for lethal conditions it almost never happens that late.

You can't think about these things in a vacuum. A woman who is a week before delivery doesn't just randomly decide "hey you know what, don't want this anymore". It just isn't reasonable. Unless there are other circumstances, it just isn't practical and therefore the amount of times it happens is incredibly small. I've never even heard of a single case requesting it to be done, let alone actually going through it.

Most of the time when there is a discussion about not keeping a baby when the woman is term it is about lethal conditions, and in those cases the woman delivers like normal, but the medical team agrees to just not provide any resuscitative efforts. I guess there may be situations where a woman delivers earlier in the case of a lethal condition just to finish the pregnancy sooner. That isn't an abortion. That is just a crappy situation.

I can almost guarantee with certainty that the cases of just a woman deciding not to keep an infant past 20 weeks occurs in the 20-24 weeks at most. Beyond that unless the woman really just didn't know she was pregnant and so she didn't have long to decide, it just would have come up earlier in the pregnancy.

[OriZ 3,157]

Of the 2% of abortions that happen after 20-22 weeks I can almost guarantee a good 90% of those or more are not about a woman "choosing" to terminate just because they "don't want the baby". If you want to talk about "a week before", even for lethal conditions it almost never happens that late.

You can't think about these things in a vacuum. A woman who is a week before delivery doesn't just randomly decide "hey you know what, don't want this anymore". It just isn't reasonable. Unless there are other circumstances, it just isn't practical and therefore the amount of times it happens is incredibly small. I've never even heard of a single case requesting it to be done, let alone actually going through it.

Most of the time when there is a discussion about not keeping a baby when the woman is term it is about lethal conditions, and in those cases the woman delivers like normal, but the medical team agrees to just not provide any resuscitative efforts. I guess there may be situations where a woman delivers earlier in the case of a lethal condition just to finish the pregnancy sooner. That isn't an abortion. That is just a crappy situation.

I can almost guarantee with certainty that the cases of just a woman deciding not to keep an infant past 20 weeks occurs in the 20-24 weeks at most. Beyond that unless the woman really just didn't know she was pregnant and so she didn't have long to decide, it just would have come up earlier in the pregnancy.

And I never made any claims to the contrary.

Again, the point is whatever small percentage it may be, it does happen, and it is simply not right. To say that because it is a small percentage it is negligible and thus should not be addressed or even thought about is also not right in my opinion. Even 1 case is one too many.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

and as i responded at that time, i was speaking explicitly of the ohio bill. listen when i try to clarify for you. as i was saying above, i spent years of my childhood being emotionally manipulated and brainwashed by prolifers. i prefer to leave all my emotions out of it and consider the abortion strictly as a medical procedure. if i ain't having one, it ain't my business. helps that i don't believe that the majority of women are chomping at the bit to get abortions at 8 months gestation as a form of birth control.

I am not trying to manipulate you as I know that is not possible. I somewhat agree with you. I am just curious if you think there should be a cut off.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/02/29/medical-ethicists-propose-after-birth-abortion-law_n_1309985.html

http://liveactionnews.org/abortionists-agree-abortion-is-killing/

http://thesurvivaldoctor.com/2013/02/07/when-does-life-begin-medical-experts-debate-abortion-issue/

You are making an assumption that I believe something I never even said I believe. In fact, in a previous discussion about this issue I myself mentioned that I believe it was 2% of abortions that are done after 20 weeks. So I'm not saying that they wait till a week before. I'm just saying those who do, I cannot agree with, and do not think what they are doing is any different than if they waited till after pregnancy to do it. I also of course believe that if the health of mom or baby is at risk, then it doesn't matter what week it is.

Holy moly naitch I believe you are the first to get a no out of her on that one. This is a historical day on VJ

Was that a no? Btw I kind of agree with you also

[OriZ 3,157]

so if a woman is 5 days from delivery and decides she doesn't want the child anymore, you are ok with her aborting. Just trying to clarify ?

no. and that doesn't happen.

Good enough as a no for me. Closest to a no you'll ever get outta her I don't agree it doesn't happen but it is extremely rare.

Edited December 9, 2016 by OriZ

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Good enough as a no for me. Closest to a no you'll ever get outta her I don't agree it doesn't happen but it is extremely rare.

But I can't get a when is it ok.Not trying to the usual chest thing, I just wonder when the MDL thinks that line is crossed?

I agree 100% with you the % argument is absurd. I am sure the MDL would not be ok with a small amount of executions being innocent people being explained as, it's ok it's a small number or ,any heinous act for that matter, not trying to open the capital punishment vs abortion rabbit hole.

[bcking 3,157]

Good enough as a no for me. Closest to a no you'll ever get outta her I don't agree it doesn't happen but it is extremely rare.

I'm not completely disagreeing with you, but I have to say I would love to see even one example, or one person with personal knowledge of an example, of that happening. Truly "5 days" before delivery.

Again as a physician I just can't imagine a situation where that would happen unless the woman didn't know she was pregnant. Even then she may want it but I don't know anyone in four states where I've worked where they would do that.

I think more realistically if a woman came in at 39 weeks wanting to terminate after carrying the pregnancy the whole way and she was truly serious, she would need a psych evaluation. Why not bring it up during the 39 other weeks of pregnancy?

[Dakine10 5,452]

But I can't get a when is it ok.Not trying to the usual chest thing, I just wonder when the MDL thinks that line is crossed?

I agree 100% with you the % argument is absurd. I am sure the MDL would not be ok with a small amount of executions being innocent people being explained as, it's ok it's a small number or ,any heinous act for that matter, not trying to open the capital punishment vs abortion rabbit hole.

I'm sure the "MDL" has different opinions on issues. You should stop stereotyping a broad demographic. You know better than that. And you certainly don't like it when people do it to you.

[OriZ 3,157]

But I can't get a when is it ok.Not trying to the usual chest thing, I just wonder when the MDL thinks that line is crossed?

I agree 100% with you the % argument is absurd. I am sure the MDL would not be ok with a small amount of executions being innocent people being explained as, it's ok it's a small number or ,any heinous act for that matter, not trying to open the capital punishment vs abortion rabbit hole.

I'm not completely disagreeing with you, but I have to say I would love to see even one example, or one person with personal knowledge of an example, of that happening. Truly "5 days" before delivery.

Again as a physician I just can't imagine a situation where that would happen unless the woman didn't know she was pregnant. Even then she may want it but I don't know anyone in four states where I've worked where they would do that.

I think more realistically if a woman came in at 39 weeks wanting to terminate after carrying the pregnancy the whole way and she was truly serious, she would need a psych evaluation. Why not bring it up during the 39 other weeks of pregnancy?

I found this to be a pretty troubling read

https://lozierinstitute.org/the-reality-of-late-term-abortion-procedures/

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

I'm sure the "MDL" has different opinions on issues. You should stop stereotyping a broad demographic. You know better than that. And you certainly don't like it when people do it to you.

Actually the MDL much like the MDR is a very small demographic know only to chest. As for stereotyping a broad demographic. I was asking those from the left, that generally support more unrestricted abortion to weigh in.

I would never sterotype BIDWTGS.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Nature Boy Flair

[smilesammich 10,727]

considering the source, it's meant to trouble you and manipulate your feelings.

I found this to be a pretty troubling read

https://lozierinstitute.org/the-reality-of-late-term-abortion-procedures/

[OriZ 3,157]

considering the source, it's meant to trouble you and manipulate your feelings.

I found this to be a pretty troubling read

https://lozierinstitute.org/the-reality-of-late-term-abortion-procedures/

That was predictable. Try again.